What do you think of Communism

[Theodorable]

Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about.

What part of "This country wasn't socialist, stop acting like it was." do you not understand.

Because it's actually cult-like how you're excluding movements that are overwhelmingly recognized as socialist to go "actually, they're not because I said so!" because you are even more extreme than those movements

Blacks were once overwhelmingly recognized as being below whites once. This is moronic appeal to popularity type shit.

We've already explained why the Soviet Union and these other countries weren't socialist. This isn't a matter of "nuh uh", it's a matter of you whining and throwing a fit over the fact that your favorite "socialist country" to bash was capitalist all along.

[Theodorable]

"Materialist analysis of an economic system is worthless". Never step foot in an economics class dawg.

Yes, so you're both not able to provide any serious rebuttal to our evidence that the Soviet Union fits the bill of capitalism and you're not even able to come up with a joking "counter-argument" either. What a joke.

You haven't presented any argument, you just say it is because you have decided it is so.

... Have you... not been paying attention?

Commodity production, which is the production of goods for the purposes of generating profit (as opposed to production on a human need basis), is not socialist or communist.

The Soviet Union practiced commodity production.

The Soviet Union was not socialist.

Wrap this around your head. It's incredibly simple to, but I don't think you will since you don't want to.

[Great Khavar]

If you hold materialist analysis to be worthless, that would explain why you seem to base your beliefs on pure vibes.

As opposed to you saying that the first Communist-led country was actually capitalist? Projection.

In the (admittedly likely futile) interest of making some progress here, would you care to actually say what you think capitalism and communism are?

[Port Carverton]

Because it's actually cult-like how you're excluding movements that are overwhelmingly recognized as socialist to go "actually, they're not because I said so!" because you are even more extreme than those movements

Blacks were once overwhelmingly recognized as being below whites once. This is moronic appeal to popularity type shit.

We've already explained why the Soviet Union and these other countries weren't socialist. This isn't a matter of "nuh uh", it's a matter of you whining and throwing a fit over the fact that your favorite "socialist country" to bash was capitalist all along.

Except, those people called themselves socialists, were recognized as socialist and still are. Like I don't know why you deny they were socialist other than them not being radical enough for you

[Theodorable]

Blacks were once overwhelmingly recognized as being below whites once. This is moronic appeal to popularity type shit.

We've already explained why the Soviet Union and these other countries weren't socialist. This isn't a matter of "nuh uh", it's a matter of you whining and throwing a fit over the fact that your favorite "socialist country" to bash was capitalist all along.

Except, those people called themselves socialists, were recognized as socialist and still are. Like I don't know why you deny they were socialist other than them not being radical enough for you

You're still appealing to popularity instead of any actual argument. Come back to me when you have an actual understanding of what Marxian socialism/communism entails.

Imagine sitting here and telling me I'm appealing to a "no true scotsman" argument when your entire argument thus so far has consisted of popularity fallacies and going "nuh uh" to any evidence shown to your face.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just curious now Carv.

Rate on a scale of 0 to 10 how socialist you think the People's Republic of China of 2024 is.

[Cessarea]

I'm not aware of any formal recognition of private property in that Constitution. Unless you believe personal property doesn't exist and it's all privste property, in which case... my condolences.

You do realize that there is no distinction between private and personal property in Marxism, right? You do realize that communism entails the socialization of *all* property... right?

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

As for Article 7 and 9, I'm not sure what you hoped to prove by highlighting them. That collective workplaces did not su mit fully to the planned economy? I don't know under what definition of private property you're operating wherein a worker collective or association of individual farmers or crasftspersons can be equated to a standard capitalist enterprise, as if the difference in ownership from a burgeois to the proletariat working on that property has no impact or say on the overall economy.

[Port Carverton]

Just curious now Carv.

Rate on a scale of 0 to 10 how socialist you think the People's Republic of China of 2024 is.

0

But before you go 'aha!', China is in no way similar to the Soviet economy

[Theodorable]

You do realize that there is no distinction between private and personal property in Marxism, right? You do realize that communism entails the socialization of *all* property... right?

