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Should Rural votes be weighted/count more than Urban votes?

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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:33 pm

Kernen wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
What you can access, they can access.

I'm convinced the average Joe doesn't know how to build an 81mm mortar and mount it on the world's shittiest technical, so those are odds I am willing to take. Ain't nothing has zero risk.

I care little for what weapons you can access.

A complete lack of authority or centralization like you are advocating for would be a dystopian war zone.

And I really think your votes should not weigh more than others either, especially when that is your goal.
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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:40 pm

Kernen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Thats a terrible thing to dream about and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

And you said you manipulate that to not pay your fair share by threatening to sue. Id ignore your claims and make you pay.


And yet om not.

You'd probably lose under the statute. And then id get the money off and fees. Cutting a check saves the town more money in the long run. Because they're overworked and underpaid.


And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.

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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:45 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:
And yet om not.

You'd probably lose under the statute. And then id get the money off and fees. Cutting a check saves the town more money in the long run. Because they're overworked and underpaid.


And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


It's not even democracy that is at stake. What these people seem to hope for is that their disproportionate representation will lead to total chaos, and what seems like anarchy.

Never did I think I would see many Americans talking notes from what happened in Somalia in the hope of emulating it, but here we are.
Flag by someone named AdmiralRA on Reddit.
Proud Democratic Socialist.
George Orwell wrote:Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.
Bradfordville wrote:For every donald trump you see on TV, there's 10,000 others screaming at a mcdonalds employee about something pointless, calling people racial slurs online in a disagreement, forgetting to flush the toilet in a public bathroom and not bothering to wash their hands, threatening local school teachers, playing hot potato with a firecracker or telling their kid that they'll be right back and they're only going to buy some milk. Obama was what America wanted to think it was. Trump is who we really are.

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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:
And yet om not.

You'd probably lose under the statute. And then id get the money off and fees. Cutting a check saves the town more money in the long run. Because they're overworked and underpaid.


And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


I don't know why you keep insisting people "don't get" the very thing that motivates them to oppose you. It really is just stupid at this point.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:56 pm

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Kernen wrote:I'm convinced the average Joe doesn't know how to build an 81mm mortar and mount it on the world's shittiest technical, so those are odds I am willing to take. Ain't nothing has zero risk.

I care little for what weapons you can access.

A complete lack of authority or centralization like you are advocating for would be a dystopian war zone.

And I really think your votes should not weigh more than others either, especially when that is your goal.

They'll definitely matter to roving mobs of neo nazis people seem to think will exist.
San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:
And yet om not.

You'd probably lose under the statute. And then id get the money off and fees. Cutting a check saves the town more money in the long run. Because they're overworked and underpaid.


And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


Maybe. To the extent I need to externalize my moral validation, I'm not so far gone as to need yours.

And I'd like to set myself up so then disagreeing with me doesn't impact my life. We can do it a couple different ways. The optimal one is one where people are left with the liberty to live their own lives without needing to break down society. I suppose that requires some restraint on your end. Obviously I'm generalizing here, but I can live with that.
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


It's not even democracy that is at stake. What these people seem to hope for is that their disproportionate representation will lead to total chaos, and what seems like anarchy.

Never did I think I would see many Americans talking notes from what happened in Somalia in the hope of emulating it, but here we are.

The obvious solution is maintaining sufficient minority protections to prevent the minority from going off the reservation entirely.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:56 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


I don't know why you keep insisting people "don't get" the very thing that motivates them to oppose you. It really is just stupid at this point.


Do you think everyone in your community votes unanimously one way in every election? The answer is simple they don't. No one is ever going to agree one hundred percent on anything. This is why whenever there is a contested election someone will always vote for the other person or persons. The same goes for a referendum.

I don't see what's stupid about it.

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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:58 pm

Kernen wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:I care little for what weapons you can access.

A complete lack of authority or centralization like you are advocating for would be a dystopian war zone.

And I really think your votes should not weigh more than others either, especially when that is your goal.

They'll definitely matter to roving mobs of neo nazis people seem to think will exist.
San Lumen wrote:
And this says a lot about you.

That said while i have nothing against those in small towns your not entitled to more representation as a result. You and others don't seem to get that being in democracy means you have to share the state or country with those who don't agree with you. Your small town is not a hive mind where everyone agrees.

Do you think everyone in cities is hive mind too? The answer they aren't.


Maybe. To the extent I need to externalize my moral validation, I'm not so far gone as to need yours.

And I'd like to set myself up so then disagreeing with me doesn't impact my life. We can do it a couple different ways. The optimal one is one where people are left with the liberty to live their own lives without needing to break down society. I suppose that requires some restraint on your end. Obviously I'm generalizing here, but I can live with that.
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
It's not even democracy that is at stake. What these people seem to hope for is that their disproportionate representation will lead to total chaos, and what seems like anarchy.

Never did I think I would see many Americans talking notes from what happened in Somalia in the hope of emulating it, but here we are.

