UK Politics Thread: The Mandelson Effect

[Vassenor]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

No.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

A demilitarised Iran would actually be a bad thing for the UK - and west as a whole - given that in the aftermath of the fall of the regime, Islamists of a different sort like ISIS's Khorasan franchise will be actively trying to gain a foothold in Iran.

[Vassenor]

A demilitarised Iran would actually be a bad thing for the UK - and west as a whole - given that in the aftermath of the fall of the regime, Islamists of a different sort like ISIS's Khorasan franchise will be actively trying to gain a foothold in Iran.

No you see we're not supposed to learn anything from all our attempts at regime change in the Middle East and North Africa this century and the consequences afterwards.

[Philjia]

A demilitarised Iran would actually be a bad thing for the UK - and west as a whole - given that in the aftermath of the fall of the regime, Islamists of a different sort like ISIS's Khorasan franchise will be actively trying to gain a foothold in Iran.

No you see we're not supposed to learn anything from all our attempts at regime change in the Middle East and North Africa this century and the consequences afterwards.

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

[Cole Whyte-Gurney]

I wonder if Isabel Oakeshott is reconsidering the merits of living in Dubai.

[The Archregimancy]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

When do the Iranians get payback for Britain insisting in 1925 that Reza Pahlavi should become Shah rather than establish a republic, the 1941 UK-Soviet occupation of Iran, or the 1953 UK-American coup that overthrew Mosaddegh?

That's the thing with 'payback'. It always tends to be very one-sided, and it doesn't usually take too long to see that both sides might have grounds for being upset with the other.

Best to rise above petty tit-for-tat revenge, I think.

[Cole Whyte-Gurney]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

When do the Iranians get payback for Britain insisting in 1925 that Reza Pahlavi should become Shah rather than establish a republic, the 1941 UK-Soviet occupation of Iran, or the 1953 UK-American coup that overthrew Mosaddegh?

That's the thing with 'payback'. It always tends to be very one-sided, and it doesn't usually take too long to see that both sides might have grounds for being upset with the other.

Best to rise above petty tit-for-tat revenge, I think.

Could be an opportunity for getting even with America for its treason against King George III.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

A demilitarised Iran would actually be a bad thing for the UK - and west as a whole - given that in the aftermath of the fall of the regime, Islamists of a different sort like ISIS's Khorasan franchise will be actively trying to gain a foothold in Iran.

No you see we're not supposed to learn anything from all our attempts at regime change in the Middle East and North Africa this century and the consequences afterwards.

Maybe involve the people and actually install competent leadership before leaving.
Every single screw up is due to the west pulling out and leaving the installed governments with nothing.
Thats what happend in Afghanistan.

[Imperializt Russia]

2029 is 3 years away. Many things will change. The odds of Starmer still somehow being leader of Labour in 2029 are very small, for a start. The Greens have been rising and this by-election will give them a boost. Reform is shedding some votes on its right for not being dickish enough (see Restore Britain), and its tent will continue to fracture. The artificial hatred Farage can whip up can only be sustained for so long.

With how well reform did in gorton and denton.
And the fact advance only got 150 votes.
Id say current evidence is against your hypothesis.

Advance is a different party to Restore Britain.

Restore only formed as an actual party this month (it's still February, right?) and will not have been eligible to stand a candidate for the by-election anyway.

In terms of drugs, I think we should legalise weed, but slap some robust quality standards (to make sure it's grown hygienically and is not diluted with harmful substances), require sellers to have a license (like we do with places that can sell alcohol), require proof of age, and put very high VAT on it (to pay for the above measures, plus a bit more).

But other, "harder", drugs? Maybe not full decriminalisation, but the emphasis needs to be on rehabilitation for users and addicts (maybe with some small element of punishment to serve as a deterrent, e.g. fines rather than prison), and harsh prison sentences for dealers. We don't want to let anything like the fentanyl epidemic in the US happen here.

Even under decriminalisation there are layers. You can criminalise production and distribution, "possession with intent to supply" etc and then just completely decriminalise personal use and possession.

Making it a lesser crime only means people are more likely to commit said crime.
Since the punishment is far less severe so people dont mind the chances of getting caught.
No one asked for drugs to be decriminalised its a rather wacky policy.

Lots of people have been asking for drugs to be decriminalised for decades.

Hell, the criminalisation of drugs is barely a century old.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

With how well reform did in gorton and denton.
And the fact advance only got 150 votes.
Id say current evidence is against your hypothesis.

Advance is a different party to Restore Britain.

Restore only formed as an actual party this month (it's still February, right?) and will not have been eligible to stand a candidate for the by-election anyway

Restore aren't even an official party yet, and I believe Rupert Lowe currently sits as an independent or under the banner of something else he founded last year - Great Yarmouth First.

[Celritannia]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Fuck no.

[Imperializt Russia]

I think if you conduct an election campaign in foreign languages while waving foreign flags and focusing on a specific foreign ethnoreligious conflict then it is reasonable to say that your campaign is sectarian in nature. Whether that is a good or bad thing is down to individual judgement. Some - such as the not-far-right Francis Fukuyama - would say that sectarianism is a natural phenomenon in elections held in diverse jurisdctions where there is no strong civic identity.

Has he emerged from the slab of Carbonite he froze himself in 1992 to retract his claim that "history has ended"?

People can retain their languages. One of my parent's families spoke some Finnish at home, and were active in the Finnish-language community. A leaflet in Finnish would have connected with them more than a generic English one. Is that so bad? Are you unable to cope with people speaking languages other than yours in their own private homes?