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

As for Article 7 and 9, I'm not sure what you hoped to prove by highlighting them. That collective workplaces did not su mit fully to the planned economy? I don't know under what definition of private property you're operating wherein a worker collective or association of individual farmers or crasftspersons can be equated to a standard capitalist enterprise, as if the difference in ownership from a burgeois to the proletariat working on that property has no impact or say on the overall economy.

Private property and private enterprise in any manner is capitalist. End of story.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just curious now Carv.

Rate on a scale of 0 to 10 how socialist you think the People's Republic of China of 2024 is.

0

But before you go 'aha!', China is in no way similar to the Soviet economy

well at least you realise that the country with bank runs is 100% capitalist.

[Theodorable]

Just curious now Carv.

Rate on a scale of 0 to 10 how socialist you think the People's Republic of China of 2024 is.

0

But before you go 'aha!', China is in no way similar to the Soviet economy

Mao's literally self-proclaimed state capitalism, which was built and inspired by the Soviet economy, was not capitalism. Facts, brother. So true, my friend.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Misguided but well intentioned at best, just as Evil as Fascism at worst


As a disclaimer: I am pro unions and worker democracies, I think employees should be able to elect their bosses and unionize and stuff

My problem with Communism is 3 things:

1. It puts too much faith into humanity. Humans are naturally selfish creatures, and communism would only truly work on like an island with a small group of ppl with limited resources becuase in a situation like I described, being selfish/greedy would only result in your death.

2.It denies the importance of the individual. The individual is sacred. Without individuality we are simply a cog in the machine of whatever greater goal society wants us to participate in. Without the individual society is creatively stunted because pursuing your own goals and dreams in discouraged in order to provide for the needs of the collective.

3. Its an “Us vs Them” Ideology. Communism is always about the revolution against the bougies. It’s always Proletariat vs Bourgeoisie. This means it is an inherent “Us vs Them” ideology. “Us vs Them” is a philosophy as old as time, and is pretty much the root of all genocides, bigotry, hate, most wars, and conflict as a whole. Dehumanizing or turning the opposing side into “Them” simply denies the individual experiences of both the people you trying unite against your enemies by assuming everyone who isn’t “them” acts and behaves the same and also denies the individual experience of your enemies by assuming “them” all act the same and have the same goals and opinions. It’s ironic how communists hate fascists when fascism is also an ideology based around the philosophy of “Us vs Them” .

[Great Khavar]

You do realize that there is no distinction between private and personal property in Marxism, right? You do realize that communism entails the socialization of *all* property... right?

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

As for Article 7 and 9, I'm not sure what you hoped to prove by highlighting them. That collective workplaces did not su mit fully to the planned economy? I don't know under what definition of private property you're operating wherein a worker collective or association of individual farmers or crasftspersons can be equated to a standard capitalist enterprise, as if the difference in ownership from a burgeois to the proletariat working on that property has no impact or say on the overall economy.

Capitalism is not defined by questions of ownership, but rather by the presence of generalised commodity production. Government or worker owned enterprises are still participants in the capitalist mode of production.

[Cessarea]

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

As for Article 7 and 9, I'm not sure what you hoped to prove by highlighting them. That collective workplaces did not su mit fully to the planned economy? I don't know under what definition of private property you're operating wherein a worker collective or association of individual farmers or crasftspersons can be equated to a standard capitalist enterprise, as if the difference in ownership from a burgeois to the proletariat working on that property has no impact or say on the overall economy.

Private property and private enterprise in any manner is capitalist. End of story.

In that case, I'd like to reiterate my previous position: my condolences.

[Distruzio]

Anathema

[Great Khavar]

Just curious now Carv.

Rate on a scale of 0 to 10 how socialist you think the People's Republic of China of 2024 is.

0

But before you go 'aha!', China is in no way similar to the Soviet economy

Ah, but they call themselves communist and are ruled by the Chinese Communist Party! Therefore, by your understanding, they must be communist!

