Barbados to Remove the Queen as Head of State

[New Carthagea]

I personally think my country would've been far better off if we just sucked it up and sticked with the Brits. We might have ended up like Hong Kong and the Bahamas, a rich territory with a stable democracy.

Except in the case of the Bahamas they have the world’s largest economy right next door. Bengal doesn’t. And Hong Kong isn’t really any place anyone wants to be in right now

Hong Kong isn't really a place people don't want to be because it is no longer under the British Crown, and the CCP tries to bring it closer to the rest of China.

[New Carthagea]

Wait, there was a plebiscite for that? OP didn't say anything about 'the people' of Barbados, just the government.

I haven't seen anything about a plebiscite nor referendum.

Yes, the Prime Minister just pushed it forward.

[Thermodolia]

This has to be the dumbest argument for monarchies I’ve seen.

You do realize that most Monarchies of the world are dictatorships in their own right? Then you have Thailand which is a dictatorship under a constitutional monarch yet if it was a republic it would be evil according to your warped and very bad argument

I am talking about the British monarchy. Do you think the British people, who have grown up under the monarchy and likely trust it more than anyone who is elected, will instantly welcome a republic? No. And most monarchies right now are constitutional. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and Vatican are the only ones which aren't so far. There's Britain, Spain, Bhutan, Netherlands, Belgium, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, and Andorra, which are mostly nice places to live.

Liechtenstein, Monaco, Bhutan, and Andorra aren’t Constitutional monarchies. The monarch in all of those nations has the power to unilaterally change the law and constitution whenever they want. They aren’t constitutional but semi-Constitutional.

Also you’ve forgotten about half of the worlds monarchies which are still very much not constitutional

[Ifreann]

Not really. The stability it brings is negligible. It’s basically the equivalent of saying we should keep an old stuffed animal because it brings stability

Well, it does stop dictators. Tell me, when did Siaka Stevens become dictator of Sierra Leone? After the monarchy was abolished. How did the Fiji monarchy end? A military coup. What happened to South Africa after it abolished the monarchy? Race wars due to apartheid.

That's why Europe is divided between countries with a monarch and countries with a dictator.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Well, it does stop dictators. Tell me, when did Siaka Stevens become dictator of Sierra Leone? After the monarchy was abolished. How did the Fiji monarchy end? A military coup. What happened to South Africa after it abolished the monarchy? Race wars due to apartheid.

Uh, dude. There was a Communist state under the Commonwealth from 1979 to 1983 (Grenada). Jamaica still recognizes the monarchy. And don't even get me started on India, where they went from an autocracy to a democracy, even after 4 million Bengalese died under the hands of the British.

The British Monarchy, for many countries, is not an icon of stability but an icon of violence and oppression. Yes, abolishing the Monarchy does not stop dictators, but it sure as hell does not bring stability for countries that saw it merely as a foreign occupation.

Now it isn't. We're talking about the present. And the communist state was an outlier. Most other military coups either ended the monarchy or were crushed.

[Thermodolia]

Except in the case of the Bahamas they have the world’s largest economy right next door. Bengal doesn’t. And Hong Kong isn’t really any place anyone wants to be in right now

Hong Kong isn't really a place people don't want to be because it is no longer under the British Crown, and the CCP tries to bring it closer to the rest of China.

And who’s fault was that? Oh right the UK. Who decided they didn’t need to consult the people of Hong Kong if they wanted to be handed over.

But hey the UK brings stability or something

[Bengal and Assam]

And the people of Barbados don’t want to be ruled by a monarch. Why are you so interested in forcing a monarchy on people who don’t want one?

Wait, there was a plebiscite for that? OP didn't say anything about 'the people' of Barbados, just the government.

And who's fault is that? If I remember correctly, it was you Yanks and your "muh liberty" that supported China in its bid for Hong Kong. Now look at what's happening there.
Hong Kong has been built up by the Brits if I remember correctly.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Except in the case of the Bahamas they have the world’s largest economy right next door. Bengal doesn’t. And Hong Kong isn’t really any place anyone wants to be in right now

Hong Kong isn't really a place people don't want to be because it is no longer under the British Crown, and the CCP tries to bring it closer to the rest of China.

I got lost in the triple negative.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Well, it does stop dictators. Tell me, when did Siaka Stevens become dictator of Sierra Leone? After the monarchy was abolished. How did the Fiji monarchy end? A military coup. What happened to South Africa after it abolished the monarchy? Race wars due to apartheid.

That's why Europe is divided between countries with a monarch and countries with a dictator.

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

[New Carthagea]

Wait, there was a plebiscite for that? OP didn't say anything about 'the people' of Barbados, just the government.

And who's fault is that? If I remember correctly, it was you Yanks and your "muh liberty" that supported China in its bid for Hong Kong. Now look at what's happening there.
Hong Kong has been built up by the Brits if I remember correctly.

Exactly. The reason China wanted the city so badly was because it was, indeed, a jewel. A city developed by the British to be the pride of East Asia.

[Thermodolia]

I haven't seen anything about a plebiscite nor referendum.

Yes, the Prime Minister just pushed it forward.

After they got elected in a unanimous landslide. Everyone in Barbados knows that the Prime Minister’s Party is pro-Republic, they voted them into near total control of the legislature.

Seems like the people at worst don’t care if Barbados becomes a republic

[Kowani]

That's why Europe is divided between countries with a monarch and countries with a dictator.

