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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do we think of the Prime Minister's speech?

It was fantastic
9
19%
It was okay I guess
3
6%
Yet another embarrassing speech by Boris Johnson
35
74%
 
Total votes : 47

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:27 pm

Dakini wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
No, it doesn't discuss their identities at all.

Then why is everyone assuming that they're Pakistani? There isn't really evidence that grooming gangs in the UK are predominantly Pakistani.


Because we keep getting the Muslamic Rape Gangs thing beaten into our heads. And thus it creates a schema that any child grooming network must be Muslims.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:45 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Dakini wrote:Then why is everyone assuming that they're Pakistani? There isn't really evidence that grooming gangs in the UK are predominantly Pakistani.


Because we keep getting the Muslamic Rape Gangs thing beaten into our heads. And thus it creates a schema that any child grooming network must be Muslims.

Or its because in the article i linked in the very first video there is a screenshot of one of the texts one of the groomers sent to the Victim "Sarah" talking about how the men who want to rape her want to "Fuck a white whore" and that grooming gangs of Pakistani origin and from certain other migrant backgrounds tend to target white working class girls in many of their areas of operation across Northern England. Also in the articles Ostro linked some of the victims specify the ethnicities of some of their groomers as being of Pakistani as well as others:

The girls claim the nationalities of the man involved were Turkish, Kurdish, Bangladeshi and Pakistani, although Humberside Police say the backgrounds of the people arrested or questioned as part of Operation Marksman are varied.

This alleged targeting of white girls by Asian and Middle Eastern men in Hull, though, has parallels with other child exploitation rings, in Rotherham, Rochdale and elsewhere in northern England.

- Hull Daily Mail article

Also we all know there are serious attitude issues with some people of Pakistani backgrounds and how they treat women and that it is a recurring and notable element in many of these grooming gangs as been shown over and over again. Now are there grooming gangs out there made up of people who are not from a Pakistani background? Obviously there are but Pakistani ones are notable and recurring. So no Vass its not because its been "beaten into my heads" its because im looking at the fucking information available to me and drawing a reasonable conclusion.

And see if this woman and the others treated this way get a sense of justice and its revealed the perpetrators were not from a Pakistani or similar background i will be the very first in this thread to admit i was wrong.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:53 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Because we keep getting the Muslamic Rape Gangs thing beaten into our heads. And thus it creates a schema that any child grooming network must be Muslims.

Or its because in the article i linked in the very first video there is a screenshot of one of the texts one of the groomers sent to the Victim "Sarah" talking about how the men who want to rape her want to "Fuck a white whore" and that grooming gangs of Pakistani origin and from certain other migrant backgrounds tend to target white working class girls in many of their areas of operation across Northern England. Also in the articles Ostro linked some of the victims specify the ethnicities of some of their groomers as being of Pakistani as well as others:

The girls claim the nationalities of the man involved were Turkish, Kurdish, Bangladeshi and Pakistani, although Humberside Police say the backgrounds of the people arrested or questioned as part of Operation Marksman are varied.

This alleged targeting of white girls by Asian and Middle Eastern men in Hull, though, has parallels with other child exploitation rings, in Rotherham, Rochdale and elsewhere in northern England.

- Hull Daily Mail article

Also we all know there are serious attitude issues with some people of Pakistani backgrounds and how they treat women and that it is a recurring and notable element in many of these grooming gangs as been shown over and over again. Now are there grooming gangs out there made up of people who are not from a Pakistani background? Obviously there are but Pakistani ones are notable and recurring. So no Vass its not because its been "beaten into my heads" its because im looking at the fucking information available to me and drawing a reasonable conclusion.

And see if this woman and the others treated this way get a sense of justice and its revealed the perpetrators were not from a Pakistani or similar background i will be the very first in this thread to admit i was wrong.


So you're getting angry at me for reading the article you provided and basing my arguement on the article that you provided now?
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:55 pm

Vassenor wrote:So you're getting angry at me for reading the article you provided and basing my arguement on the article that you provided now?


The information was also in the article he provided if you watched the video Vass.
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:17 pm

We've know of an over representation in this for about 15 years. The thing that is probably more important is why it's played down. The intresting thing for me is that it would probably do the current government good to have it in the news properly so why they don't want to push it is curious when thinking about political stratergy.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:25 pm

So, I had a meeting with three representatives from the Cabinet Office this week, one of them fairly senior (no, I can't tell you why). Only one of them can have been over 30.

