Glenn Beck reveals "The Plan"

[Gauthier]

Just under 3000 people died in the 11/9 terrorist attacks. And for that the Republican President and Congress started the so called War on Terror. Conservatives will go to war over 3000 people. But ask them to put their tax money into preventing ~45000 deaths a year and they'll have a fucking revolution.

I think it's telling that Healthcare reform 'cannot be rushed' even though thousands die every month but Barack Obama must rush a decision about Afganistan because 'soldiers are dying'. I think it's doubly telling that when it comes to protecting American lives, expending a trilion dollars on war is a justified expenditure but expending it on healthcare isn't cost effective.

It's the Republican Health Care plan. Reduce the expense by reducing the number of people covered.

Well, I'll hand it to them, their plan does have more explosions in it. Maybe that's what healthcare needs; more explosions.

Well, we do have these Death Panels.....

I smell a great new tv show! 'Death Panels'! Every week, they come up with new and creative ways to kill someone's grandma.

And each week they'll have the "She's Fallen and She Can't Get Up!" Award for the most spectacular Grandma Death.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Are you guys criticizing the messager or the message? As far as I'm concerned, the message itself is solid.

So is poop.

Unless you've one too many tacos.

[New Sociopia]

First The 9/12 Project. Now The Plan. He sure has a flair for dramatic and sinister-sounding schemes.
I'll be the personal slave for a month of whoever can come up with the best Beckesque bookdealmoneyspinning talkradiofuelling Conservapublican scheme name.

[The Black Forrest]

Wow, we have come far since five-year plans!

Give him credit. When his "plan" isn't working he can sit back and say it's going to take 100 years for it to work.

When 100 years roll by and people see it was a waste of time; he will be dead.....

[Lunatic Goofballs]

First The 9/12 Project. Now The Plan. He sure has a flair for dramatic and sinister-sounding schemes.
I'll be the personal slave for a month of whoever can come up with the best Beckesque bookdealmoneyspinning talkradiofuelling Conservapublican scheme name.

Re-Independence Day.

[Yootopia]

Glenn Beck has been talking about this for some time...

2. (D)eveloping a 100 year plan... will require unconventional thinking and a radical plan to restore our nation to the maximum freedoms we were supposed to have been protecting, using only the battlefield of ideas.

The problem with democracies is that it's extremely difficult to keep 100 year plans going when you're going to have about 20-ish presidents and 50 different sets of people in Congress all umming and ah-ing about such things, esp. when the immediate benefits are going to come a long time after a few generations of voters have died.

[Milks Empire]

1. I feel less safe in the world due to Obamas apology tour.

Bush (and every other president since Eisenhower, really) made a total ass out of this country. Several of the regions of the world are owed major apologies for our pathetic meddling.

2. I am worried that our economic system will collapse due to the falling dollar and out of control debt

A. Our economic system was set up for collapse by Reagan, not Obama.
B. Clinton's fiscal policies would have had the debt paid off had the GOP not cut taxes for those who need it least.

3. I feel that Marxists radicals have taken over this Administration and Obama is merely a puppet

4. I feel that the Government is no longer "Of the people, by the people and for the People"

It never was. It's been no money, no freedom from the get-go.

5. I feel that this is the calm before a huge storm.

I'd hardly call a 9/11 every month in deaths from easily preventable medical problems a calm.

6. I feel that my rights are being usurped.

Where was this feeling when the USA PATRIOT Act went through?

[Zeppy]

1. I feel less safe in the world due to Obamas apology tour.

Bush (and every other president since Eisenhower, really) made a total ass out of this country. Several of the regions of the world are owed major apologies for our pathetic meddling.

I believe that is because of Robert Taft's influence on Eisenhower but Eisenhower was still meddling in other countries affairs but not to extent that is now.

[Vervaria]

1. I feel less safe in the world due to Obamas apology tour.

Bush (and every other president since Eisenhower, really) made a total ass out of this country. Several of the regions of the world are owed major apologies for our pathetic meddling.

I believe that is because of Robert Taft's influence on Eisenhower but Eisenhower was still meddling in other countries affairs but not to extent that is now.

Wasn't Taft a isolationist? As far as I'm aware he and Eisenhower had little in common on foreign policy.

[The Black Forrest]

Glenn Beck has been talking about this for some time...

2. (D)eveloping a 100 year plan... will require unconventional thinking and a radical plan to restore our nation to the maximum freedoms we were supposed to have been protecting, using only the battlefield of ideas.

