Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Build a Bridge, Get Over It

[United Marxist Nations]

And what authority was that?

Presumably the nearest airport.

When you can literally google what (civilian!) planes are flying above you, it seems like an extreme oversight not to at least check that the slow-moving aircraft that matches the profile of an attack aircraft isn't full of tourists.

I mean, it's not like they thought it was an Su-25.

The nearest airport was having a battle fought inside of it, and the next nearest ones were controlled by the Ukrainian military. They thought it was an AN-26, a transport plane, which was carrying paratroopers. They didn't get the AN-26.

[The balkens]

Presumably the nearest airport.

When you can literally google what (civilian!) planes are flying above you, it seems like an extreme oversight not to at least check that the slow-moving aircraft that matches the profile of an attack aircraft isn't full of tourists.

I mean, it's not like they thought it was an Su-25.

The nearest airport was having a battle fought inside of it, and the next nearest ones were controlled by the Ukrainian military. They thought it was an AN-26, a transport plane, which was carrying paratroopers. They didn't get the AN-26.

Instead they got a civilian airliner.

Their fucking fault. Stop defending them just because they just so happen to long for the days that the USSR existed.

[United Marxist Nations]

The nearest airport was having a battle fought inside of it, and the next nearest ones were controlled by the Ukrainian military. They thought it was an AN-26, a transport plane, which was carrying paratroopers. They didn't get the AN-26.

Instead they got a civilian airliner.

Their fucking fault. Stop defending them just because they just so happen to long for the days that the USSR existed.

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

[Estruia]

Instead they got a civilian airliner.

Their fucking fault. Stop defending them just because they just so happen to long for the days that the USSR existed.

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

Everyone except for the Rebels are at fault for the Rebels shooting down a civilian airliner! Up is down, left is right and black is white, in UMN's world!

[The balkens]

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

Everyone except for the Rebels are at fault for the Rebels shooting down a civilian airliner! Up is down, left is right and black is white, in UMN's world!

Apparently russians are never at fault. Always the victim, always the innocent.

Even when they, The rebels, shoot down an airliner.

[The New Lowlands]

Instead they got a civilian airliner.

Their fucking fault. Stop defending them just because they just so happen to long for the days that the USSR existed.

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

How is it my fault that if I declare a piece of the road mine and that I'll shoot anyone who crosses it, that some biker tried to cross it?!

[United Marxist Nations]

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

How is it my fault that if I declare a piece of the road mine and that I'll shoot anyone who crosses it, that some biker tried to cross it?!

Not an accurate comparison, it's more like you declare it yours for a couple months, tell everyone not to go there, when the police come to evict you, you shoot them, and then the police do precisely jack-shit to warn people of the danger.

[United Marxist Nations]

Everyone except for the Rebels are at fault for the Rebels shooting down a civilian airliner! Up is down, left is right and black is white, in UMN's world!

Apparently russians are never at fault. Always the victim, always the innocent.

Even when they, The rebels, shoot down an airliner.

Then an airliner shouldn't have been flying into an area where planes that look like airliners are being used in a conflict against a group known to shoot down said planes that look like airliners. If the situation were reversed (that is, the Ukes shot down an aircraft in an area where they weren't supposed to be), then they also wouldn't be at fault for it. Interestingly enough, they did almost the exact same thing in 2001, and, again, it wasn't really their fault.

[DBJ]

Given that aircrafts have a transponder, it's be pretty easy to identify one as a civilian.

[United Marxist Nations]

Given that aircrafts have a transponder, it's be pretty easy to identify one as a civilian.

IIRC, you have to contact the plane to get the transponder code. And they don't always respond to non-Air Traffic Controllers (see the KAL 007 incident in which the plane completely ignored the Soviets).

[Mister B]

Apparently russians are never at fault. Always the victim, always the innocent.

Even when they, The rebels, shoot down an airliner.

Then an airliner shouldn't have been flying into an area where planes that look like airliners are being used in a conflict against a group known to shoot down said planes that look like airliners. If the situation were reversed (that is, the Ukes shot down an aircraft in an area where they weren't supposed to be), then they also wouldn't be at fault for it. Interestingly enough, they did almost the exact same thing in 2001, and, again, it wasn't really their fault.

More than a hundred civilian aircraft were flying through that airspace daily in the week leading up to the shoot down. The people operating the weapon were presumably aware of this. The fact that they then went on to fire at an aircraft they had not properly identified, knowing it could be any one of the hundreds of airliners still in the area, is not a simple mistake, its unfathomably reckless negligence.

[Estruia]

Given that aircrafts have a transponder, it's be pretty easy to identify one as a civilian.

IIRC, you have to contact the plane to get the transponder code. And they don't always respond to non-Air Traffic Controllers (see the KAL 007 incident in which the plane completely ignored the Soviets).

So, you're admitting that the Rebels are at fault, for firing on a plane they didn't contact or attempt to identify. Yet, you're still trying to defend them and act as if they aren't at fault? The lengths you will go to just to justify the actions of the Rebels are absolutely astounding.

[United Marxist Nations]

IIRC, you have to contact the plane to get the transponder code. And they don't always respond to non-Air Traffic Controllers (see the KAL 007 incident in which the plane completely ignored the Soviets).

So, you're admitting that the Rebels are at fault, for firing on a plane they didn't contact or attempt to identify. Yet, you're still trying to defend them and act as if they aren't at fault? The lengths you will go to just to justify the actions of the Rebels are absolutely astounding.

