NationStates

Coffee Cakes wrote:

Daistallia 2104 wrote:
Nope, not when allowing a vote will seriously harm their constituents they aren't.

How would that harm more than 2% of the state? Especially knowing they're living better than most of the other 98%?

Hear, hear!

Coffee Cakes wrote:

Senestrum wrote:They are representing their constituents in the best way they can, by doing whatever they can to stop a bill that will hurt said constituents. Regardless of whether you think the bill is good or not, they are doing their job of representing those who elected them.

They owe their constituents at least a vote on the issue, whether it passes or fails. If they get outvoted, they can say they lost to GOP greed and use it as a talking point in 2012.

They owe it to their constituents to go along with something they know will end up with said constituents being hurt? Where on earth are you getting that idea? Their job is to represent those that elected them, and in this case the only way they can do that is by abstaining from participating in the voting process.

Neo Arcad wrote:

Drachmar wrote:No you may not ask. It's not your business.

Oh look, it's another unionbot.

Yeah, probably, but if he's not, that's character assassination.

Rolamec wrote:

Coffee Cakes wrote:
Then wtf is wrong with Wisconsin?

It's the cheese, man, it does things to you....sexual things....

Wisconsin is previously a (very) blue state ...... they just like to dictate to their minority repubs before. I just am not aware if repubs constantly run away if they do disagree but it seems they dont . Problem here is that wisconsin suddenly turned red last nov. and the dems dont know how to be a minority . I guess the best thing they can do i ran, but then i could be wrong it could all because of the cheese.

No, they're not. They're hippies and idiots.

Coffee Cakes wrote:

Senestrum wrote:They are representing their constituents in the best way they can, by doing whatever they can to stop a bill that will hurt said constituents. Regardless of whether you think the bill is good or not, they are doing their job of representing those who elected them.

They owe their constituents at least a vote on the issue, whether it passes or fails. If they get outvoted, they can say they lost to GOP greed and use it as a talking point in 2012.

You're probably an oligarchal tool, but I'll pretend you just don't get the big picture and explain it.

Public Sector Unions are 3 of the 10 biggest contributors to American political campaigns- the other 7 are corporate and right-wing. Ever since the Supreme Court fucked up with Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, those 10 entities are allowed to throw in as much money as they want to any political campaign they wish.

Now, as has been mentioned so many times, the provisions in the bill include a requirement for annual recertification in order for the PSUs to remain in existence, on top of destroying the right to collective bargaining. This in effect is trying to break up the PSUs by default.

Once PSUs cease to exist, that means the only real political finance entities remaining will all be corporate. Which means by and large, only Republicans with a good record for corporate whoring will have a realistic shot at any public office. And once those whores get elected, they will engineer the government to maximize profits for the corporations and minimize any benefits or rights of those working for them. I guarantee if this bill passes almost all of the 50 States will become Right to Work states with all the shit that comes with it.

And if PSUs can be destroyed, guess what? Private unions will be next, or will be irrelevant as the Republicans paid for by corporate money systemically legislate them out of existence.

Senestrum wrote:

Coffee Cakes wrote:
They owe their constituents at least a vote on the issue, whether it passes or fails. If they get outvoted, they can say they lost to GOP greed and use it as a talking point in 2012.

They owe it to their constituents to go along with something they know will end up with said constituents being hurt? Where on earth are you getting that idea? Their job is to represent those that elected them, and in this case the only way they can do that is by abstaining from participating in the voting process.

In terms of money, yeah, those unions are the constituents... in terms of their districts, that's just b-s.

Sierra Lobo wrote:

Rolamec wrote:
It's the cheese, man, it does things to you....sexual things....

Wisconsin is previously a (very) blue state ...... they just like to dictate to their minority repubs before. I just am not aware if repubs constantly run away if they do disagree but it seems they dont . Problem here is that wisconsin suddenly turned red last nov. and the dems dont know how to be a minority . I guess the best thing they can do i ran, but then i could be wrong it could all because of the cheese.

Of course Democrats don't know how to be a minority, did you see how they were during Bush? "We oppose, okay, we'll cave." Sadly they are still living in the 1930s and 40s...

Red Sector X wrote:No, they're not. They're hippies and idiots.

Now that's a healthy political climate.

How long before you outlaw the democratic party?

Mongolian Khanate wrote:

Red Sector X wrote:No, they're not. They're hippies and idiots.

Now that's a healthy political climate.

