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The Problem about [Radical] Islam (especially to Turks)

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Northern Seleucia
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Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:59 am

Island of Manx wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:-snip-

Even Jews recognize "judeo-christian" isn't a thing.

Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.

Wikipedia wrote:The Jewish community's attitude towards the concept has been mixed.

You can learn more by reading the book American Judaism, A History by Johnathan Sarna.


El Lazaro wrote:It’s ok when a 1000 year old church in the Holy Land gets bombed, intentionally killing innocent Christians and recklessly damaging a historical site of cultural heritage (at least it wasn’t a SBC/non-denom McMegachurch), but God forbid a secular state in which part of the population follows a religion that views Christians as heretics reaps the consequences of escalating a 75 year petty ethnic conflict. Peak Christian nationalism. :rofl:

Wrong thread, for the record.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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El Lazaro
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:00 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:It’s ok when a 1000 year old church in the Holy Land gets bombed, intentionally killing innocent Christians and recklessly damaging a historical site of cultural heritage (at least it wasn’t a SBC/non-denom McMegachurch), but God forbid a secular state in which part of the population follows a religion that views Christians as heretics reaps the consequences of escalating a 75 year petty ethnic conflict. Peak Christian nationalism. :rofl:

Wrong thread, for the record.

Is that really all you have to say for yourself?

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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:02 pm

El Lazaro wrote:

Is that really all you have to say for yourself?

No, I can argue on it, but this isn't the thread for it. I have discussed it in the Israel thread and with people on my Telegrams. I can continue arguing it. But this isn't the thread for it.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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El Lazaro
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby El Lazaro » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:04 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
El Lazaro wrote:Is that really all you have to say for yourself?

No, I can argue on it, but this isn't the thread for it. I have discussed it in the Israel thread and with people on my Telegrams. I can continue arguing it. But this isn't the thread for it.

Then respond on the Israel thread, and I will follow if I think it’s worth replying to.

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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:06 pm

El Lazaro wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:No, I can argue on it, but this isn't the thread for it. I have discussed it in the Israel thread and with people on my Telegrams. I can continue arguing it. But this isn't the thread for it.

Then respond on the Israel thread, and I will follow if I think it’s worth replying to.

Already did some time ago. In summary since I doubt you will bother with it, the church was not targeted, it was an adjacent building that Hamas set up a command center it. The church received minor damage. Tragic. It's war. It happens, and buildings are damaged. Now, back on topic.

For the record, the topic ends there and I won't reply to anything else related to the Israel thread here. This is the Radical Islam thread.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The United States of America
"That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
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National News: "Pet Parrot Exposes Neighbor's Affair—Screams 'Not Again!' During Dinner Party" | Chess Tournament Ends in Chaos as Competitor Flips Table Over 'Unfair Move'—It Was Checkmate | Masked Robber Apologizes Mid-Heist for 'Interrupting Family Dinner'—Politely Takes Dessert To-Go | Scientists Baffled as Local Man Successfully Discovers Fountain of Youth—Turns Out to Be an Overpriced Moisturizer

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Kaumudeen
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Founded: Nov 29, 2023
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kaumudeen » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:10 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Island of Manx wrote:Even Jews recognize "judeo-christian" isn't a thing.

Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.

Wikipedia wrote:The Jewish community's attitude towards the concept has been mixed.

You can learn more by reading the book American Judaism, A History by Johnathan Sarna.




Doesn't the Talmud insult and condemn Jesus and Mary?' So much for Judeo-Christianity.
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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:13 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.


You can learn more by reading the book American Judaism, A History by Johnathan Sarna.




Doesn't the Talmud insult and condemn Jesus and Mary?' So much for Judeo-Christianity.

Wikipedia wrote:Catholic authorities accused the Talmud of blasphemous references to Jesus and Mary. Jewish scholars refuted these claims, stating that there were no references to Jesus in the Talmud and that names like Joshua were common and unrelated to Jesus.These disputations led to the removal of many references from subsequent editions of the Talmud.

