Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[USS Monitor]

See this would be fine and dandy if these people would die in their homes. But nope. They're crowding out gunshot victims at ER's.

If one of my family members died a preventable death as a result of our nation bending over backwards to accommodate these selfish morons, I'm not sure how I could move on.

We should make a best effort to save every one of these people, but I really don't understand why people who did their duty and got vaccinated should be sacrificed. It goes against the whole "freedom and personal responsibility" message these people like to push.

^This.

If people want to argue that getting vaccinated is a "deeply personal choice," then the antivaxxers should be ready to accept deeply personal consequences, not dump it on everyone else.

[Keira]

If one of my family members died a preventable death as a result of our nation bending over backwards to accommodate these selfish morons, I'm not sure how I could move on.

We should make a best effort to save every one of these people, but I really don't understand why people who did their duty and got vaccinated should be sacrificed. It goes against the whole "freedom and personal responsibility" message these people like to push.

^This.

If people want to argue that getting vaccinated is a "deeply personal choice," then the antivaxxers should be ready to accept deeply personal consequences, not dump it on everyone else.

What about folk who don't fit in either of those two very conveniently neat and simple categories? What would you like to do with them, hm?

[San Lumen]

https://www.mcknights.com/news/clinical ... ge-trials/

Pfizer, Merck start testing COVID prevention pills in late-stage trials

[Vassenor]

^This.

If people want to argue that getting vaccinated is a "deeply personal choice," then the antivaxxers should be ready to accept deeply personal consequences, not dump it on everyone else.

What about folk who don't fit in either of those two very conveniently neat and simple categories?

So who is proposing serious consequences for people who are medically unable to get vaccinated?

[Keira]

What about folk who don't fit in either of those two very conveniently neat and simple categories?

So who is proposing serious consequences for people who are medically unable to get vaccinated?

I dunno, you tell me.

[Luminesa]

https://www.mcknights.com/news/clinical-news/pfizer-merck-start-testing-covid-prevention-pills-in-late-stage-trials/

Pfizer, Merck start testing COVID prevention pills in late-stage trials

Oooooh a pill!

[Luminesa]

See this would be fine and dandy if these people would die in their homes. But nope. They're crowding out gunshot victims at ER's.

If one of my family members died a preventable death as a result of our nation bending over backwards to accommodate these selfish morons, I'm not sure how I could move on.

We should make a best effort to save every one of these people, but I really don't understand why people who did their duty and got vaccinated should be sacrificed. It goes against the whole "freedom and personal responsibility" message these people like to push.

It's freedom for the people who don't want responsibilities.

[USS Monitor]

^This.

If people want to argue that getting vaccinated is a "deeply personal choice," then the antivaxxers should be ready to accept deeply personal consequences, not dump it on everyone else.

What about folk who don't fit in either of those two very conveniently neat and simple categories?

People who can't get vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason should be treated with the same care and respect as vaccinated people. It is not a choice for them.

Everyone that can get vaccinated, but chose not to? They made their bed. They can lie in it.

[Keira]

What about folk who don't fit in either of those two very conveniently neat and simple categories?

People who can't get vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason should be treated with the same care and respect as vaccinated people. It is not a choice for them.

Everyone that can get vaccinated, but chose not to? They made their bed. They can lie in it.

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

[Vassenor]

So who is proposing serious consequences for people who are medically unable to get vaccinated?

I dunno, you tell me.

You're the person who brought up the people who aren't jabbed who don't fit into the "refuses for moral reasons" category. You don't get to deflect when actually pushed for alternatives.

[Keira]

I dunno, you tell me.

You're the person who brought up the people who aren't jabbed who don't fit into the "refuses for moral reasons" category. You don't get to deflect when actually pushed for alternatives.

You're just confusing me, I dunno what you're saying. Like, yes, I'm the person you're describing, I know. And what are you? I've no idea what you're bringing to this conversation right now.

[Vassenor]

You're the person who brought up the people who aren't jabbed who don't fit into the "refuses for moral reasons" category. You don't get to deflect when actually pushed for alternatives.

You're just confusing me, I dunno what you're saying. Like, yes, I'm the person you're describing, I know. And what are you? I've no idea what you're bringing to this conversation right now.

You asked about people who don't fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons" in a post talking about what we should do with people who fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons". I asked you to point out where those people came up in the first place and you started getting defensive.

[Kowani]

People who can't get vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason should be treated with the same care and respect as vaccinated people. It is not a choice for them.

Everyone that can get vaccinated, but chose not to? They made their bed. They can lie in it.

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

write to your city council
ik chicago is doing door-to-door vaccinations, there's probably some other jurisdictions that are

[Keira]

You're just confusing me, I dunno what you're saying. Like, yes, I'm the person you're describing, I know. And what are you? I've no idea what you're bringing to this conversation right now.

You asked about people who don't fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons" in a post talking about what we should do with people who fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons". I asked you to point out where those people came up in the first place and you started getting defensive.

I'm neither getting defensive nor deflecting. Not everything is super-intentional, ultra-evil, DEBATE TACTIX™.

I think you're projecting, since you seem to be the sly/deceitful one here. Am I not allowed to talk about something unless it's been mentioned? Says who and why should I care? It's completely fair to come into a black-and-white conversation and ask or remind people about the greys. If the conversation was about "women should be this way, and men should be that way", it would be completely fair and reasonable for me to come in and say "what about non-binary folk?"

[Luminesa]

People who can't get vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason should be treated with the same care and respect as vaccinated people. It is not a choice for them.

Everyone that can get vaccinated, but chose not to? They made their bed. They can lie in it.

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

Once they get that pill, maybe you can order them from your pharmacy?