[Theodorable]

Misguided but well intentioned at best, just as Evil as Fascism at worst


As a disclaimer: I am pro unions and worker democracies, I think employees should be able to elect their bosses and unionize and stuff

My problem with Communism is 3 things:

1. It puts too much faith into humanity. Humans are naturally selfish creatures, and communism would only truly work on like an island with a small group of ppl with limited recourses becuase in a situation like I described, being selfish/greedy would only result in your death.

2.It denies the importance of the individual. The individual is sacred. Without individuality we are simply a cog in the machine of whatever greater goal society wants us to participate in. Without the individual society is creatively stunted because pursuing your own goals and dreams in discouraged in order to provide for the needs of the collective.

3z Its an “Us vs Them” Ideology. Communism is always about the revolution against the bougies. It’s always Proletariat vs Bourgeoisie. This means it is an inherent “Us vs Them” ideology. “Us vs Them” is a philosophy as old as time, and is pretty much the root of all genocides, bigotry, hate, most wars, and conflict as a whole. Dehumanizing or turning the opposing side into “Them” simply denies the individual experiences of both the people you trying unite against your enemies by assuming everyone who isn’t “them” acts and behaves the same and also denies the individual experience of your enemies by assuming “them” all act the same and have the same goals and opinions. It’s ironic how communists hate fascists when fascist Ian is also an ideology based around the philosophy of “Us vs Them” .

chatgpt ahh answer

1. Humanity is not naturally selfish. See the entirety of human history, dolt.

2. Communism is LITERALLY about abolishing and eradicating class, state, and cultural interests as well as material restrictions so as to ensure the individual is as free as possible. READ Marx.

3. Exploiters are exploiters. This is like saying that slaves were wrong for hating their masters because it's an "us vs them" mentality. What utter nonsense are you on? I want some, too.

[Cessarea]

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

As for Article 7 and 9, I'm not sure what you hoped to prove by highlighting them. That collective workplaces did not su mit fully to the planned economy? I don't know under what definition of private property you're operating wherein a worker collective or association of individual farmers or crasftspersons can be equated to a standard capitalist enterprise, as if the difference in ownership from a burgeois to the proletariat working on that property has no impact or say on the overall economy.

Capitalism is not defined by questions of ownership, but rather by the presence of generalised commodity production. Government or worker owned enterprises are still participants in the capitalist mode of production.

But the presence of that ownership signalises, along with stated and done revolutionary intent and action, a Socialist transition period. That's the point. Adherence to worker-owned private enterprise is not cause for exclusion of an experience from the label "socialist".

[Port Carverton]

0

But before you go 'aha!', China is in no way similar to the Soviet economy

Ah, but they call themselves communist and are ruled by the Chinese Communist Party! Therefore, by your understanding, they must be communist!

I literally said that the nazis aren't socialist

[Theodorable]

Capitalism is not defined by questions of ownership, but rather by the presence of generalised commodity production. Government or worker owned enterprises are still participants in the capitalist mode of production.

But the presence of that ownership signalises, along with stated and done revolutionary intent and action, a Socialist transition period. That's the point. Adherence to private property is not cause for exclusion of an experience from the label "socialist".

You know, I think Marx said something about this... I think it's very well known:

In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Anathema

This input from Christofascism shall be happily worn like a decoration.

[Theodorable]

Ah, but they call themselves communist and are ruled by the Chinese Communist Party! Therefore, by your understanding, they must be communist!

I literally said that the nazis aren't socialist

Doesn't have anything to do with what they said. Read words.

[Valles Marineris Mining co]

Misguided but well intentioned at best, just as Evil as Fascism at worst


As a disclaimer: I am pro unions and worker democracies, I think employees should be able to elect their bosses and unionize and stuff

My problem with Communism is 3 things:

1. It puts too much faith into humanity. Humans are naturally selfish creatures, and communism would only truly work on like an island with a small group of ppl with limited recourses becuase in a situation like I described, being selfish/greedy would only result in your death.