No, it doesn't.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The United States of America
"That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
American Imperialist - Evangelical Christian
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National News: "Pet Parrot Exposes Neighbor's Affair—Screams 'Not Again!' During Dinner Party" | Chess Tournament Ends in Chaos as Competitor Flips Table Over 'Unfair Move'—It Was Checkmate | Masked Robber Apologizes Mid-Heist for 'Interrupting Family Dinner'—Politely Takes Dessert To-Go | Scientists Baffled as Local Man Successfully Discovers Fountain of Youth—Turns Out to Be an Overpriced Moisturizer

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The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:14 pm

Radical Islam is a problem, yes, and so is genocide denialism.
ɪsʟᴀᴍɪᴄ ᴇᴍɪʀᴀᴛᴇ ᴏғ ᴀғɢʜᴀɴɪsᴛᴀɴ ᴛʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ɴᴏ ɢᴏᴅ ʙᴜᴛ ᴀʟʟᴀʜ
Yes, you read the name right: it's the country the Taliban has taken back control of. Curbing women's rights and freedoms ever since Muhammad started preaching Islam across the Middle East.
A puppet of the Imperial State of Ateria, a staunch opponent of imperialism by caliphates and other Islamic theocracies. Psst, I see dead people. Say, Muhammad, I hear you like 'em young. Tryna strike a chord and it's probably a minooooooooooor.

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Aber Antarctica
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Aber Antarctica » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:15 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.


You can learn more by reading the book American Judaism, A History by Johnathan Sarna.




Doesn't the Talmud insult and condemn Jesus and Mary?' So much for Judeo-Christianity.


We're basically brothers who tend to fight...a lot. Sometimes, however, it can get heated. Commonplace for brethren? We disagree on a LOT of things.

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Western European Khilafat
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Western European Khilafat » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:16 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.

Some Muslims, are violently radical but that doesn't mean all.
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Western European Khilafat
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Postby Western European Khilafat » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:18 pm

My challenge to you who keep arguing Islam in its core tenets praise violence and other morally dubious things- show me. In qur'an, or in a hadith that ALIGNS WITH THE QURAN, and in the context of the entire surah.

I don't want the sword verse bullcrap. I want 5-6 or so lines around your problematic verse as context.
Add me on Discord: thetrueottomanilab
This nation DOES represent my views. I'm an Islamist and there's very little you can do to change that.
FREE PALESTINE. VICTORY TO THE MARTYRS.
May Allah take all sleep from the oppressors and thieves who call themselves states.
Dear Dr Beeching, I hope you rotate by an uncomfortable amount in your grave.
Ello!
I'm Otto- you'd know me as Alpistan or Hannoura, and yes, I was Roman Khilafa al Cordoba.
I'm a railfan, and I like Assyriology.
Nationality: BANGLADESHI by heritage but ENGLISH by birth

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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:20 pm

Western European Khilafat wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:Correction: Some Jews, even Many Jews, don't recognize, but that doesn't mean them all.

Some Muslims, are violently radical but that doesn't mean all.

Correct. This goes for any religion in particular. I never said this. In my opening post, I even specificed that I don't like the religion itself or hardliners, but I am more than friendly with Muslims themselves who aren't radicals, or Liberal Muslims.
Last edited by Northern Seleucia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaumudeen
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Founded: Nov 29, 2023
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kaumudeen » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:29 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Kaumudeen wrote:
Doesn't the Talmud insult and condemn Jesus and Mary?' So much for Judeo-Christianity.

Wikipedia wrote:Catholic authorities accused the Talmud of blasphemous references to Jesus and Mary. Jewish scholars refuted these claims, stating that there were no references to Jesus in the Talmud and that names like Joshua were common and unrelated to Jesus.These disputations led to the removal of many references from subsequent editions of the Talmud.

No, it doesn't.


From The Talmud wrote:Sanhedrin 43a[77] relates the trial and execution of a sorcerer named Jesus (Yeshu in Hebrew) and his five disciples. The sorcerer is stoned and hanged on the Eve of Passover.

Sanhedrin 107[79] tells of a Jesus ("Yeshu") who "offended his teacher by paying too much attention to the inn-keeper's wife. Jesus wished to be forgiven, but [his rabbi] was too slow to forgive him, and Jesus in despair went away and put up a brick [idol] and worshipped it."

In Gittin 56b and 57a,[81] a story is told in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of “Yeshu the Nazarene”, who had “sought to harm Israel”. Yeshu describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement.
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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:32 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:
No, it doesn't.