[Keira]

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

Once they get that pill, maybe you can order them from your pharmacy?

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

write to your city council
ik chicago is doing door-to-door vaccinations, there's probably some other jurisdictions that are

People! It was just an example, I don't have agoraphobia. Besides, I got Covid a few days ago, it's kind of too late.

[Vassenor]

You asked about people who don't fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons" in a post talking about what we should do with people who fit into the category of "refusing for moral reasons". I asked you to point out where those people came up in the first place and you started getting defensive.

I'm neither getting defensive nor deflecting. Not everything is super-intentional, ultra-evil, DEBATE TACTIX™.

I think you're projecting, since you seem to be the sly/deceitful one here. Am I not allowed to talk about something unless it's been mentioned? Says who and why should I care? It's completely fair to come into a black-and-white conversation and ask or remind people about the greys. If the conversation was about "women should be this way, and men should be that way", it would be completely fair and reasonable for me to come in and say "what about non-binary folk?"

Nobody said this was a black or white situation though. We just talked about one specific point on the spectrum, and then you piped up with a whataboutism.

[Keira]

I'm neither getting defensive nor deflecting. Not everything is super-intentional, ultra-evil, DEBATE TACTIX™.

I think you're projecting, since you seem to be the sly/deceitful one here. Am I not allowed to talk about something unless it's been mentioned? Says who and why should I care? It's completely fair to come into a black-and-white conversation and ask or remind people about the greys. If the conversation was about "women should be this way, and men should be that way", it would be completely fair and reasonable for me to come in and say "what about non-binary folk?"

Nobody said this was a black or white situation though. We just talked about one specific point on the spectrum, and then you piped up with a whataboutism.

And the deceit continues...

And yet another online debate/conversation quickly turning into a meta-conversation...

I said it was a black-and-white conversation! You were basically talking about how vaccinated people were teh angels (I don't disagree), and how anti-vaxxers deserved what they got (I don't disagree). So, that made me wonder about people who aren't anti-vaxxers yet haven't gotten vaccinated yet - what do they "deserve"? How angelic or devilish are they? MonkaHmm. Even if this is whataboutism, it's completely harmless.

[Kowani]

Once they get that pill, maybe you can order them from your pharmacy?

write to your city council
ik chicago is doing door-to-door vaccinations, there's probably some other jurisdictions that are

People! It was just an example, I don't have agoraphobia. Besides, I got Covid a few days ago, it's kind of too late.

whether or not it applies to you personally is irrelevant to the greater point that there are few legitimate reasons to not get vaccinated besides the "physically can't take it" and "will get fired from work if i have to take time off because of vaccine side effects"
stop it with the "shades of gray" argument tactic (how exactly people with agoraphobia who can't leave their house and so can't spread covid was supposed to be a good point is beyond me)
people who are unvaxxed but not anti-vaxxers can be convinced and moved into the vaccinated category-which they largely have been but they are still equally culpable for the spread

[Keira]

argument tactic

Ah yes, everything's a TACTIC™. Simply and innocently wondering about shit is no longer a possibility, apparently.

This is silly and exhausting. I'm over it. Bye! <- le kiss from a delirious covidzombie heheheh

[Esalia]

argument tactic

Ah yes, everything's a TACTIC™. Simply and innocently wondering about shit is no longer a possibility, apparently.

This is silly and exhausting. I'm over it. Bye! <- le kiss from a delirious covidzombie heheheh

Needlessly homing in on one word in a many-word post and ignoring the point that there isn't much of this grey in a mainly black-and-white conversation you're asking about.

[Kowani]

argument tactic

Ah yes, everything's a TACTIC™. Simply and innocently wondering about shit is no longer a possibility, apparently.

This is silly and exhausting. I'm over it. Bye! <- le kiss from a delirious covidzombie heheheh

this would be a better deflection if the past year and a half had not been full of people "innocently wondering about things" or "just asking questions" as a way to do everything from cast doubt on vaccines to justify taking horse dewormer
you do not exist independently of societal discourse-and this post here-zooming in on two words to avoid actually engaging with the main thrust of the argument-is very much evidence that you knew very well what you were doing when you started this train
if you're going to be an apologist you could at least be better at hiding it

[Luminesa]

Once they get that pill, maybe you can order them from your pharmacy?

write to your city council
ik chicago is doing door-to-door vaccinations, there's probably some other jurisdictions that are

People! It was just an example, I don't have agoraphobia. Besides, I got Covid a few days ago, it's kind of too late.

Well just drink a lot of fluids and stay home, I’m not sure what else you want.

[Keira]

I’m not sure what else you want.

A trans-inclusive patriarchal boyfriend, a big house in Northumberland, lots of money, and lots of motivation.

Not being constantly (negatively) judged and misinterpreted on NS would be nice, too.

[Antipatros]

People who can't get vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason should be treated with the same care and respect as vaccinated people. It is not a choice for them.

Everyone that can get vaccinated, but chose not to? They made their bed. They can lie in it.

What counts as a legitimate medical reason? As an example, would someone with agoraphobia who can't bring themselves to leave their house to get vaccinated count?

That's a fair point. Ideally, we want the definition of "medically exempt" to provide good coverage for everyone that cannot safely get vaccinated, while not making so broad that it becomes a loophole for people who simply don't want to get vaccinated. There are certainly many who would exploit such a loophole, if it were available.

I would err on the side of a narrow definition of medically exempt, rather than a broad definition. A panel of medical experts, advocates (for people with x or y condition), and other stake holders should come up with the final definition. The state should make a best effort to accommodate people like in your example. They should send a vaccination team to their home, if that's what's needed to get them vaccinated.