The problem with democracies is that it's extremely difficult to keep 100 year plans going when you're going to have about 20-ish presidents and 50 different sets of people in Congress all umming and ah-ing about such things, esp. when the immediate benefits are going to come a long time after a few generations of voters have died.

Oh but that is why you have to "educate" the people to organize. Remember teabagging will solve everything.

I tend to think of Mencken when it comes to the people. Originally printed on July 26, 1920 in an article "Bayard vs. Lionheart" Describing why good men have a difficult time to reach national offices:

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

[Milks Empire]

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

I thought we got that in 2001?

[Gauntleted Fist]

Glenn Beck reveals "The Plan"

Oh joy. A new book on how to 'defeat bipartisan corruption' in D.C.

Yes, that's right, bipartisan corruption. Because, obviously, any conservative that even dreams of working with a liberal for the good of the country or vice versa must be corrupt and trying to destroy the country.

[Zeppy]

1. I feel less safe in the world due to Obamas apology tour.

Bush (and every other president since Eisenhower, really) made a total ass out of this country. Several of the regions of the world are owed major apologies for our pathetic meddling.

I believe that is because of Robert Taft's influence on Eisenhower but Eisenhower was still meddling in other countries affairs but not to extent that is now.

Wasn't Taft a isolationist? As far as I'm aware he and Eisenhower had little in common on foreign policy.

Semi. I believe he supported free trade, which isolationist do not, so he can be most accurately be described as a "non-interventionist." In truth, he do not have common ideals on foreign policy with Eisenhower, but he did keep him in check.

[Kovasckitz]

Good plan, for a book deal at least. He's crazy. Sorry to break it to you people, but he is.

Good repersentations of Glen Beck methinks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10
(Don't watch the announcer, just the hilarous phonecall)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKFYcHKbnk
(Once again, skip the announcer guy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NMoyarAM4
(It's scary how close this is to watching the actual Glen Beck program)

When ever I see him, hear him, think about him, etc, I am forced to think "Really Amercia? Are you that stupid?"

Then I am forced to answer myself "Yes, you are"

No offense to the people who support him, Rush Lim., Sarah P., etc. But watch out for the H1N1 virus vacination, the government is using it to invade your bodies!

EDIT: Alright, this is before I even have posts related to this one pop up... Maybe I was a bit harsh on Glen, but he's no less crazy in these videos than he is in everything else, just a little more understated. BTW check out the links in the first video for the Glen Beck death metal remix. It's my new ringtone.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

According to 2000 people die each year from CAFE standards.

Now let me just stop you right there.

Umm crashing a 59 BelAir into a modern car proves nothing.

[Soratsin]

According to 2000 people die each year from CAFE standards.

Now let me just stop you right there.

Umm crashing a 59 BelAir into a modern car proves nothing.

It proves that more metal doesn't necessarily mean safer, which pretty much shoots down Norquist's argument.

[Natapoc]

No, if corporations ran the white house, we would have low unemployment and taxes. Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions), healthcare reform (favors unions), massive spending (favors Soros, decline in dollar), cap and trade (favors the socialist agenda), card check (unions) etc etc etc.

wow. I'm starting to become confused. I'll just focus on one part of your list to avoid typing all day long...

So I would like to focus on this part: " Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions)"

Illegal immigration is inherently anti union because unions maintain power by scarcity of labor. If you can replace your entire workforce with cheap illegal labor you don't need to negotiate with the union.

Can you explain to me how illegal immigration in any way helps unions?

Secret union of illegal immigrants?

Actually it is more to the point of amnesty for illegal aliens that appeals to unions. Unions maintain power by coercion. They used to be for the workers. Now they dont care about the workers, just thier political power. They are highly motivated to grow thier ranks through the integration of a new "legal" workforce. More "members" means more dues. More dues means greater political influence.

Look at Andy Stern, president of SEIU and Obama. Now, consider this. The "I" in SEIU is INTERNATIONAL. They intend to do this crap all over the world.

First you claimed that unions supported illegal immigration. When called on it you changed your position to ONE union wants a form of legal immigration (amnesty) because according to you they wish to target such people as potential union members.

Is this not significantly different than your claim before?

Of course it is. But his original (and grotesquely uninformed) premise that unions favor illegal immigration is hardly any more absurd then his backpedaling fallback position that Unions want a large influx of new amnestied immigrant labor for "more dues", when in fact a large influx of construction labor would actually dilute the incremental value of each union member. They can't pay dues if there isn't enough work for the guys on the books they already have, which is why a number of regional unions are asking members to NOT come to their markets.