How long before you outlaw the democratic party?

Don't worry, once the only political financiers in existence are all corporate, the Democratic Party will be outlawed de facto.

Gauthier wrote:

Coffee Cakes wrote:
They owe their constituents at least a vote on the issue, whether it passes or fails. If they get outvoted, they can say they lost to GOP greed and use it as a talking point in 2012.

You're probably an oligarchal tool, but I'll pretend you just don't get the big picture and explain it.

Public Sector Unions are 3 of the 10 biggest contributors to American political campaigns- the other 7 are corporate and right-wing. Ever since the Supreme Court fucked up with Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, those 10 entities are allowed to throw in as much money as they want to any political campaign they wish.

Now, as has been mentioned so many times, the provisions in the bill include a requirement for annual recertification in order for the PSUs to remain in existence, on top of destroying the right to collective bargaining. This in effect is trying to break up the PSUs by default.

Once PSUs cease to exist, that means the only real political finance entities remaining will all be corporate. Which means by and large, only Republicans with a good record for corporate whoring will have a realistic shot at any public office. And once those whores get elected, they will engineer the government to maximize profits for the corporations and minimize any benefits or rights of those working for them. I guarantee if this bill passes almost all of the 50 States will become Right to Work states with all the shit that comes with it.

And if PSUs can be destroyed, guess what? Private unions will be next, or will be irrelevant as the Republicans paid for by corporate money systemically legislate them out of existence.

"Oligarchal tool"? You mean like the entire Democratic Party? Because Communism's pretty damn "Oligarchal", and that's the unions' objective- a welfare state where they use all the people like slaves.

Red Sector X wrote:No, they're not. They're hippies and idiots.

The democratic party is very similar to the republican party. They're somewhat less fascist but that's about it.

Rolamec wrote:

Sierra Lobo wrote:
Wisconsin is previously a (very) blue state ...... they just like to dictate to their minority repubs before. I just am not aware if repubs constantly run away if they do disagree but it seems they dont . Problem here is that wisconsin suddenly turned red last nov. and the dems dont know how to be a minority . I guess the best thing they can do i ran, but then i could be wrong it could all because of the cheese.

Of course Democrats don't know how to be a minority, did you see how they were during Bush? "We oppose, okay, we'll cave." Sadly they are still living in the 1930s and 40s...

And yet you're bitching that the Senators aren't doing their jobs by not going back to Wisconsin and caving in. How disingenuous.

Red Sector X wrote:

Gauthier wrote:
You're probably an oligarchal tool, but I'll pretend you just don't get the big picture and explain it.

Public Sector Unions are 3 of the 10 biggest contributors to American political campaigns- the other 7 are corporate and right-wing. Ever since the Supreme Court fucked up with Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, those 10 entities are allowed to throw in as much money as they want to any political campaign they wish.

Now, as has been mentioned so many times, the provisions in the bill include a requirement for annual recertification in order for the PSUs to remain in existence, on top of destroying the right to collective bargaining. This in effect is trying to break up the PSUs by default.

Once PSUs cease to exist, that means the only real political finance entities remaining will all be corporate. Which means by and large, only Republicans with a good record for corporate whoring will have a realistic shot at any public office. And once those whores get elected, they will engineer the government to maximize profits for the corporations and minimize any benefits or rights of those working for them. I guarantee if this bill passes almost all of the 50 States will become Right to Work states with all the shit that comes with it.

And if PSUs can be destroyed, guess what? Private unions will be next, or will be irrelevant as the Republicans paid for by corporate money systemically legislate them out of existence.

"Oligarchal tool"? You mean like the entire Democratic Party? Because Communism's pretty damn "Oligarchal", and that's the unions' objective- a welfare state where they use all the people like slaves.

You know nothing about Oligarchy, Communism, nor US Politics. You proved that with one single post.

Senestrum wrote:

Red Sector X wrote:No, they're not. They're hippies and idiots.

The democratic party is very similar to the republican party. They're somewhat less fascist but that's about it.

They're less FASCIST? I'm pretty sure the Democrats are the big-government advocates here. And big government leads to Statism, Statism leads to Autocracy, and Autocracy leads to slavery.

Neo Arcad wrote:

Drachmar wrote:No you may not ask. It's not your business.

Oh look, it's another unionbot.

Haha! That's hilarious.

Gauthier wrote:

Coffee Cakes wrote:
They owe their constituents at least a vote on the issue, whether it passes or fails. If they get outvoted, they can say they lost to GOP greed and use it as a talking point in 2012.