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

The problem here is not so much the ending of the monarchy as who ended it.

[Atheris]

If there was no plebiscite/referendum, then this is 100% illegitimate. Getting rid of political institutions without asking your people is anti-democratic and anti-liberty.

[Hammer Britannia]

Wait, there was a plebiscite for that? OP didn't say anything about 'the people' of Barbados, just the government.

And who's fault is that? If I remember correctly, it was you Yanks and your "muh liberty"

False.

In 1992, the US released an act which specifically stated that, in preparation for the end of the 99-year treaty, the US would treat Hong Kong as a separate entity to China. The US had nothing to do with the Hong Kong handover, it was a legal dance between Thatcher, Deng, and the UN (Especially Deng, who was threatening an invasion at the time).

[Thermodolia]

That's why Europe is divided between countries with a monarch and countries with a dictator.

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

Ah yes France the poor nation that own half of Africa and the Middle East. Much poor. Very bad

[Atheris]

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

Ah yes France the poor nation that own half of Africa and the Middle East. Much poor. Very bad

What? France didn't own half of Africa nor the Middle East in the 1870's or 1880's. The Berlin Conference didn't even happen until 1885 and France didn't have anything in the Middle East until the 20's.

[Kowani]

If there was no plebiscite/referendum, then this is 100% illegitimate. Getting rid of political institutions without asking your people is anti-democratic and anti-liberty.

Dude, they’ve been preparing for this since 1998. If the voters didn’t want a monarchy, they’ve had literal decades to say something, or vote in a new party.

[Exalted Inquellian State]

I am talking about the British monarchy. Do you think the British people, who have grown up under the monarchy and likely trust it more than anyone who is elected, will instantly welcome a republic? No. And most monarchies right now are constitutional. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and Vatican are the only ones which aren't so far. There's Britain, Spain, Bhutan, Netherlands, Belgium, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, and Andorra, which are mostly nice places to live.

Liechtenstein, Monaco, Bhutan, and Andorra aren’t Constitutional monarchies. The monarch in all of those nations has the power to unilaterally change the law and constitution whenever they want. They aren’t constitutional but semi-Constitutional.

Also you’ve forgotten about half of the worlds monarchies which are still very much not constitutional

Alright, fine, Bahrain, eSwatini, Thailand, and Cambodia will be added. Regarding the semi-constitutional monarchies, they don't oppress their citizens(as far as I know) and are generally nice places to leave. I also forgot Morocco, Lesotho, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway Even without Commonwealth realms, there's good monarchies there, and all but one of the ones I mentioned are good places to live in.

[Bengal and Assam]

Regarding the famine, I read that it was a bad harvest, and since Burma was occupied by Japan, that did no good. Plus, the Indians sabotaged the railways here and there, so it was hard to get food in from the other parts of the Raj.
Apparently Canada and Australia sent food, many of the shipments sunk by the Axis, and whatever did reacj just wasn't enough.

[Thermodolia]

And who's fault is that? If I remember correctly, it was you Yanks and your "muh liberty" that supported China in its bid for Hong Kong. Now look at what's happening there.
Hong Kong has been built up by the Brits if I remember correctly.

Exactly. The reason China wanted the city so badly was because it was, indeed, a jewel. A city developed by the British to be the pride of East Asia.

And the UK gave it to them without a fight as thatcher didn’t give two shits about protecting anything. Hell she only beefed up the military presence around the Falklands after it got invaded. Previously she didn’t give a fuck

[New Carthagea]

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

Ah yes France the poor nation that own half of Africa and the Middle East. Much poor. Very bad

Ah, a nation so stable that it had to go through 5 republics in the time the UK was one kingdom.

[Thermodolia]

If there was no plebiscite/referendum, then this is 100% illegitimate. Getting rid of political institutions without asking your people is anti-democratic and anti-liberty.

The people of Barbados voted in an anti-monarchy/pro-republican party into government in a landslide. Said party controls all seats in parliament but one.

That’s enough of a referendum as any

[New Carthagea]

Exactly. The reason China wanted the city so badly was because it was, indeed, a jewel. A city developed by the British to be the pride of East Asia.

And the UK gave it to them without a fight as thatcher didn’t give two shits about protecting anything. Hell she only beefed up the military presence around the Falklands after it got invaded. Previously she didn’t give a fuck

Fact check, sir !
It was Tony Blair of the Labour Party who was the PM during the handover, not Maggie.

Edit: I was wrong about the factcheck. Duly noted.

[Ifreann]

That's why Europe is divided between countries with a monarch and countries with a dictator.

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

But where are all the dictatorships in Europe now? It isn't the 1870s any more, and France doesn't have a monarch. Why aren't they a dictatorship?

[Exalted Inquellian State]

Germany took a while to get used to having no Monarch. France, in the 1870's and 1880's, was a poor and divided nation. Italy also had some violence after the end of the monarchy. Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary all ended up bad after they lost their monarchies. Ireland and Finland were limited exceptions.

Ah yes France the poor nation that own half of Africa and the Middle East. Much poor. Very bad

The mainland was poor, and don;'t forget factionalism.

This is probably a good point to say I'm not against Barbados abolishing it's monarchy. But they better be ready to restore it if all goes wrong and they come crawling back to Prince Charles. Or who knows, maybe their republic will be successful.