TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.

Sex sells. The issue is, I think, what message is interpreted by the public. And sadly, very often, it’s the wrong one. Which I concede, companies exploit because this is about money in the end. But I do want to reiterate that this is not a man/woman thing. These behaviors. We humans are, well, very capable of being shitty to one another. Having commercials that normalize such behaviors that give wrong ideas doesn’t help.

[Grenartia]

I did.

Hmm, I doubt that.

Its just that your perception of "genuinely toxic behavior" is so skewed that you only recognize the most extreme cases as being "genuinely toxic".

Maybe your judgment of what is toxic behavior is skewed.

Highly unlikely. It's more likely a result of an ideological framework that puts harmless things as "toxic" due to sexism.

Please, tell me what harmless things you think we consider to be "toxic".

Hardly. However, advertising that emphasizes aggressive masculinity is toxic. And its not even like there aren't things being advertised that are masculine, but not toxically so. For example, Old Spice commericals aren't displaying toxic masculinity. But Axe's line of "CHEMICAL WARFARE FOR YOUR BO" / "WEAPON OF MASS SEDUCTION" shit is textbook toxic masculinity in advertising.

Why is "aggressive masculinity" "toxic"?

It should be self-evident.

Why is it bad that Axe advertises its body spray in a badass way? Sure, the product sucks, but that's separate from the advertising from said product.

If it actually advertised in a badass way, it wouldn't be bad. Old Spice advertises in a badass way, that doesn't promote toxic behaviors. When was the last time anyone became an obnoxious douchebag imitating Terry Crews in one of their commercials? And how many obnoxious douchebags were sprouted imitating shit they saw in an Axe commercial?

Actually, feminists back in the day of the ERA argued in favor of either making women sign up for the Selective Service as well, or just outright abolishing the draft, and also advocated for more equal divorce outcomes, AND a more inclusive definition of rape. And the antifeminists successfully fought against those things. I.E., everything MRAs today say feminists don't want.

Honestly, watch the video.

"According to a Youtube video by some pretentious sexist git, feminists back in the late 70s/early 80s didn't oppose a move for equal rights, which means feminists in the new 10's don't either!!!"
You do realize it's been near 40 years, right? Movements change. Times change. People change.
Hell, back when the ERA was first supposed back in the 20's, it really caused a split between feminists.

How is Knowing Better a "pretentious sexist git"?

Also everything you've said so far in response shows you didn't actually watch the video, since the "that was 40 years ago" bit was pretty clearly addressed.

Also, in the words of an anon I came across when googling the URL:

If you need a separate guide for people based on race and sex, I already know what you're selling me is sexist and racist so I don't care

So, you'll take the word of some rando shitwad from /pol/ about what someone said, but you won't actually listen to what the person themself said. :thonk:

I guess my social transitioning is going well, and getting better about reminding people about pronoun usage.

That's good! Glad to hear things are going well for you. Hopefully it continues to get better from here on out. ^.^

On my end, I've been out to my parents for a while, and I usually wear my feminine clothes when I go out, but I only very recently started wearing those clothes around my parents (out of necessity more than anything else; I needed to get my sweet monster of a kitty to the vet, and I have neither a car nor driver's license). My father just takes it with no comment, as usual, but my mother clearly isn't happy about it. She won't force me to do anything or try to kick me out of the house or something, but she very obviously doesn't approve. Today when I was going out, she said "You better not let [your grandfather] see you wearing that", which is kind of the way she expresses her displeasure (through pointing out practical issues unrelated to the actual source of her unhappiness). When I came back, she told me to go get changed, to which I asked "Why? Is [my grandfather] coming over?", and she conspicuously didn't reply.

So, yeah. Neither of my parents are really 'supportive' in that way to much as 'resigned', though my mother more so. Unfortunate, and it does make me sad / annoyed / awkward, but they deserve to feel however they want. I'm eventually planning to move out when I'm financially independent, anyway, so hopefully that time comes soon.

In other news, I'm planning to legally change my name. I can't change my legal gender, but having a feminine name will make passing in school a lot easier. I'm hoping to start wearing dresses and such when my next term begins. It's a good thing I'm basically invisible, or else people might notice the change.

I'm gonna disagree heavily with you, and say that your parents don't "deserve" to feel that way. They deserve to be happy that you're taking steps to improve your happiness.

[Proctopeo]

Hmm, I doubt that.

Its just that your perception of "genuinely toxic behavior" is so skewed that you only recognize the most extreme cases as being "genuinely toxic".

