UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Philjia]

i still think the title should be "hope is a lie"

"Things can only get better?"

[Imperializt Russia]

i still think the title should be "hope is a lie"

Suggestions will be considered and filtered to personal preference and personal preference alone.

[Vassenor]

John Major on the case for a second referendum

In a nutshell: Brexit is turning into a textbook case of tyranny by majority and the Remain voters should not be denied a say on how this is taken forward.

[Val Halla]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

[Vassenor]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

It *should* have, but then Nigel wouldn't have been happy. Even though he said that Remain could only claim victory with a supermajority.

[Souseiseki]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/17/daily-m ... ialnetwork

it's funny because it's true

e: sorry """possibly"""

[Souseiseki]

lol know how i always used to say people like farage should just fuck off to america where they'd feel more comfortable

he's fucking off to america

e: but seriously ex-banker on russian payroll tricked millions into voting for his interests then disappeared the minute he won then fucked off to another country before things got sour good job guys. you did it. the revolution against the elite is complete.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

[The Blaatschapen]

You can't be the only British mod?

I'm not.

But I might be the only one who A) regularly posts in NSG and B) has any particular interest in this thread.

You don't need me, Fartsniffage. Fly, my little ones - be free!

While I'm not British, I do have an interest in this thread.

Then again, I prefer not to have mods OPing all kinds of generic threads.

[Souseiseki]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

it has nothing to do with europhile minority. there's a reason that pretty much every country or at least a very sizeable number have this kind of limit on their referendums or constitutional amendments. that it would apply in this case is just another test case among many of the kind of shit that starts happening when you change the country forever based on a margin of error victory.

[Philjia]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

No, it's simple, if the result was less than a 2:3 majority we just establish a time share agreement; we're in the EU from Sunday to Wednesday lunchtime, and out from Wednesday lunchtime to Saturday.

[Dumb Ideologies]

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

it has nothing to do with europhile minority. there's a reason that pretty much every country or at least a very sizeable number have this kind of limit on their referendums or constitutional amendments. that it would apply in this case is just another test case among many of the kind of shit that starts happening when you change the country forever based on a margin of error victory.

The reason why a number of systems include a tyranny of the minority in rule-changing may also have something to do with the unwillingness of those who set up the original framework to have the system altered in a manner contrary to their beliefs or interests.

[Dumb Ideologies]

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

No, it's simple, if the result was less than a 2:3 majority we just establish a time share agreement; we're in the EU from Sunday to Wednesday lunchtime, and out from Wednesday lunchtime to Saturday.

I prefer the model where all parts of buildings above a certain height are deemed to be outside of the EU.

I call this model the "loft Brexit".

[Souseiseki]

it has nothing to do with europhile minority. there's a reason that pretty much every country or at least a very sizeable number have this kind of limit on their referendums or constitutional amendments. that it would apply in this case is just another test case among many of the kind of shit that starts happening when you change the country forever based on a margin of error victory.

The reason why a number of systems include a tyranny of the minority in rule-changing may also have something to do with the unwillingness of those who set up the original framework to have the system altered in a manner contrary to their beliefs or interests.

are you sure it isn't because if the rain or waiting a week or two could plausibly affect the result you don't have a strong enough case?

who said that rule always works in favour of the people that set up the original framework?

[Vassenor]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

[Imperializt Russia]

Shouldn't this sort of decision have been decided by the 2/3rd thing?

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

tfw "the europhile minority" that is the 18-35s will be the only ones who will actually live to see an EU Turkey.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The reason why a number of systems include a tyranny of the minority in rule-changing may also have something to do with the unwillingness of those who set up the original framework to have the system altered in a manner contrary to their beliefs or interests.

are you sure it isn't because if the rain or waiting a week or two could plausibly affect the result you don't have a strong enough case?

who said that rule always works in favour of the people that set up the original framework?

If you can't manage to win a majority despite the government sending out publicly-funded propaganda leaflets and warning of Brexocalypse and a punishment budget if the government option was defied, maybe you don't have a strong enough case. The cards should not be stacked even further on one side.

[Souseiseki]

are you sure it isn't because if the rain or waiting a week or two could plausibly affect the result you don't have a strong enough case?

who said that rule always works in favour of the people that set up the original framework?

If you can't manage to win a majority despite the government sending out publicly-funded propaganda leaflets and warning of Brexocalypse and a punishment budget if the government option was defied, maybe you don't have a strong enough case. The cards should not be stacked even further on one side.

that's not a real counter-argument and you know it. the onus is on those suggesting massive change to prove it is necessary enough to get that amount of people behind it. again, this isn't just a brexit thing, it's a general referendum thing.

[Dumb Ideologies]

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

We can't both stay in and leave the EU. You had a say on the issue. We all did. It's either a case of respecting the wishes of the majority of those who voted or the minority of those who voted. You are of course entitled to view it as a mistake, but you don't have the right to get the result you want when you didn't win.

[Vassenor]

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

We can't both stay in and leave the EU. You had a say on the issue. We all did. It's either a case of respecting the wishes of the majority of those who voted or the minority of those who voted. You are of course entitled to view it as a mistake, but you don't have the right to get the result you want when you didn't win.

Really? I don't recall my ballot paper asking exactly what I wanted to get from an exit.

[Dumb Ideologies]

If you can't manage to win a majority despite the government sending out publicly-funded propaganda leaflets and warning of Brexocalypse and a punishment budget if the government option was defied, maybe you don't have a strong enough case. The cards should not be stacked even further on one side.

that's not a real counter-argument and you know it. the onus is on those suggesting massive change to prove it is necessary enough to get that amount of people behind it. again, this isn't just a brexit thing, it's a general referendum thing.

The government and most of the opposition campaigning directly against it was enough of a supplementary hurdle. We managed to get the necessary amount to get it through and that is a democratic achievement that should not be underestimated or cast aside by minority tyranny.

[Souseiseki]

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

We can't both stay in and leave the EU. You had a say on the issue. We all did. It's either a case of respecting the wishes of the majority of those who voted or the minority of those who voted. You are of course entitled to view it as a mistake, but you don't have the right to get the result you want when you didn't win.

what are the wishes of the majority who voted? like, what are their actual wishes? what kind of deal do they want?

you can't give a real answer to this, and again, i suspect you know it.

[Imperializt Russia]

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

We can't both stay in and leave the EU. You had a say on the issue. We all did. It's either a case of respecting the wishes of the majority of those who voted or the minority of those who voted. You are of course entitled to view it as a mistake, but you don't have the right to get the result you want when you didn't win.

You can entirely "respect the views of the Leave vote" without leaving.

Few people wanted to leave because "the EU is an unremitted evil". People wanted to leave because of the negative impacts they perceived the EU to have; people wanted to leave to protest the status quo; people voted leave to protest the government.

[The Nihilistic view]

No. The Europhile minority should not hold the destiny of the rest of the country hostage.

So you're saying people should have no right to a say in their own future just because they have different opinions to you?

I forgot DI said a while back that only leavers should be allowed to vote.

[Souseiseki]

that's not a real counter-argument and you know it. the onus is on those suggesting massive change to prove it is necessary enough to get that amount of people behind it. again, this isn't just a brexit thing, it's a general referendum thing.

The government and most of the opposition campaigning directly against it was enough of a supplementary hurdle. We managed to get the necessary amount to get it through and that is a democratic achievement that should not be underestimated or cast aside by minority tyranny.

the hurdles you had to go through are irrelevant. there should have never been a referendum without a strict 2/3 majority and minimum turnout specifically to prevent the exact kind of bullshit that is going on now.