I am talking about people who speak foreign languages with a tiny fraction of English-speaking ability. They are too lazy to speak English. They need everything their way, don't they?.

Like the Welsh?

I see we're indulging the far right by actually replying to them again.

Anyway, I saw a post about drug policy earlier, so let's talk about that. We should adopt Portugal's system - it's proven to work and is easily replicable.

Iv made my point about how ignoring them does more damage than responding to them.
But anyways.
Do you have evidence on the Portuguese system working?

This has already been provided to you.

Yes. In short:

• Drug-related deaths have remained below the EU average since 2001
• The proportion of prisoners sentenced for drugs has fallen from 40% to 15%
• Rates of drug use have remained consistently below the EU average

I mean its worth doing some trials and seeing how they go.
There is no fault in trying it via some limited roll outs.
Issue is getting public opinion on it

The British voter is not interested in fact. They are interest in how they can punish their perceived social lesser.

[Imperializt Russia]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Oh hi Sai, what brings you back to the Blighty thread?

No, we have no appetite for that here, politically or socially. While cuts to the military aren't the reason we're staying out, the environment they have occurred in - a stretched public purse - are probably a major reason why we are staying the fuck away from aggressive actions in Iran.

We are, however, running defensive operations to protect the various mideast allies we have, and defend our own bases. John Healey claimed the British base on Cyprus was targeted. Not sure I believe him on his own credentials atm so I'll wait for some more information on that one.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Only if our armed forces was not utterly destroyed by budget cuts and the loss of moral from the war crimes trials.

[Camtropia]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Only if our armed forces was not utterly destroyed by budget cuts and the loss of moral from the war crimes trials.

Or, you know, because it would be really unpopular for the government to drag this country into another one of America and Israel's stupid Middle Eastern wars, and throw another batch of British troops into the meatgrinder for the benefit of American oil companies and Netanyahu remaining in office.

[Imperializt Russia]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Only if our armed forces was not utterly destroyed by budget cuts and the loss of moral from the war crimes trials.

Have you considered simply not doing war crimes? Millions of servicepeople manage it every day.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

Only if our armed forces was not utterly destroyed by budget cuts and the loss of moral from the war crimes trials.

Or, you know, because it would be really unpopular for the government to drag this country into another one of America and Israel's stupid Middle Eastern wars, and throw another batch of British troops into the meatgrinder for the benefit of American oil companies and Netanyahu remaining in office.

Of course.
Though destroying the terrorist iranian state does more than just helping Israel and the US.
It ends a main funder of islamic terrorism.
Though the Saudis also have to answer for that as well.

[Vassenor]

Or, you know, because it would be really unpopular for the government to drag this country into another one of America and Israel's stupid Middle Eastern wars, and throw another batch of British troops into the meatgrinder for the benefit of American oil companies and Netanyahu remaining in office.

Of course.
Though destroying the terrorist iranian state does more than just helping Israel and the US.
It ends a main funder of islamic terrorism.

You're thinking of the Saudis.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

Of course.
Though destroying the terrorist iranian state does more than just helping Israel and the US.
It ends a main funder of islamic terrorism.

You're thinking of the Saudis.

Iran and the Saudis.
The axis of terroism.
Iran funds Shia groups like hamas.
The saudis fund sunni groups.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

You're thinking of the Saudis.

Iran and the Saudis.
The axis of terroism.
Iran funds Shia groups like hamas.
The saudis fund sunni groups.

It's not that distinct - Hamas is a Sunni group. Hezbollah, Shia. Iran didn't operate along religious lines in that way.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

Iran and the Saudis.
The axis of terroism.
Iran funds Shia groups like hamas.
The saudis fund sunni groups.

It's not that distinct - Hamas is a Sunni group. Hezbollah, Shia. Iran didn't operate along religious lines in that way.

True.
Though both states are still resposible for funding terror groups.

[Ifreann]

The UK should consider getting in on attacking Iran with the US and Israel. This would obstensibly get payback for Iran's navy detaining British personnel back in 2007. This is the window of time to destroy Iran's navy.

Only if our armed forces was not utterly destroyed by budget cuts and the loss of moral from the war crimes trials.

Must be very upsetting for soldiers to know that if they were to murder civilians of their own nation then they might, decades later, face some scrutiny for their actions.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

Maldivian government ‘exploring options’ to challenge PM’s plan to cede sovereignty of the archipelago to Mauritius
The Maldives is now fighting over the chagos islands with their own claim.
I swear this is getting ridiculous now.
Its like that scene from finding nemo with the seagulls yelling mine, mine, mine.

[Velstrania]

A demilitarised Iran would actually be a bad thing for the UK - and west as a whole - given that in the aftermath of the fall of the regime, Islamists of a different sort like ISIS's Khorasan franchise will be actively trying to gain a foothold in Iran.

I'm not sure why nobody seems to have informed trump of this.
Knocking out the Iranian regime is effectively pressing the terrorist spawn button.

[-Eldorado-]

Or, you know, because it would be really unpopular for the government to drag this country into another one of America and Israel's stupid Middle Eastern wars, and throw another batch of British troops into the meatgrinder for the benefit of American oil companies and Netanyahu remaining in office.

Of course.
Though destroying the terrorist iranian state does more than just helping Israel and the US.
It ends a main funder of islamic terrorism.
Though the Saudis also have to answer for that as well.

i love going to war for israel