2.It denies the importance of the individual. The individual is sacred. Without individuality we are simply a cog in the machine of whatever greater goal society wants us to participate in. Without the individual society is creatively stunted because pursuing your own goals and dreams in discouraged in order to provide for the needs of the collective.

3z Its an “Us vs Them” Ideology. Communism is always about the revolution against the bougies. It’s always Proletariat vs Bourgeoisie. This means it is an inherent “Us vs Them” ideology. “Us vs Them” is a philosophy as old as time, and is pretty much the root of all genocides, bigotry, hate, most wars, and conflict as a whole. Dehumanizing or turning the opposing side into “Them” simply denies the individual experiences of both the people you trying unite against your enemies by assuming everyone who isn’t “them” acts and behaves the same and also denies the individual experience of your enemies by assuming “them” all act the same and have the same goals and opinions. It’s ironic how communists hate fascists when fascist Ian is also an ideology based around the philosophy of “Us vs Them” .

chatgpt ahh answer

1. Humanity is not naturally selfish. See the entirety of human history, dolt.

2. Communism is LITERALLY about abolishing and eradicating class, state, and cultural interests as well as material restrictions so as to ensure the individual is as free as possible. READ Marx.

3. Exploiters are exploiters. This is like saying that slaves were wrong for hating their masters because it's an "us vs them" mentality. What utter nonsense are you on? I want some, too.

1. Bro humans and animals in general are naturally selfish. It’s called instinct and competition

2. Bruh what tf ru on. Communism is literally anything but individualist

3. There is a difference between slavery and shitty employers. One exploits another and the owner gains everything and the slave gains nothing. A shitty employer exploits their employees, but there is at least an exchange in labour and monetary value.

[Cessarea]

But the presence of that ownership signalises, along with stated and done revolutionary intent and action, a Socialist transition period. That's the point. Adherence to private property is not cause for exclusion of an experience from the label "socialist".

You know, I think Marx said something about this... I think it's very well known:

In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.

Thankfully we're not discussing communism, unless you want to claim the russian socialist experiment got anywhere close to that during its prime time.

[Port Carverton]

Misguided but well intentioned at best, just as Evil as Fascism at worst


As a disclaimer: I am pro unions and worker democracies, I think employees should be able to elect their bosses and unionize and stuff

My problem with Communism is 3 things:

1. It puts too much faith into humanity. Humans are naturally selfish creatures, and communism would only truly work on like an island with a small group of ppl with limited recourses becuase in a situation like I described, being selfish/greedy would only result in your death.

2.It denies the importance of the individual. The individual is sacred. Without individuality we are simply a cog in the machine of whatever greater goal society wants us to participate in. Without the individual society is creatively stunted because pursuing your own goals and dreams in discouraged in order to provide for the needs of the collective.

3z Its an “Us vs Them” Ideology. Communism is always about the revolution against the bougies. It’s always Proletariat vs Bourgeoisie. This means it is an inherent “Us vs Them” ideology. “Us vs Them” is a philosophy as old as time, and is pretty much the root of all genocides, bigotry, hate, most wars, and conflict as a whole. Dehumanizing or turning the opposing side into “Them” simply denies the individual experiences of both the people you trying unite against your enemies by assuming everyone who isn’t “them” acts and behaves the same and also denies the individual experience of your enemies by assuming “them” all act the same and have the same goals and opinions. It’s ironic how communists hate fascists when fascist Ian is also an ideology based around the philosophy of “Us vs Them” .

chatgpt ahh answer

1. Humanity is not naturally selfish. See the entirety of human history, dolt.

2. Communism is LITERALLY about abolishing and eradicating class, state, and cultural interests as well as material restrictions so as to ensure the individual is as free as possible. READ Marx.

3. Exploiters are exploiters. This is like saying that slaves were wrong for hating their masters because it's an "us vs them" mentality. What utter nonsense are you on? I want some, too.

If humanity is not selfish, then why are capitalists not making things better for their workers? Genuine question, because wouldn't they be benevolent as well or is there something I am missing?