What do you think of Communism

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

My soul sibling in Christ, people are still drones under capitalism. Easily replaceable cogs because that's what corporations and politicians benefit from the most.

What you are describing is more on the lines of corporatism, which is more of a symptom of unregulated capitalism. But at least with a capitalist system, people actually have the opportunity to be more individualistic.

You mean corporatocracy?

Corporatism is the mixed economic ideology of fascism. Frequently confused with Corporatocracy (rule of corporations)

[Ors Might]

My soul sibling in Christ, people are still drones under capitalism. Easily replaceable cogs because that's what corporations and politicians benefit from the most.

What you are describing is more on the lines of corporatism, which is more of a symptom of unregulated capitalism. But at least with a capitalist system, people actually have the opportunity to be more individualistic.

Do they though? How much can you actually explore who you are if you're still struggling to make ends meet on a shitty wage?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

individualists died the most in Auschwitz...

Ok and?

What are you trying to say?

I’d rather not be a cog in the machine for society/the collective under communism and I also would not want to be simple product/customer under capitalism

That "individualism" isn't some supreme ideal that we should all celebrate

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tqCgE-07LDs

Based

[Ifreann]

If there is a human nature, and that human nature means we cannot have a communist society, then it must control our behaviour. Otherwise it wouldn't mean that communism will never work. Therefore it is our nature that caused all those crimes. Otherwise they wouldn't have happened, because our behaviour is controlled by our nature.

Unless our behaviour isn't controlled by our nature, in which case we can make communism work even if it isn't in our nature to do so.

Ok so you’re thinking about this in a black and white nature. Human’s are controlled by their nature, yes. However unlike animals we can control ourself beyond our nature. The reason communism doesn’t work is because it requires everyone to perfectly reject their human nature, which would be impossible without thousands of years of indoctrination, which is a nightmare scenario. Communism works on small scales because a small group of people is more likely to be able to work together in harmony.

Well all of that sounds very silly. It makes no sense to say that communism requires this universal total perfection to function. As if we could have a communist world but if one person were even briefly less than perfectly communist then the whole thing would come crashing down. Nonsense. There's your black and white thinking.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Ok and?

What are you trying to say?

I’d rather not be a cog in the machine for society/the collective under communism and I also would not want to be simple product/customer under capitalism

That "individualism" isn't some supreme ideal that we should all celebrate

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

[Corporate Collective Salvation]

What you are describing is more on the lines of corporatism, which is more of a symptom of unregulated capitalism. But at least with a capitalist system, people actually have the opportunity to be more individualistic.

I see it as capitalism over regulated into cronyism that squeezes the end user down into fewer and fewer options as the consumer feedback loop is manipulated/corrupted by ideologues in big business and government picking winners and losers for themselves.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Ok so you’re thinking about this in a black and white nature. Human’s are controlled by their nature, yes. However unlike animals we can control ourself beyond our nature. The reason communism doesn’t work is because it requires everyone to perfectly reject their human nature, which would be impossible without thousands of years of indoctrination, which is a nightmare scenario. Communism works on small scales because a small group of people is more likely to be able to work together in harmony.

Well all of that sounds very silly. It makes no sense to say that communism requires this universal total perfection to function. As if we could have a communist world but if one person were even briefly less than perfectly communist then the whole thing would come crashing down. Nonsense. There's your black and white thinking.

Fair enough. That is a goose maple of black and white thinking on my part. However I really do think communism can only work if everyone is on board with it and shares similar ideas, which would only be ethically possible with small groups of people.

[Ors Might]

Well all of that sounds very silly. It makes no sense to say that communism requires this universal total perfection to function. As if we could have a communist world but if one person were even briefly less than perfectly communist then the whole thing would come crashing down. Nonsense. There's your black and white thinking.

Fair enough. That is a goose maple of black and white thinking on my part. However I really do think communism can only work if everyone is on board with it and shares similar ideas, which would only be ethically possible with small groups of people.

Can't you say the same with any method of organizing society? Ultimately, everything would come crashing down if people decided to not cooperate with each other. That's just obvious.

[Lanansia]

What you are describing is more on the lines of corporatism, which is more of a symptom of unregulated capitalism. But at least with a capitalist system, people actually have the opportunity to be more individualistic.

Do they though? How much can you actually explore who you are if you're still struggling to make ends meet on a shitty wage?

That’s essentially a worst case scenario, and you are ignorantly acting like communism is much better. The average wages are horrible in most communist countries. While the cost of living is also less, that comes with a decrease in quality of life. Not to mention how horrible most communist countries turn out. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, most communist countries get absolutely terrible dictatorships, some of which kill millions. Capitalism is not perfect, but communism is by no means an improvement.

[Ifreann]

That "individualism" isn't some supreme ideal that we should all celebrate

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Well all of that sounds very silly. It makes no sense to say that communism requires this universal total perfection to function. As if we could have a communist world but if one person were even briefly less than perfectly communist then the whole thing would come crashing down. Nonsense. There's your black and white thinking.

Fair enough. That is a goose maple of black and white thinking on my part. However I really do think communism can only work if everyone is on board with it and shares similar ideas, which would only be ethically possible with small groups of people.

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Do they though? How much can you actually explore who you are if you're still struggling to make ends meet on a shitty wage?