From The Talmud wrote:Sanhedrin 43a[77] relates the trial and execution of a sorcerer named Jesus (Yeshu in Hebrew) and his five disciples. The sorcerer is stoned and hanged on the Eve of Passover.

Sanhedrin 107[79] tells of a Jesus ("Yeshu") who "offended his teacher by paying too much attention to the inn-keeper's wife. Jesus wished to be forgiven, but [his rabbi] was too slow to forgive him, and Jesus in despair went away and put up a brick [idol] and worshipped it."

In Gittin 56b and 57a,[81] a story is told in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of “Yeshu the Nazarene”, who had “sought to harm Israel”. Yeshu describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement.

Wikipedia wrote:Most Talmudic stories which figure around an individual named "Yeshu" are framed in time periods which do not synchronize with one other, nor do they align with the scholarly consensus of Jesus' lifetime, with chronological discrepancies sometimes amounting to as much as a century before or after the accepted dates of Jesus' birth and death.
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Kaumudeen
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kaumudeen » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:35 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:
Kaumudeen wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:Most Talmudic stories which figure around an individual named "Yeshu" are framed in time periods which do not synchronize with one other, nor do they align with the scholarly consensus of Jesus' lifetime, with chronological discrepancies sometimes amounting to as much as a century before or after the accepted dates of Jesus' birth and death.


Even if what you assert is the case, the general consensus is that Jews have an unfavourable opinion of Jesus. Unlike Muslims.
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Northern Seleucia
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Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:36 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:


Even if what you assert is the case, the general consensus is that Jews have an unfavourable opinion of Jesus. Unlike Muslims.

Regardless of their opinions of Jesus, if he was the Messiah (as Christians and Muslims believe in, IIRC Isa al-Masih), that doesn't change the fact that Christian spawned from Judaism and they share the same basic values.
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National News: "Pet Parrot Exposes Neighbor's Affair—Screams 'Not Again!' During Dinner Party" | Chess Tournament Ends in Chaos as Competitor Flips Table Over 'Unfair Move'—It Was Checkmate | Masked Robber Apologizes Mid-Heist for 'Interrupting Family Dinner'—Politely Takes Dessert To-Go | Scientists Baffled as Local Man Successfully Discovers Fountain of Youth—Turns Out to Be an Overpriced Moisturizer

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Kaumudeen
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Kaumudeen » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:46 pm

Wolfstruppen wrote:
Nightralia wrote:
yeah well everyone talks about the Iranian Revolution as the main culprit for radicalism and all, but you must remember that it was originally seen by most of the people as an upgrade from the previous regime: the Shah, who was secular, sure, but very corrupt and authoritarian. Seeing that replaced by a 'democratic republic', if only in name, would have been good for most people.

no, the real problem all started when the UK and US (who else but CIA) overthrew Mosaddegh, the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in a really shadowy coup, egged on by the two devils Eisenhower and Churchill when all he did was implement progressive policies and try to nationalise Iranian oil. Apparently that was too commie of him.


I think it has less to do with communism and more to do with the oil part, ngl.

Churchill was always pragmatic, seeing oil get put into the hands of the government and not the private sector seemed to Churchill as a means of cutting off oil from the UK, so he responded as he did.


Like for real if you delve into Churchill's policies, views and plots he was no better than Hitler.
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Western European Khilafat
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Western European Khilafat » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:49 pm

Kaumudeen wrote:
Wolfstruppen wrote:
I think it has less to do with communism and more to do with the oil part, ngl.

Churchill was always pragmatic, seeing oil get put into the hands of the government and not the private sector seemed to Churchill as a means of cutting off oil from the UK, so he responded as he did.


Like for real if you delve into Churchill's policies, views and plots he was no better than Hitler.

