The tragedy of US President Lyndon Baines Johnson

[Ngelmish]

LBJ could have been avoided. Everyone knows Kennedy rigged the election in 1960.

With Nixon, we would have never had a Cuban Missile Crisis, a much smaller Vietnam, and certainly no '65 Act.

While it's unknowable whether Nixon would have escalated Vietnam in 1960 it's not even arguable that he didn't escalate Vietnam enormously during his first term just so that he could randomly declare "victory with honor" without having achieved any significant geopolitical changes other than bombing Cambodia to hell and back.

Go back to your paleoconservative sandbox and argue that Warren Harding was really a great president.

[Sundiata]

Not at all. He was a son of a bitch, i never said he wasn't a smart one.

Tbf to him his vietnam legacy is a lot more complicated than just calling him a war monger. There was a lot of interplay between him and kennedys "best and brightest".

think of it.

he ensured Black loyalty to the democrats no matter what happens and any detractors get labeled uncle toms.

its fucking genius.

Black people aren't loyal to the democratic party "no matter what happens."

Black Democrats are not a monolith.

[Arvenia]

think of it.

he ensured Black loyalty to the democrats no matter what happens and any detractors get labeled uncle toms.

its fucking genius.

If white people had the political uniformity of blacks (i.e. if whites voted 90% Republican), this country would be unrecognizable.

I agree.

[Loben III]

LBJ could have been avoided. Everyone knows Kennedy rigged the election in 1960.

With Nixon, we would have never had a Cuban Missile Crisis, a much smaller Vietnam, and certainly no '65 Act.

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon in 1960, the Cuban missile crisis was inevitable, and the Vietnam communist faction should have been opposed and resisted more vehemently than it was.

Ho chi minh wanted to model his country off the US constitution.

[Sundiata]

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon in 1960, the Cuban missile crisis was inevitable, and the Vietnam communist faction should have been opposed and resisted more vehemently than it was.

Ho chi minh wanted to model his country off the US constitution.

Ngo Dinh Diem would have actually gotten it done if we didn't abandon him and his family to die.

[Loben III]

Ho chi minh wanted to model his country off the US constitution.

Ngo Dinh Diem would have actually gotten it done if we didn't abandon him and his family to die.

how many more Americans in body bags would you have liked to see?

[Mingulay Isle]

LBJ could have been avoided. Everyone knows Kennedy rigged the election in 1960.

With Nixon, we would have never had a Cuban Missile Crisis, a much smaller Vietnam, and certainly no '65 Act.

While it's unknowable whether Nixon would have escalated Vietnam in 1960 it's not even arguable that he didn't escalate Vietnam enormously during his first term just so that he could randomly declare "victory with honor" without having achieved any significant geopolitical changes other than bombing Cambodia to hell and back.

Go back to your paleoconservative sandbox and argue that Warren Harding was really a great president.

the lack of achievement in Vietnam rest solely on Kennedy, who committed to "pay any price" without ever having a victory condition that we were buying..

[Ethel mermania]

Not at all. He was a son of a bitch, i never said he wasn't a smart one.

Tbf to him his vietnam legacy is a lot more complicated than just calling him a war monger. There was a lot of interplay between him and kennedys "best and brightest".

think of it.

he ensured Black loyalty to the democrats no matter what happens and any detractors get labeled uncle toms.

its fucking genius.

No argument, I have no disagreement with the bill, it is a good thing it passed.

The history is the history democrats tried to stop it, and would have succeeded without overwhelming republican support for cloture

Also I am just not ready to lionize LBJ for .... well anything

[Loben III]

think of it.

he ensured Black loyalty to the democrats no matter what happens and any detractors get labeled uncle toms.

its fucking genius.

No argument, I have no disagreement with the bill, it is a good thing it passed.

The history is the history democrats tried to stop it, and would have succeeded without overwhelming republican support for cloture

Also I am just not ready to lionize LBJ for .... well anything

He failed in vietnam and ensured the deaths of thousands of Americans.

his vision for a great society is dead and buried.