You're probably an oligarchal tool, but I'll pretend you just don't get the big picture and explain it.

Public Sector Unions are 3 of the 10 biggest contributors to American political campaigns- the other 7 are corporate and right-wing. Ever since the Supreme Court fucked up with Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, those 10 entities are allowed to throw in as much money as they want to any political campaign they wish.

Now, as has been mentioned so many times, the provisions in the bill include a requirement for annual recertification in order for the PSUs to remain in existence, on top of destroying the right to collective bargaining. This in effect is trying to break up the PSUs by default.

Once PSUs cease to exist, that means the only real political finance entities remaining will all be corporate. Which means by and large, only Republicans with a good record for corporate whoring will have a realistic shot at any public office. And once those whores get elected, they will engineer the government to maximize profits for the corporations and minimize any benefits or rights of those working for them. I guarantee if this bill passes almost all of the 50 States will become Right to Work states with all the shit that comes with it.

And if PSUs can be destroyed, guess what? Private unions will be next, or will be irrelevant as the Republicans paid for by corporate money systemically legislate them out of existence.

PSU's are a drain on the taxpayer, i.e. the folks that are forced to give their money to the state. And PSU's are cleaning the governments out of money. Money which comes... from the taxpayers.
Making it harder for the PSU's to rape the state will help the people.

And Dems would still have lawyers to get donations from. And as far as Private sector unions, they need some protection, but that's just outright fear-mongering. And as far as corporate donations, it's about an even 50/50 split. The Dems would not lose as much as you think they would.

Senestrum wrote:

Sierra Lobo wrote:
True.... but should'nt the preacher of civility be CIVIL. Where thou is the moral ground.

Taking the moral high ground means death for the party. The democrats need to grow a sack because otherwise the entire US political environment is a de facto one-party system.

You mean the money laundering apparatus of the Dems?

Senestrum wrote:

Sierra Lobo wrote:I mean the labor protesters is more wingnuts than the Tea Party.

rofl how can you possibly believe this

you mean you are not aware of this? I guess drinking liberal cool aid does desensitize you from union rhetorics.

Drachmar wrote:

Neo Arcad wrote:
Oh look, it's another unionbot.

Haha! That's hilarious.

Oh look, the unionbot talks. It has a long delay time, though. Guess that software's not up to par.

Red Sector X wrote:

Drachmar wrote:
Haha! That's hilarious.

Oh look, the unionbot talks. It has a long delay time, though.

Oh look...I'm a robot. Christ, I can't even go out and smoke.

But wait! Robots don't smoke, do they?

You're confusing me.

Do robots smoke?

Drachmar wrote:

Red Sector X wrote:
Oh look, the unionbot talks. It has a long delay time, though.

Oh look...I'm a robot. Christ, I can't even go out and smoke.

But wait! Robots don't smoke, do they?

You're confusing me.

Do robots smoke?

When they overheat.
*rimshot*

Red Sector X wrote:

Drachmar wrote:Oh look...I'm a robot. Christ, I can't even go out and smoke.

But wait! Robots don't smoke, do they?

You're confusing me.

Do robots smoke?

When they overheat.
*rimshot*

Wisconsin's weather generally prevents my servos from overheating.

Gauthier wrote:

Mongolian Khanate wrote:
Now that's a healthy political climate.

How long before you outlaw the democratic party?

Don't worry, once the only political financiers in existence are all corporate, the Democratic Party will be outlawed de facto.

No it won't. Corporations give plenty to the D's too.

And your attitude towards this whole thing is emblematic of the problem with American democracy. You only get angry with corruption when it isn't working for 'your' side.

Attitudes like yours make the third world what it is.

Gauthier wrote:

Rolamec wrote:
Of course Democrats don't know how to be a minority, did you see how they were during Bush? "We oppose, okay, we'll cave." Sadly they are still living in the 1930s and 40s...

And yet you're bitching that the Senators aren't doing their jobs by not going back to Wisconsin and caving in. How disingenuous.

Me saying what they should do and what they actually do are two separate things, entirely. Blame the party for being weak, not the system.

Drachmar wrote:

Red Sector X wrote:
When they overheat.
*rimshot*

Wisconsin's weather generally prevents my servos from overheating.

Ah, so you're a unionbot on the frontlines of the fight against democracy?
Good for you, I guess.
Not really good for the taxpayers, but w/e...