The obvious solution is maintaining sufficient minority protections to prevent the minority from going off the reservation entirely.


I still don't understand what you mean by liberty to live their lives. Do you want your town to not be bound by anything that comes from Concord or Washington?

What minority protections do you want? Laws apply to everyone. Your not exempt because you didn't vote for those in power.

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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:59 pm

Khardsland wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:No explosives work pretty well for that too lol

To detonate an explosive, you still need authority. You are exerting the supreme authority of humankind to manipulate solids to its favor, short and long term.


In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.

I see why they will never get a majority. Very few people would shrink the state to the point where basic law enforcement becomes impossible.
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Bradfordville wrote:For every donald trump you see on TV, there's 10,000 others screaming at a mcdonalds employee about something pointless, calling people racial slurs online in a disagreement, forgetting to flush the toilet in a public bathroom and not bothering to wash their hands, threatening local school teachers, playing hot potato with a firecracker or telling their kid that they'll be right back and they're only going to buy some milk. Obama was what America wanted to think it was. Trump is who we really are.

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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:05 pm

San Lumen wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
I don't know why you keep insisting people "don't get" the very thing that motivates them to oppose you. It really is just stupid at this point.


Do you think everyone in your community votes unanimously one way in every election? The answer is simple they don't. No one is ever going to agree one hundred percent on anything. This is why whenever there is a contested election someone will always vote for the other person or persons. The same goes for a referendum.

I don't see what's stupid about it.


Why should I give a fuck how anyone else in my community votes?

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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:10 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Do you think everyone in your community votes unanimously one way in every election? The answer is simple they don't. No one is ever going to agree one hundred percent on anything. This is why whenever there is a contested election someone will always vote for the other person or persons. The same goes for a referendum.

I don't see what's stupid about it.


Why should I give a fuck how anyone else in my community votes?


because you seem to despise anyone who disagrees with you and hate the very idea of having to share a municipality, county, state or country with them. You and others want your ideology to be inflated by unfair and undemocratic means of dolling out representation so only your opinion can be the one implemented.

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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Why should I give a fuck how anyone else in my community votes?


because you seem to despise anyone who disagrees with you and hate the very idea of having to share a municipality, county, state or country with them. You and others want your ideology to be inflated by unfair and undemocratic means of dolling out representation so only your opinion can be the one implemented.


Okay, none of that is an answer to my question though.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:13 pm

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Khardsland wrote:To detonate an explosive, you still need authority. You are exerting the supreme authority of humankind to manipulate solids to its favor, short and long term.


In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.

I see why they will never get a majority. Very few people would shrink the state to the point where basic law enforcement becomes impossible.

If you've never detonated half a pound of high explosives, I'm not sure I can explain it to you, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a recreational grenade launcher. As evidenced by the fact that I own one.

San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:They'll definitely matter to roving mobs of neo nazis people seem to think will exist.

Maybe. To the extent I need to externalize my moral validation, I'm not so far gone as to need yours.

And I'd like to set myself up so then disagreeing with me doesn't impact my life. We can do it a couple different ways. The optimal one is one where people are left with the liberty to live their own lives without needing to break down society. I suppose that requires some restraint on your end. Obviously I'm generalizing here, but I can live with that.
The obvious solution is maintaining sufficient minority protections to prevent the minority from going off the reservation entirely.


I still don't understand what you mean by liberty to live their lives. Do you want your town to not be bound by anything that comes from Concord or Washington?

What minority protections do you want? Laws apply to everyone. Your not exempt because you didn't vote for those in power.


Hey San Lumen, should I be allowed to reduce my tax bill by threatening a lawsuit?
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:19 pm

Kernen wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.

I see why they will never get a majority. Very few people would shrink the state to the point where basic law enforcement becomes impossible.

If you've never detonated half a pound of high explosives, I'm not sure I can explain it to you, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a recreational grenade launcher. As evidenced by the fact that I own one.


There's a very big difference between recreational hobbies and having to do something because the community descended into literal anarchy, thanks to the disproportionate votes causing higher level of government to let it decay and rot.
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Bradfordville wrote:For every donald trump you see on TV, there's 10,000 others screaming at a mcdonalds employee about something pointless, calling people racial slurs online in a disagreement, forgetting to flush the toilet in a public bathroom and not bothering to wash their hands, threatening local school teachers, playing hot potato with a firecracker or telling their kid that they'll be right back and they're only going to buy some milk. Obama was what America wanted to think it was. Trump is who we really are.

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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:21 pm

Kernen wrote:Hey San Lumen, should I be allowed to reduce my tax bill by threatening a lawsuit?


Is this a service you provide to millionaires and billionaires?