He himself believed in the Aryanist theory.
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FREE PALESTINE. VICTORY TO THE MARTYRS.
May Allah take all sleep from the oppressors and thieves who call themselves states.
Dear Dr Beeching, I hope you rotate by an uncomfortable amount in your grave.
Ello!
I'm Otto- you'd know me as Alpistan or Hannoura, and yes, I was Roman Khilafa al Cordoba.
I'm a railfan, and I like Assyriology.
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Syndicasia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Syndicasia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:33 pm

Nightralia wrote:yeah well everyone talks about the Iranian Revolution as the main culprit for radicalism and all, but you must remember that it was originally seen by most of the people as an upgrade from the previous regime: the Shah, who was secular, sure, but very corrupt and authoritarian. Seeing that replaced by a 'democratic republic', if only in name, would have been good for most people.

no, the real problem all started when the UK and US (who else but CIA) overthrew Mosaddegh, the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in a really shadowy coup, egged on by the two devils Eisenhower and Churchill when all he did was implement progressive policies and try to nationalise Iranian oil. Apparently that was too commie of him.


The Shah himself did most of what Mosaddegh would've done, including women's suffrage, expansion of state monopolies, multiple 5 year plans, widespread nationalization of resources and land, urbanization and ironically enough nationalizing oil himself in 1977!

The Shah for a fact was progressive himself through his "White Revolution" which had popular support, and his regime disenfranchised the small producers (which makes it even more progressive), and these small producers formed the social basis for the reactionary revolution that happened in 1979 amongst economic strife that struck the entire world due to oil prices and a disruption in the flow of capital due to recession happening in the USA. The late 1970s and early 1980s were a very difficult time for people across the world, safe to say.

It was the immortal crime of charlatans pretending to be Marxists such as Hoxha to support this "revolution" and the crime of the Tudeh to support it, obviously supporting their execution in the long run; communists working with reactionaries in their revolutions will without fail lead to said communists being killed.

Workers during this revolution tried to form workers' councils, and the Islamic Republic dismantled them and was extremely repressive towards labor. Never forget!
Last edited by Syndicasia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:36 pm

Syndicasia wrote:
Nightralia wrote:yeah well everyone talks about the Iranian Revolution as the main culprit for radicalism and all, but you must remember that it was originally seen by most of the people as an upgrade from the previous regime: the Shah, who was secular, sure, but very corrupt and authoritarian. Seeing that replaced by a 'democratic republic', if only in name, would have been good for most people.

no, the real problem all started when the UK and US (who else but CIA) overthrew Mosaddegh, the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in a really shadowy coup, egged on by the two devils Eisenhower and Churchill when all he did was implement progressive policies and try to nationalise Iranian oil. Apparently that was too commie of him.


The Shah himself did most of what Mosaddegh would've done, including women's suffrage, expansion of state monopolies, multiple 5 year plans, widespread nationalization of resources and land, urbanization and ironically enough nationalizing oil himself in 1977!

The Shah for a fact was progressive himself through his "White Revolution" which had popular support, and his regime disenfranchised the small producers (which makes it even more progressive), and these small producers formed the social basis for the reactionary revolution that happened in 1979 amongst economic strife that struck the entire world due to oil prices and a disruption in the flow of capital due to recession happening in the USA. The late 1970s and early 1980s were a very difficult time for people across the world, safe to say.

Is this a defense of the Shah? No judgement, defend what you want; just you defending the Shah (if this was the case) shocks me.
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Syndicasia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Syndicasia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:40 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:Is this a defense of the Shah? No judgement, defend what you want; just you defending the Shah (if this was the case) shocks me.


I am only defending him from the general "anti-imperialist" narrative that most leftists follow because a lot of this so-called anti-imperialism just means rallying behind whoever yells that they hate the West, no matter how reactionary. I hate western imperialism as well (but also Eastern imperialism which many leftists rally behind out of dumb campism), but I would never support anything against it other than an international labor movement by the workers and lead by the communist party, who is nothing more than the most class conscious workers.

In the case of Iran, the Shah is portrayed as an evil reactionary comprador, but such was not the case. He was very much national bourgeois and progressive compared to what Iran had in the past. Moreover, any development that happened in Iran after 1979 is either due to some policies not changing or granting concessions to Russia and/or China.