KMA is either absent a grasp of even rudimentary economic principles, or else he's masking as a conservative to make conservatives look foolish.

True. I just want him to take and defend/argue a single position instead of jumping all over the place and using diversion to attempt to distract from discussion of the actual points he brought up.

KiloMikeAlpha, are you willing to explain your position here?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

No, if corporations ran the white house, we would have low unemployment and taxes. Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions), healthcare reform (favors unions), massive spending (favors Soros, decline in dollar), cap and trade (favors the socialist agenda), card check (unions) etc etc etc.

wow. I'm starting to become confused. I'll just focus on one part of your list to avoid typing all day long...

So I would like to focus on this part: " Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions)"

Illegal immigration is inherently anti union because unions maintain power by scarcity of labor. If you can replace your entire workforce with cheap illegal labor you don't need to negotiate with the union.

Can you explain to me how illegal immigration in any way helps unions?

Secret union of illegal immigrants?

Actually it is more to the point of amnesty for illegal aliens that appeals to unions. Unions maintain power by coercion. They used to be for the workers. Now they dont care about the workers, just thier political power. They are highly motivated to grow thier ranks through the integration of a new "legal" workforce. More "members" means more dues. More dues means greater political influence.

Look at Andy Stern, president of SEIU and Obama. Now, consider this. The "I" in SEIU is INTERNATIONAL. They intend to do this crap all over the world.

First you claimed that unions supported illegal immigration. When called on it you changed your position to ONE union wants a form of legal immigration (amnesty) because according to you they wish to target such people as potential union members.

Is this not significantly different than your claim before?

Of course it is. But his original (and grotesquely uninformed) premise that unions favor illegal immigration is hardly any more absurd then his backpedaling fallback position that Unions want a large influx of new amnestied immigrant labor for "more dues", when in fact a large influx of construction labor would actually dilute the incremental value of each union member. They can't pay dues if there isn't enough work for the guys on the books they already have, which is why a number of regional unions are asking members to NOT come to their markets.

KMA is either absent a grasp of even rudimentary economic principles, or else he's masking as a conservative to make conservatives look foolish.

True. I just want him to take and defend/argue a single position instead of jumping all over the place and using diversion to attempt to distract from discussion of the actual points he brought up.

KiloMikeAlpha, are you willing to explain your position here?

Which position is that. I have many positions.

I allready explained it. Unions are for illegal immigration because they can use that expanded work for to fill thier coffers.

Edit: That is why Card Check is a big thing. The unions need to expand into more companies, thereby expanding thier influence.

[Port Arcana]

More sheep to convert. Lovely.

[Avenio]

I allready explained it. Unions are for illegal immigration because they can use that expanded work for to fill thier coffers.

Edit: That is why Card Check is a big thing. The unions need to expand into more companies, thereby expanding thier influence.

So only some of the railroad workers of America should join the Railroad Workers' Union on the basis that because there is more than one company, and the Union can only operate in one?

[Natapoc]

No, if corporations ran the white house, we would have low unemployment and taxes. Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions), healthcare reform (favors unions), massive spending (favors Soros, decline in dollar), cap and trade (favors the socialist agenda), card check (unions) etc etc etc.

wow. I'm starting to become confused. I'll just focus on one part of your list to avoid typing all day long...

So I would like to focus on this part: " Instead, we have rampant illegal immigration (favors unions)"

Illegal immigration is inherently anti union because unions maintain power by scarcity of labor. If you can replace your entire workforce with cheap illegal labor you don't need to negotiate with the union.

Can you explain to me how illegal immigration in any way helps unions?

Secret union of illegal immigrants?

Actually it is more to the point of amnesty for illegal aliens that appeals to unions. Unions maintain power by coercion. They used to be for the workers. Now they dont care about the workers, just thier political power. They are highly motivated to grow thier ranks through the integration of a new "legal" workforce. More "members" means more dues. More dues means greater political influence.

Look at Andy Stern, president of SEIU and Obama. Now, consider this. The "I" in SEIU is INTERNATIONAL. They intend to do this crap all over the world.

First you claimed that unions supported illegal immigration. When called on it you changed your position to ONE union wants a form of legal immigration (amnesty) because according to you they wish to target such people as potential union members.