...no, not really. It's just an offshoot of the rampant outrage culture. I'm not "skewed" in my perception for not buying into a festering wound of a culture.

Highly unlikely. It's more likely a result of an ideological framework that puts harmless things as "toxic" due to sexism.

Please, tell me what harmless things you think we consider to be "toxic".

I dunno, give me a short list of "toxic" things and I'll tell you.

Why is "aggressive masculinity" "toxic"?

It should be self-evident.

Ah, so "just take my word on it!" then.

Why is it bad that Axe advertises its body spray in a badass way? Sure, the product sucks, but that's separate from the advertising from said product.

If it actually advertised in a badass way, it wouldn't be bad. Old Spice advertises in a badass way, that doesn't promote toxic behaviors. When was the last time anyone became an obnoxious douchebag imitating Terry Crews in one of their commercials? And how many obnoxious douchebags were sprouted imitating shit they saw in an Axe commercial?

To be fair, I never see commercials for Axe and outside of middle school, I've never met anyone who actually uses Axe.

"According to a Youtube video by some pretentious sexist git, feminists back in the late 70s/early 80s didn't oppose a move for equal rights, which means feminists in the new 10's don't either!!!"
You do realize it's been near 40 years, right? Movements change. Times change. People change.
Hell, back when the ERA was first supposed back in the 20's, it really caused a split between feminists.

How is Knowing Better a "pretentious sexist git"?

Pretentious (and likely egotistical too) because, well, his fucking name lmao
Sexist because, well, the title of the video. And a git? Well, he just comes off as unpleasant due to his name and how he titles videos. If I met him on a bus I'd refuse to sit near him, lest he talk my ear off about what-have-you.

Also everything you've said so far in response shows you didn't actually watch the video, since the "that was 40 years ago" bit was pretty clearly addressed.

I'm not watching forty minutes of some random babbling about feminism. My upper limit for that is about fifteen minutes, and I prefer it if the point can be expressed in ten or less.

Also, in the words of an anon I came across when googling the URL:

So, you'll take the word of some rando shitwad from /pol/ about what someone said, but you won't actually listen to what the person themself said. :thonk:

Technically, the reply wasn't about what they said, but what they titled the video. Which is itself enough reason to not watch it and mark the entire channel as "not interested".
Anyway, yes, I will take the word of some "rando shitwad from /pol/" more than this "Knowing Better" jackass.

[Luminesa]

As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.

Sex sells. The issue is, I think, what message is interpreted by the public. And sadly, very often, it’s the wrong one. Which I concede, companies exploit because this is about money in the end. But I do want to reiterate that this is not a man/woman thing. These behaviors. We humans are, well, very capable of being shitty to one another. Having commercials that normalize such behaviors that give wrong ideas doesn’t help.

Agreed 100%.

[Torrocca]

So, you'll take the word of some rando shitwad from /pol/ about what someone said, but you won't actually listen to what the person themself said. :thonk:

Technically, the reply wasn't about what they said, but what they titled the video. Which is itself enough reason to not watch it and mark the entire channel as "not interested".
Anyway, yes, I will take the word of some "rando shitwad from /pol/" more than this "Knowing Better" jackass.

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

[Proctopeo]

Technically, the reply wasn't about what they said, but what they titled the video. Which is itself enough reason to not watch it and mark the entire channel as "not interested".
Anyway, yes, I will take the word of some "rando shitwad from /pol/" more than this "Knowing Better" jackass.

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

I see you didn't read what I wrote.
You seem... upset, Torra. Has anything happened in your life recently that you're trying to take out on me?

[Torrocca]

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

I see you didn't read what I wrote.

Nah, I read it perfectly fine and well. It's still the stupidest thing you could be doing. :^)

[Proctopeo]

I see you didn't read what I wrote.

Nah, I read it perfectly fine and well. It's still the stupidest thing you could be doing. :^)

Again, I reiterate. Anything you're trying to take out on me? There is no need to be upset. It's unhealthy to be angry, especially at what is certainly not the true cause of your anger currently.

[Torrocca]

Nah, I read it perfectly fine and well. It's still the stupidest thing you could be doing. :^)

Again, I reiterate.

I reiterate as well: you trusting somebody's word from the cancer that is /pol/ about what somebody said, over what that person actually said, is the fucking stupidest thing you could be doing.

[Proctopeo]

Again, I reiterate.

I reiterate as well: you trusting somebody's word from the cancer that is /pol/ about what somebody said, over what that person actually said, is the fucking stupidest thing you could be doing.