That’s essentially a worst case scenario, and you are ignorantly acting like communism is much better. The average wages are horrible in most communist countries. While the cost of living is also less, that comes with a decrease in quality of life. Not to mention how horrible most communist countries turn out. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, most communist countries get absolutely terrible dictatorships, some of which kill millions. Capitalism is not perfect, but communism is by no means an improvement.

Modern capitalism that lives on widespread chattel slavery of untermenschen in the colonies isn't an improvement just because you don't see with your own two eyes the 12 year old digging coltan with her own fingers.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Fair enough. That is a goose maple of black and white thinking on my part. However I really do think communism can only work if everyone is on board with it and shares similar ideas, which would only be ethically possible with small groups of people.

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

Never said/implied that the communist victims of Auschwitz were in the wrong.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Fair enough. That is a goose maple of black and white thinking on my part. However I really do think communism can only work if everyone is on board with it and shares similar ideas, which would only be ethically possible with small groups of people.

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

Large groups of people (like millions of people) sharing very similar ideas is the antithesis of individualism

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The point: The people deciding to work together to survive Auschwitz survived better than the "individualists" who backstabbed their fellow humans in selfish desire for three more seconds before the gas chamber.
And then we have whatever this is:

That "individualism" isn't some supreme ideal that we should all celebrate

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

[Ors Might]

Do they though? How much can you actually explore who you are if you're still struggling to make ends meet on a shitty wage?

That’s essentially a worst case scenario, and you are ignorantly acting like communism is much better. The average wages are horrible in most communist countries. While the cost of living is also less, that comes with a decrease in quality of life. Not to mention how horrible most communist countries turn out. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, most communist countries get absolutely terrible dictatorships, some of which kill millions. Capitalism is not perfect, but communism is by no means an improvement.

Its not a worst case scenario if its reality for millions of people. No amount of "what about communism" is going to change the flaws inherent in capitalism.

[Love Peace and Friendship]

That’s essentially a worst case scenario, and you are ignorantly acting like communism is much better. The average wages are horrible in most communist countries. While the cost of living is also less, that comes with a decrease in quality of life. Not to mention how horrible most communist countries turn out. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, most communist countries get absolutely terrible dictatorships, some of which kill millions. Capitalism is not perfect, but communism is by no means an improvement.

Modern capitalism that lives on widespread chattel slavery of untermenschen in the colonies isn't an improvement just because you don't see with your own two eyes the 12 year old digging coltan with her own fingers.

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

Large groups of people (like millions of people) sharing very similar ideas is the antithesis of individualism

I'm a bit confused on what you guys are talking about. At times you guys seem to be fighting over a rather statist form of communism (hence, the genocide, brutality, and wage slavery in this 'Communism'), and at other times the communism that is supposed to exist feels very... anarchist to say (hence, the fact that society is going to be entirely held by utopian social forces). I suppose it is still somewhat 'authoritarian' for the transition period, but still feels pretty anarchist.

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

That’s essentially a worst case scenario, and you are ignorantly acting like communism is much better. The average wages are horrible in most communist countries. While the cost of living is also less, that comes with a decrease in quality of life. Not to mention how horrible most communist countries turn out. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, most communist countries get absolutely terrible dictatorships, some of which kill millions. Capitalism is not perfect, but communism is by no means an improvement.

Its not a worst case scenario if its reality for millions of people. No amount of "what about communism" is going to change the flaws inherent in capitalism.

But look at how much freedom the Srilankans are enjoying with their ports colonised by chinese capitalists for the next 99 years!
/s

[Ifreann]

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

Never said/implied that the communist victims of Auschwitz were in the wrong.

How much bloodshed will it take to realize that Communism. DOES. NOT. WORK.

---

People who fought for communism were also killed in Nazi concentration camps, and your position seems to be that not only were they in the wrong, they were pursuing a political ideology that can only ever lead to the deaths of millions.

---

Why? Why can't large groups of people share similar ideas?

Large groups of people (like millions of people) sharing very similar ideas is the antithesis of individualism

I didn't ask you to put a name on it, I asked why it can't happen.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

These other guys ardently believe soviet statism is the only "communism" viable ever, while I think soviet statism was a cancerous blight on humanity. And, by the intervention of laissez faire capitalism was transformed into modern russian fascism.

[Senkaku]

leftists through the entire 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries:

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

The point: The people deciding to work together to survive Auschwitz survived better than the "individualists" who backstabbed their fellow humans in selfish desire for three more seconds before the gas chamber.
And then we have whatever this is:

Are you implying that the people who fought for their freedom and individuality and were killed in Auschwitz were in the wrong?

Dawg individualism =/= egoism

[Ors Might]

leftists through the entire 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries:

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

Something something war never changes.

[Love Peace and Friendship]

leftists through the entire 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries:

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

We're gonna bring down another Internationale with this one boys!

Are you arguing for or against a form of communism which exists with a state dominating society or in a society where the state is an unnecessary and then just rid off in an ideal communist society?

These other guys ardently believe soviet statism is the only "communism" viable ever, while I think soviet statism was a cancerous blight on humanity. And, by the intervention of laissez faire capitalism was transformed into modern russian fascism.

Ah, so are you an anarchist or just believe communism as and economic and social system should be implemented in a democratic republic, or something else?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Ah, so are you an anarchist or just believe communism as and economic and social system should be implemented in a democratic republic, or something else?

I'm a despairing, disappointed socialist that eschews all the "dictatorship of the proletariat" stuff. And convinced that thanks to laissez faire capitalism, the next mass extinction will happen before 2100.