[Sundiata]

Ngo Dinh Diem would have actually gotten it done if we didn't abandon him and his family to die.

how many more Americans in body bags would you have liked to see?

Please, I have relatives who served in Vietnam and I'm extraordinarily thankful for their service.

[Bear Stearns]

how many more Americans in body bags would you have liked to see?

Please, I have relatives who served in Vietnam and I'm extraordinarily thankful for their service.

That's a nice sentiment, but you didn't answer his question.

[The Republic of Fore]

One of the worst, he was a corrupt idiotic charlatan. He did have some pretty good zingers though. For example, when Charles De Gaulle demanded all American troops leave his country LBJ replied "Does that include the ones buried at Normandy? Vietnam was nothing but a waste of money and manpower. It wasn't our concern if some random tiny southeast asian country was or wasn't communist.

[Dresderstan]

how many more Americans in body bags would you have liked to see?

Please, I have relatives who served in Vietnam and I'm extraordinarily thankful for their service.

So do I and they think we never should have been there in the first place because they were drafted.

[Loben III]

how many more Americans in body bags would you have liked to see?

Please, I have relatives who served in Vietnam and I'm extraordinarily thankful for their service.

Answer the question.

how many more nights on TV do Americans have to watch seeing their bloodied sons lay dead in some rice paddy?

how many more planes have to be shot out of the sky and their pilots taken prisoner?

[Ethel mermania]

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon in 1960, the Cuban missile crisis was inevitable, and the Vietnam communist faction should have been opposed and resisted more vehemently than it was.

Ho chi minh wanted to model his country off the US constitution.

I have a soft spot for Ho, for a while he lived and worked in. NYC.

[Sundiata]

No argument, I have no disagreement with the bill, it is a good thing it passed.

The history is the history democrats tried to stop it, and would have succeeded without overwhelming republican support for cloture

Also I am just not ready to lionize LBJ for .... well anything

He failed in vietnam and ensured the deaths of thousands of Americans.

his vision for a great society is dead and buried.

He was perhaps the greatest President of the 20th century's second half. May his vision of a great society proceed and his hopes for robust American influence continue.

[Bear Stearns]

He failed in vietnam and ensured the deaths of thousands of Americans.

his vision for a great society is dead and buried.

He was perhaps the greatest President of the 20th century's second half. May his vision of a great society proceed and his hopes for robust American influence continue.

If his vision has completely failed and ended in disaster, why do you still have hopes for it?

[Loben III]

He failed in vietnam and ensured the deaths of thousands of Americans.

his vision for a great society is dead and buried.

He was perhaps the greatest President of the 20th century's second half. May his vision of a great society proceed and his hopes for robust American influence continue.

ngl i have a soft spot of clinton.

[Greed and Death]

LBJ could have been avoided. Everyone knows Kennedy rigged the election in 1960.

With Nixon, we would have never had a Cuban Missile Crisis, a much smaller Vietnam, and certainly no '65 Act.

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon in 1960, the Cuban missile crisis was inevitable, and the Vietnam communist faction should have been opposed and resisted more vehemently than it was.

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon ? Maybe.
The Cuban missile crisis was inevitable after the Bay of Pigs which was Kennedy's fault. Nixon knew how to properly oust a commie regime see Chile.
Vietnam's communist faction was nationalist and capitalist when they were working with us during WWII Truman failed to capitalize on the relationship which left them no one else to go to but the soviets.

[Sundiata]

Please, I have relatives who served in Vietnam and I'm extraordinarily thankful for their service.

Answer the question.

how many more nights on TV do Americans have to watch seeing their bloodied sons lay dead in some rice paddy?

how many more planes have to be shot out of the sky and their pilots taken prisoner?

However many it takes to achieve strategic victory over all foreign and domestic threats to the United States of America.

[Loben III]

Answer the question.

how many more nights on TV do Americans have to watch seeing their bloodied sons lay dead in some rice paddy?

how many more planes have to be shot out of the sky and their pilots taken prisoner?