No, it's the second "stupidest" thing I could be doing.
The first is getting this irate at someone over such a small issue - and continuing to misrepresent what you're even mad about.

Are you okay? You're significantly more incensed than usual.

[Torrocca]

I reiterate as well: you trusting somebody's word from the cancer that is /pol/ about what somebody said, over what that person actually said, is the fucking stupidest thing you could be doing.

No, it's the second "stupidest" thing I could be doing.

Nah, it's 100% the stupidest thing. :3

[Dumb Ideologies]

The mating call thread is very frisky today.

[Proctopeo]

No, it's the second "stupidest" thing I could be doing.

Nah, it's 100% the stupidest thing. :3

Now, now, Torra. Don't pop a vein. Tell me the true root cause of your anger, as it can't be such a tiny thing.

[Torrocca]

Nah, it's 100% the stupidest thing. :3

Now, now, Torra. Don't pop a vein. Tell me the true root cause of your anger, as it can't be such a tiny thing.

Lol, nobody's gonna fall for your faux concern for this imaginary scenario you've fucking created about me being "angry" or what-the-fuck-ever shit it is you're trying to pull.

Everyone who's seen me post a half-decent amount knows I swear like a drunk motherfucker lmao.

I guess you're right though, you listening to a person from /pol/ is the second stupidest thing you could do: the first is this faux-concern bullshit. :3

[Proctopeo]

Now, now, Torra. Don't pop a vein. Tell me the true root cause of your anger, as it can't be such a tiny thing.

Lol, nobody's gonna fall for your faux concern for this imaginary scenario you've fucking created about me being "angry" or what-the-fuck-ever shit it is you're trying to pull.

You did have a needlessly explosive response to what amounts to nothing.

Everyone who's seen me post a half-decent amount knows I swear like a drunk motherfucker lmao.

Somehow I doubt that's actually an indicator of you being angry.

I guess you're right though, you listening to a person from /pol/ is the second stupidest thing you could do: the first is this faux-concern bullshit. :3

It isn't really "faux-concern". Nobody in their right mind goes off like that without actually being angry, and that anger is often completely misplaced. Are you positive there's nothing, not a single thing, that prompted this outburst other than the minor thing I said?
Also I like the implication that anyone from /pol/ is not worth listening to, but some asshole talking to a camera is. The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

[Cekoviu]

Lol, nobody's gonna fall for your faux concern for this imaginary scenario you've fucking created about me being "angry" or what-the-fuck-ever shit it is you're trying to pull.

You did have a needlessly explosive response to what amounts to nothing.

Everyone who's seen me post a half-decent amount knows I swear like a drunk motherfucker lmao.

Somehow I doubt that's actually an indicator of you being angry.

I guess you're right though, you listening to a person from /pol/ is the second stupidest thing you could do: the first is this faux-concern bullshit. :3

It isn't really "faux-concern". Nobody in their right mind goes off like that without actually being angry, and that anger is often completely misplaced. Are you positive there's nothing, not a single thing, that prompted this outburst other than the minor thing I said?
Also I like the implication that anyone from /pol/ is not worth listening to, but some asshole talking to a camera is. The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

Neither are worth listening to, but a person from /pol/ is much less worth listening to.

[Luminesa]

Technically, the reply wasn't about what they said, but what they titled the video. Which is itself enough reason to not watch it and mark the entire channel as "not interested".
Anyway, yes, I will take the word of some "rando shitwad from /pol/" more than this "Knowing Better" jackass.

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

...What?...

[Torrocca]

Lol, nobody's gonna fall for your faux concern for this imaginary scenario you've fucking created about me being "angry" or what-the-fuck-ever shit it is you're trying to pull.

You did have a needlessly explosive response to what amounts to nothing.

Lol, that was hardly explosive.

Everyone who's seen me post a half-decent amount knows I swear like a drunk motherfucker lmao.

Somehow I doubt that's actually an indicator of you being angry.

Which makes the fact that you're using it as an indicator for me somehow being angry all the more stupider.

I guess you're right though, you listening to a person from /pol/ is the second stupidest thing you could do: the first is this faux-concern bullshit. :3

It isn't really "faux-concern".

Sure it is. I've absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe it isn't when you pull this slimy shit with other people like Gren just to get a rise out of them.

Nobody in their right mind goes off like that without actually being angry, and that anger is often completely misplaced. Are you positive there's nothing, not a single thing, that prompted this outburst other than the minor thing I said?

Even if I somehow was fucking angry, do you really think I'd fucking talk about it with somebody like you?