Picairn is certainly right, this feels like an astroturf movement.
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Bradfordville wrote:For every donald trump you see on TV, there's 10,000 others screaming at a mcdonalds employee about something pointless, calling people racial slurs online in a disagreement, forgetting to flush the toilet in a public bathroom and not bothering to wash their hands, threatening local school teachers, playing hot potato with a firecracker or telling their kid that they'll be right back and they're only going to buy some milk. Obama was what America wanted to think it was. Trump is who we really are.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:23 pm

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Kernen wrote:If you've never detonated half a pound of high explosives, I'm not sure I can explain it to you, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a recreational grenade launcher. As evidenced by the fact that I own one.


There's a very big difference between recreational hobbies and having to do something because the community descended into literal anarchy, thanks to the disproportionate votes causing higher level of government to let it decay and rot.


Hey, if my hobbies add to my security, so much the better.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

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American Legionaries
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Postby American Legionaries » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:24 pm

Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
Khardsland wrote:To detonate an explosive, you still need authority. You are exerting the supreme authority of humankind to manipulate solids to its favor, short and long term.


In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.


It's certainly not ideal, but it beats the alternative.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:28 pm

American Legionaries wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.


It's certainly not ideal, but it beats the alternative.

Bite your tongue, you traitor.
Last edited by Kernen on Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:47 pm

Kernen wrote:
Second Dimetrodon Empire wrote:
In all seriousness, I don't get why needing to put explosives on one's property to keep away criminals is appealing.

I see why they will never get a majority. Very few people would shrink the state to the point where basic law enforcement becomes impossible.

If you've never detonated half a pound of high explosives, I'm not sure I can explain it to you, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a recreational grenade launcher. As evidenced by the fact that I own one.

San Lumen wrote:
I still don't understand what you mean by liberty to live their lives. Do you want your town to not be bound by anything that comes from Concord or Washington?

What minority protections do you want? Laws apply to everyone. Your not exempt because you didn't vote for those in power.


Hey San Lumen, should I be allowed to reduce my tax bill by threatening a lawsuit?


Doesn't answer my questions.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:48 pm

So...what does all this have to do with the thread topic? Just wondering.
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Second Dimetrodon Empire
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Postby Second Dimetrodon Empire » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:49 pm

Neutraligon wrote:So...what does all this have to do with the thread topic? Just wondering.


It's why they want rural areas to be weighted more when it comes to votes.

It's all nonsense though.
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George Orwell wrote:Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.
Bradfordville wrote:For every donald trump you see on TV, there's 10,000 others screaming at a mcdonalds employee about something pointless, calling people racial slurs online in a disagreement, forgetting to flush the toilet in a public bathroom and not bothering to wash their hands, threatening local school teachers, playing hot potato with a firecracker or telling their kid that they'll be right back and they're only going to buy some milk. Obama was what America wanted to think it was. Trump is who we really are.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:04 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:If you've never detonated half a pound of high explosives, I'm not sure I can explain it to you, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a recreational grenade launcher. As evidenced by the fact that I own one.



Hey San Lumen, should I be allowed to reduce my tax bill by threatening a lawsuit?


Doesn't answer my questions.

Sure it does. You'd see if you answered.

Neutraligon wrote:So...what does all this have to do with the thread topic? Just wondering.


Why votes should be weighed is relevant to whether they should be so weighed.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

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Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:08 pm

Kernen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Doesn't answer my questions.

Sure it does. You'd see if you answered.

Neutraligon wrote:So...what does all this have to do with the thread topic? Just wondering.


Why votes should be weighed is relevant to whether they should be so weighed.


No it really doesn't. you merely reiterated how you get people to not pay their fair share of taxes. You have yet to explain what exactly it is you want?

Is it complete exemption from anything passed in Concord or Washington because you disagree with those in power? Do you not want people you disagree with to be able to make decisions for you? That's the trade off of a republic. Your argument could be summed up as urban counties should not be able to vote on agriculture commissioner in the states that have a vote on it.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Kernen wrote:Sure it does. You'd see if you answered.



Why votes should be weighed is relevant to whether they should be so weighed.


No it really doesn't. you merely reiterated how you get people to not pay their fair share of taxes. You have yet to explain what exactly it is you want?

Is it complete exemption from anything passed in Concord or Washington because you disagree with those in power? Do you not want people you disagree with to be able to make decisions for you? That's the trade off of a republic. Your argument could be summed up as urban counties should not be able to vote on agriculture commissioner in the states that have a vote on it.

Should I be allowed to use the threat of a legal challenge to reduce my tax bill?
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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San Lumen
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:10 pm

Kernen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
No it really doesn't. you merely reiterated how you get people to not pay their fair share of taxes. You have yet to explain what exactly it is you want?

Is it complete exemption from anything passed in Concord or Washington because you disagree with those in power? Do you not want people you disagree with to be able to make decisions for you? That's the trade off of a republic. Your argument could be summed up as urban counties should not be able to vote on agriculture commissioner in the states that have a vote on it.

Should I be allowed to use the threat of a legal challenge to reduce my tax bill?


Not what I asked you and I don't see the relevance to my question.

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