However many it takes to achieve strategic victory over all foreign and domestic threats to the United States of America.

jesus christ and they call me the monster.

[Sundiata]

However many it takes to achieve strategic victory over all foreign and domestic threats to the United States of America.

jesus christ and they call me the monster.

I'm no monster, simply a patriot.

[Tombradyonia]

LBJ could have been avoided. Everyone knows Kennedy rigged the election in 1960.

With Nixon, we would have never had a Cuban Missile Crisis, a much smaller Vietnam, and certainly no '65 Act.

"Everyone knows"...

Not exactly. There was plenty of fraud to go around, and even suggestions that the GOP stole California through absentee ballots.
Eventually, recounts were pursued in 11 states, and only 1 changed: Hawaii from Nixon to Kennedy.

The election was held on November 8, 1960. Nixon watched the election returns from his suite at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, while Kennedy watched them at the Kennedy Compound in Hyannis Port, Massachusetts. As the early returns poured in from large Northeastern and Midwestern cities, such as Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago, Kennedy opened a large lead in the popular and electoral votes, and appeared headed for victory. However, as later returns came in from rural and suburban areas in the Midwest, the Rocky Mountain states and the Pacific Coast states, Nixon began to steadily close the gap on Kennedy.

Before midnight, The New York Times had gone to press with the headline "Kennedy Elected President". As the election again became too close to call, Times managing editor Turner Catledge hoped that, as he recalled in his memoirs, "a certain Midwestern mayor would steal enough votes to pull Kennedy through", thus allowing the Times to avoid the embarrassment of announcing the wrong winner, as the Chicago Tribune had memorably done twelve years earlier in announcing that Thomas E. Dewey had defeated President Truman.

Nixon made a speech at about 3 a.m., and hinted that Kennedy might have won the election. News reporters were puzzled, as it was not a formal concession speech. It was not until the afternoon of the next day that Nixon finally conceded the election, and Kennedy claimed his victory.

Of the 3,129 counties and independent cities making returns, Nixon won in 1,857 (59.35%) while Kennedy carried 1,200 (38.35%). "Unpledged" electors came first in 71 counties (2.27%) throughout Louisiana and Mississippi, and one county (0.03%) in Alaska split evenly between Kennedy and Nixon.

A sample of how close the election was can be seen in California, Nixon's home state. Kennedy seemed to have carried the state by 37,000 votes when all of the voting precincts reported, but when the absentee ballots were counted a week later, Nixon came from behind to win the state. Similarly, in Hawaii, it appeared as though Nixon had won there (it was actually called for him early Wednesday morning), but in a recount, Kennedy was able to come from behind and win the state by an extremely narrow margin of 115 votes.

In the national popular vote, Kennedy beat Nixon by less than two tenths of one percentage point (0.17%), the closest popular-vote margin of the 20th century. So close was the popular vote that a shift of 18,858 votes in Illinois and Missouri, both won by Kennedy by less than 1%, would have left both Kennedy and Nixon short of the 269 electoral votes required to win, thus forcing a contingent election in the House of Representatives.

Also, the only problem with the 1965 Voting Rights Act is that it didn't go far enough.

[Torisakia]

He's not George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or FDR, so he automatically gets a 0/10 for me. He did sign the Civil Rights Act into law though, so I'll give him that.

[Sundiata]

Kennedy fairly beat Nixon ? Maybe.

He did.

The Cuban missile crisis was inevitable after the Bay of Pigs which was Kennedy's fault. Nixon knew how to properly oust a commie regime see Chile.

The conditions in Chile and Cuba were not the same. Salvador Allende was democratically elected, Fidel Castro was not. The United States also had greater influence in the Chilean government to sway the direction of policy in a more economically free direction.

Vietnam's communist faction was nationalist and capitalist when they were working with us during WWII Truman failed to capitalize on the relationship which left them no one else to go to but the soviets.

Important to note: Ngo Dinh Diem was never a communist, as he was a practicing Catholic who subscribed to "Person Dignity Theory," the political ideology of the Cần Lao political party.