Also I like the implication that anyone from /pol/ is not worth listening to, but some asshole talking to a camera is.

Considering /pol/ is quite literally a cancerous mass that espouses a metric fuckton of Neo-Nazism? Yes.

The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

I almost wish I could say I'm surprised you'd find Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than any and all leftism, but, knowing you, I'm really, really not surprised you do. You just continue to prove you're doing a headfirst dive straight into shittier and shittier political beliefs.

I'm done here.

[Proctopeo]

You did have a needlessly explosive response to what amounts to nothing.


Somehow I doubt that's actually an indicator of you being angry.


It isn't really "faux-concern". Nobody in their right mind goes off like that without actually being angry, and that anger is often completely misplaced. Are you positive there's nothing, not a single thing, that prompted this outburst other than the minor thing I said?
Also I like the implication that anyone from /pol/ is not worth listening to, but some asshole talking to a camera is. The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

Neither are worth listening to, but a person from /pol/ is much less worth listening to.

To be fair, 4chan is a much better source of one-liners, and that's all I used it for.

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

...What?...

Yeah, I haven't a damn clue what the hell Torra's saying either. Seems to be a lot of nothing of value said in way too many words. A "no u" would've given the same effect without implying immense anger.

I'm done here.

Good, 'cause you said a lot shit worth literally less than nothing, and I don't care enough to actually dignify it, unlike most times.

[Torrocca]

I'm done here.

Good, 'cause you said a lot shit worth literally less than nothing, and I don't care enough to actually dignify it, unlike most times.

I absolutely love how you ignored the part where you got called out for earnestly believing that the average user from a message board notorious for Neo-Nazism is more trustworthy than a leftist youtuber. You're really showing your colors high and proud for the rest of us to see, Proct.

[Proctopeo]

Good, 'cause you said a lot shit worth literally less than nothing, and I don't care enough to actually dignify it, unlike most times.

I absolutely love how you ignored the part where you got called out for earnestly believing that the average user from a message board notorious for Neo-Nazism is more trustworthy than a leftist youtuber. You're really showing your colors high and proud for the rest of us to see, Proct.

I thought you said you were done. But it seems like you saw it fit to continue to reply with even more nonsense.

[Torrocca]

I absolutely love how you ignored the part where you got called out for earnestly believing that the average user from a message board notorious for Neo-Nazism is more trustworthy than a leftist youtuber. You're really showing your colors high and proud for the rest of us to see, Proct.

I thought you said you were done. But it seems like you saw it fit to continue to reply with even more nonsense.

Just wanted to add a little extra since you couldn't even be bothered to try and make it look like you don't find Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than any leftist ever. Thanks for letting all of us know how utterly worthless anything you say here is, though, by showing us your true colors and your favor toward Neo-Nazism.

I'm done for real now, hun. And hopefully everyone else who earnestly partakes in this thread will be too, and appropriately ignore you and any bullshit you try to bring into here. :3

[Luminesa]

I thought you said you were done. But it seems like you saw it fit to continue to reply with even more nonsense.

Just wanted to add a little extra since you couldn't even be bothered to try and make it look like you don't find Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than any leftist ever. Thanks for letting all of us know how utterly worthless anything you say here is, though, by showing us your true colors and your favor toward Neo-Nazism.

I'm done for real now, hun. And hopefully everyone else who earnestly partakes in this thread will be too, and appropriately ignore you and any bullshit you try to bring into here. :3

...You...realize he was memeing, right? I mean...I honestly have no idea what you were saying. But if you’re done then...bye?

[Torrocca]

Just wanted to add a little extra since you couldn't even be bothered to try and make it look like you don't find Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than any leftist ever. Thanks for letting all of us know how utterly worthless anything you say here is, though, by showing us your true colors and your favor toward Neo-Nazism.

I'm done for real now, hun. And hopefully everyone else who earnestly partakes in this thread will be too, and appropriately ignore you and any bullshit you try to bring into here. :3

...You...realize he was memeing, right? I mean...I honestly have no idea what you were saying. But if you’re done then...bye?

TIL'd it's a meme to just straight-up say -

The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

- without a single hint of irony.

Wow, 10/10, I've been meme'd hard.

[Luminesa]

...You...realize he was memeing, right? I mean...I honestly have no idea what you were saying. But if you’re done then...bye?

TIL'd it's a meme to just straight-up say -

The average /pol/ user is more worth listening to than the average leftuber.

- without a single hint of irony.

Wow, 10/10, I've been meme'd hard.

...I mean, it’s honestly not that hard, I think you’re just taking this argument way too seriously.