As Lenin put it:
But this Kievsky argument is wrong. Imperialism is as much our “mortal” enemy as is capitalism. That is so. No Marxist will forget, however, that capitalism is progressive compared with feudalism, and that imperialism is progressive compared with pre-monopoly capitalism. Hence, it is not every struggle against imperialism that we should support. We will not support a struggle of the reactionary classes against imperialism; we will not support an uprising of the reactionary classes against imperialism and capitalism.
Last edited by Syndicasia on Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Damn those who talk about dogmas. There has yet to be a renegade who did not use this word. Mao Tse Tung compared it with “cow shit”. Well, bon apetit!
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Northern Seleucia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:45 pm

Syndicasia wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:Is this a defense of the Shah? No judgement, defend what you want; just you defending the Shah (if this was the case) shocks me.


I am only defending him from the general "anti-imperialist" narrative that most leftists follow because a lot of this so-called anti-imperialism just means rallying behind whoever yells that they hate the West, no matter how reactionary. I hate western imperialism as well (but also Eastern imperialism which many leftists rally behind out of dumb campism), but I would never support anything against it other than an international labor movement by the workers and lead by the communist party, who is nothing more than the most class conscious workers.

In the case of Iran, the Shah is portrayed as an evil reactionary comprador, but such was not the case. He was very much national bourgeois.

As Lenin put it:
But this Kievsky argument is wrong. Imperialism is as much our “mortal” enemy as is capitalism. That is so. No Marxist will forget, however, that capitalism is progressive compared with feudalism, and that imperialism is progressive compared with pre-monopoly capitalism. Hence, it is not every struggle against imperialism that we should support. We will not support a struggle of the reactionary classes against imperialism; we will not support an uprising of the reactionary classes against imperialism and capitalism.

So, do you prefer him over the current regime if you had to make a choice?
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Syndicasia
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Posts: 281
Founded: Aug 20, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby Syndicasia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:50 pm

Northern Seleucia wrote:So, do you prefer him over the current regime if you had to make a choice?

I am of the opinion that Iran would've been far better if the Iranian Revolution either didn't happen, failed, or established a Democratic/People's Republic. None of these are socialist or communist, but infinitely better than the current theocratic regime, both economically and socially.

But Iran currently is an imperialist power in its own right, so as far as I, as a communist, am concerned, I would support organization of workers (with a focus on feminism and secularism/atheism) in the context of Iran, obviously as part of a broad labor movement.
Damn those who talk about dogmas. There has yet to be a renegade who did not use this word. Mao Tse Tung compared it with “cow shit”. Well, bon apetit!
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Northern Seleucia
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Posts: 5441
Founded: Aug 29, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Northern Seleucia » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:54 pm

Syndicasia wrote:
Northern Seleucia wrote:So, do you prefer him over the current regime if you had to make a choice?

I am of the opinion that Iran would've been far better if the Iranian Revolution either didn't happen, failed, or established a Democratic/People's Republic. None of these are socialist or communist, but infinitely better than the current theocratic regime, both economically and socially.

But Iran currently is an imperialist power in its own right, so as far as I, as a communist, am concerned, I would support organization of workers (with a focus on feminism and secularism/atheism) in the context of Iran, obviously as part of a broad labor movement.

Do you think religion and communism are compatible? For the sake of this thread, Islam and Communism. Do you think Islam and Communism are compatible?
The United States of America
"That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
American Imperialist - Evangelical Christian
Слава Україні! - Stand with Israel
Overview | Encyclopedia Americana | The World | About Me| My Inspiration in Two Videos
National News: "Pet Parrot Exposes Neighbor's Affair—Screams 'Not Again!' During Dinner Party" | Chess Tournament Ends in Chaos as Competitor Flips Table Over 'Unfair Move'—It Was Checkmate | Masked Robber Apologizes Mid-Heist for 'Interrupting Family Dinner'—Politely Takes Dessert To-Go | Scientists Baffled as Local Man Successfully Discovers Fountain of Youth—Turns Out to Be an Overpriced Moisturizer

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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:46 pm

Western European Khilafat wrote:
Liberal Malaysia wrote:-snip because 30% of this is squealing and crying about Iran.

Editing a quote like this is tantamount to flame-baiting. While I appreciate that these topics can elicit strong emotions, it's possible to snip down content without taking digs at other people and trying to elicit a negative response. I'm giving you an unofficial warning for flame-baiting. You've been here for a little while, so let's try to conduct ourselves accordingly.
This nation is basically my excuse to write about melancholic girls composing pretentious poetry and riding horses through hills and deserts.

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