So, I take it a Marshal Estruia would tell his enemies he is going to shoot them before he does so?

[United Marxist Nations]

Yes, because it's the Ukrainian Government's fault that the Rebels are heartless fucks who would intentionally shoot down a commercial airliner filled with innocent civilians. OBVIOUSLY, EVERYTHING IS KIEV'S FAULT!

Except that we know they didn't *intentionally* shoot down a commercial airliner. As intercepted transmissions show, they thought it was a Ukrainian transport plane (of which they had already shot down a couple). And, yes, Kyiv is responsible for its own air security.

*Typo that I just now noticed*

Just noticed my possibly misunderstanding-creating typo.

[Estruia]

So, you're admitting that the Rebels are at fault, for firing on a plane they didn't contact or attempt to identify. Yet, you're still trying to defend them and act as if they aren't at fault? The lengths you will go to just to justify the actions of the Rebels are absolutely astounding.

So, I take it a Marshal Estruia would tell his enemies he is going to shoot them before he does so?

If I was going to fire on an aircraft whose origin I was unsure of, I would do everything within my power to identify said aircraft. That's what we do in the civilized world, UMN. Firing first and asking questions later is what leads to these sorts of fuck ups. Had they made contact with the aircraft and stated that the aircraft would be fired upon unless they made their identity known, then this whole thing could have been avoided. But, unfortunately, instead of being competent weapons operators, we're forced to deal with Russian(read poorly)-trained fucks controlling a very deadly piece of equipment.

If you want to keep making excuses for the Rebels, go for it. I certainly won't stop you, but don't sit there and place the blame on the dead. It's absolutely disgusting of you, because you certainly would not be singing the same tune in the roles were reversed; if Kiev shot down a rebel civilian passenger plane.

[Costa Fierro]

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

That's like saying how is it the rapist's fault if their victim were dressed in provocative clothing and were wandering the streets at night? They're asking for trouble, right? Don't blame the rapist, blame the victim.

[United Marxist Nations]

So, I take it a Marshal Estruia would tell his enemies he is going to shoot them before he does so?

If I was going to fire on an aircraft whose origin I was unsure of, I would do everything within my power to identify said aircraft. That's what we do in the civilized world, UMN. Firing first and asking questions later is what leads to these sorts of fuck ups. Had they made contact with the aircraft and stated that the aircraft would be fired upon unless they made their identity known, then this whole thing could have been avoided. But, unfortunately, instead of being competent weapons operators, we're forced to deal with Russian(read poorly)-trained fucks controlling a very deadly piece of equipment.

If you want to keep making excuses for the Rebels, go for it. I certainly won't stop you, but don't sit there and place the blame on the dead. It's absolutely disgusting of you, because you certainly would not be singing the same tune in the roles were reversed; if Kiev shot down a rebel civilian passenger plane.

When did I blame the dead? They had no control over the flight path, and most probably weren't even aware of it.

[New Reutlingen]

Is this Russian-Ukraine bullshit still going on or has this passed?

[Socialist Czechia]

Is this Russian-Ukraine bullshit still going on or has this passed?

first Westerners must accept Russian sphere of influence and stop to threaten them with more and more NATO/'Murican bases all around Russia.

in 1990s, russia had no choice but to accept EU's and NATO's expansions to their own borders, but no more.
NATO won't control Sevastopol base, EU won't control Ukraine.

[The balkens]

Is this Russian-Ukraine bullshit still going on or has this passed?

first Westerners must accept Russian sphere of influence and stop to threaten them with more and more NATO/'Murican bases all around Russia.

in 1990s, russia had no choice but to accept EU's and NATO's expansions to their own borders, but no more.
NATO won't control Sevastopol base, EU won't control Ukraine.

Ha. Ha. No.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Is this Russian-Ukraine bullshit still going on or has this passed?

first Westerners must accept Russian sphere of influence

Sure, just as soon as you accept that the entire world is America's sphere of influence because freedom.

[Seraven]

Is this Russian-Ukraine bullshit still going on or has this passed?

Still going on until the time when Russia controls the world.

[Estruia]

Random side-note: Who is going to contact the mods to make a new Ukraine Megathread?

[Socialist Czechia]

first Westerners must accept Russian sphere of influence

Sure, just as soon as you accept that the entire world is America's sphere of influence because freedom.

you mean Wall Street's sphere of influence, because only market, not state profits from this 'american sphere'.
because how exactly common 'murican citizens profits from like thousand military bases, 'humanitarian' carpet bombings and costly invasions to like dozen countries?

russian sphere of inluence, on the other hand, is just meant locally, to defend their own borders, since Westerners never showed any reason to trust them.
they always allied Russia just to save their own asses, like when Russia kinda destroyed both Napoleon and Hitler. they never showed any respect to Russian Empire or USSR.

[United Marxist Nations]

How is it their fault that a stupid airline put its plane over a warzone where several military transport planes had already been shot down, and in whcih the rebels had said that they would assume all planes were military ones (from their declaration of restricted airspace)? Hence their shock that it wasn't (e.g. "Why the fuck were they in our sky!?")

That's like saying how is it the rapist's fault if their victim were dressed in provocative clothing and were wandering the streets at night? They're asking for trouble, right? Don't blame the rapist, blame the victim.

Again, when did I blame the people on the plane? I blamed the people who knew of the imminent danger to all air-traffic (i.e. Kyiv and Malaysia Airlines).