Is this not significantly different than your claim before?

Of course it is. But his original (and grotesquely uninformed) premise that unions favor illegal immigration is hardly any more absurd then his backpedaling fallback position that Unions want a large influx of new amnestied immigrant labor for "more dues", when in fact a large influx of construction labor would actually dilute the incremental value of each union member. They can't pay dues if there isn't enough work for the guys on the books they already have, which is why a number of regional unions are asking members to NOT come to their markets.

KMA is either absent a grasp of even rudimentary economic principles, or else he's masking as a conservative to make conservatives look foolish.

True. I just want him to take and defend/argue a single position instead of jumping all over the place and using diversion to attempt to distract from discussion of the actual points he brought up.

KiloMikeAlpha, are you willing to explain your position here?

Which position is that. I have many positions.

I allready explained it. Unions are for illegal immigration because they can use that expanded work for to fill thier coffers.

Edit: That is why Card Check is a big thing. The unions need to expand into more companies, thereby expanding thier influence.

Read our conversation again I think you forgot that above you changed your mind and said that the unions are not for illegal immigration but rather for amnesty (which is a form of LEGAL immigration). Of course another poster quoted above demonstrated exactly why the unions would not benefit from amnesty and do not (for the most part) want more union workers at existing job sites.

Please read the quotes above and help me figure out where they are mistaken? thanks.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

I allready explained it. Unions are for illegal immigration because they can use that expanded work for to fill thier coffers.

Edit: That is why Card Check is a big thing. The unions need to expand into more companies, thereby expanding thier influence.

So only some of the railroad workers of America should join the Railroad Workers' Union on the basis that because there is more than one company, and the Union can only operate in one?

Not following you here.

Look. Card check means that employees at a non-union business are not required to vote privately to unionize. They can now form a union buy passing around cards and having a certain number or percentage of people sign them. Now, If some burly looking guy came to you at your job and told you to sign this card or else, you would probably sign, and become unionized. You now get to pay dues, and go on strike whether you want to or not.

Now, here is where illegals come in. SEIU stands for "Service Employees International Union". More workers equals more power.

from SEIU's own mouth CITE

"It is unacceptable to live in a country where millions of workers are living in shadows. The only way to ensure that every job in this country is filled by a legal permanent resident is to get undocumented immigrants out of the underground economy, into the system and under the rule of law. Diverse groups are aligned on the need for a comprehensive solution. Now we need the Administration and Congress to take bold steps, roll up their sleeves and pass smart reforms once and for all."

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Im sorry this wise old Conservative is having to take you all to school, but the facts are there. Sorry if you dont like what they say.

[Unchecked Expansion]

The SEIU quote seems to be in favour of regulating and controlling immigration, rather than ignoring illegal immigrants. I don't see how you get 'they want illegals so they can sign them up' from that. You do have a tendency to cite terribly - if you have decent quotes to back you up, I don't see them.

[Natapoc]

I allready explained it. Unions are for illegal immigration because they can use that expanded work for to fill thier coffers.

Edit: That is why Card Check is a big thing. The unions need to expand into more companies, thereby expanding thier influence.

So only some of the railroad workers of America should join the Railroad Workers' Union on the basis that because there is more than one company, and the Union can only operate in one?

Not following you here.

Look. Card check means that employees at a non-union business are not required to vote privately to unionize. They can now form a union buy passing around cards and having a certain number or percentage of people sign them. Now, If some burly looking guy came to you at your job and told you to sign this card or else, you would probably sign, and become unionized. You now get to pay dues, and go on strike whether you want to or not.

Now, here is where illegals come in. SEIU stands for "Service Employees International Union". More workers equals more power.

from SEIU's own mouth CITE

"It is unacceptable to live in a country where millions of workers are living in shadows. The only way to ensure that every job in this country is filled by a legal permanent resident is to get undocumented immigrants out of the underground economy, into the system and under the rule of law. Diverse groups are aligned on the need for a comprehensive solution. Now we need the Administration and Congress to take bold steps, roll up their sleeves and pass smart reforms once and for all."

The statement you just quoted here contradicts your statement that the union supports illegal immigration. They are specifically asking congress to end the practice of illegal immigration in this quote and to instead open ways for legal immigration. I don't see how you can read that quote and think they are supporting illegal immigration.

Also you have yet to respond to the critiques of your argument which are quoted in my post here: viewtopic.php?p=990849#p990849

You seem to be attempting to dodge the issue.