This country is run by children; children, I tell you.

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Hukhalia
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Postby Hukhalia » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:26 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:So, I had a meeting with three representatives from the Cabinet Office this week, one of them fairly senior (no, I can't tell you why). Only one of them can have been over 30.

This country is run by children; children, I tell you.

i mean it's arguably better than the US where literally every member of the government is a bad fall away from being six feet under
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:27 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:So, I had a meeting with three representatives from the Cabinet Office this week, one of them fairly senior (no, I can't tell you why). Only one of them can have been over 30.

This country is run by children; children, I tell you.

Did they talk about Peppa Pig?
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:42 pm

The Nihilistic view wrote:We've know of an over representation in this for about 15 years. The thing that is probably more important is why it's played down. The intresting thing for me is that it would probably do the current government good to have it in the news properly so why they don't want to push it is curious when thinking about political stratergy.


I would suggest it's because if you really sit and think about it the only solutions are authoritarian ones which the conservatives may be ideologically opposed to considering, or conclude would isolate them internationally due to just how badly the west has fucked itself over by normalizing the multicultarlists.

It's less so that they don't want to acknowledge it. As you rightly note it's an easy vote winner for them. It's that the next stage is "And then what.".

"It's mostly Pakistani muslims and there's clearly a problem with this community. Labour is throwing a fit and shitting itself in public because they're in denial over that.".

And then what.

What do you say next. What policy do you propose.

(This, in fact, is also why Labour is histrionically in denial of reality over it and lashes out compared to the more subdued Tory response of going "Pakist...um... um... Hey, look over there!".

Because the "And then what" is inevitably going to be something like "So we have to actively break up their ghettos and forcibly move them around the country" or "So we have to ban pakistani immigration" or "So we have to close down the religious schools." or if you go even more bananas, all the way up to shit like "So we have to force them all onto a boat and push it out to sea".

It is not a problem that can be resolved without state violence of some kind.

There's not realistically anything else worth proposing and thinking it will work.

And we've seen how the muslim community riots and throws a fucking shitfit over a drawing of mohammed. How do you think they will respond to "So we're sending the police to turn you out of your houses and forcibly break up your communities and force you to stop living in a self-segregated fashion, so that integration might actually work" or "So we're going to close your mosques" or whatever?

So instead, we don't talk about it.

Labour denies reality and lashes out because of ThE ImPliCaTiOn. Like "Well my mommy loves me, so she can't be beating me." -> "Your mom is in fact beating you" -> Immediate shitfit freakout and lashing out because how dare you suggest their mother doesn't love them. Just total disconnect from reality because they axiomatically refuse to acknowledge reality because the reality of the situation is "Oh. It turns out all that fucking nonsense about equality was dangerous nonsense and state violence specifically directed at minority communities can be entirely justified. Institutional racism can, in fact, be a tool of progress.".

The Tories don't so much deny reality as realize "well. I'm not going to mention my mom beating me because I don't really want to have to move out. It sounds expensive.".

What other solution is there realistically? Ask them nicely?

We've tried.

Waffle about how they don't feel welcome and if we just tried harder?

They say they feel more at home here than natives do.

And so on, and so on. Soft power has completely failed to work. And we refuse to countenance the suggestion that hard power might. Imagine it like a dispute between any two communities of people and how ridiculous that position is. Why would it be any different just because they're inside the same borders

We're stuck in a perpetual appeasement mentality and they know it too.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:37 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:45 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:So, I had a meeting with three representatives from the Cabinet Office this week, one of them fairly senior (no, I can't tell you why). Only one of them can have been over 30.

This country is run by children; children, I tell you.


Actual children could still run this country better than this corrupt shitstorm we have for a political party that's in power.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:22 pm

Dakini wrote:Did I miss part of the article that discusses the ethnicity of the members of the grooming gang?

You did not.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:49 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59365729

Tory plans hurts the poor the most. Who would have thought it?

A picture speaks a thousand words:

Image


That article is a confusing mess that was extraordinarily difficult to parse and that graphic is a major reason why. In fact, I'm still not sure I understand it.

  • If you need care, you will only ever have to pay up to £86,000, i.e. your personal costs are capped.
  • Any means tested support you receive does not count towards this cap.
  • You will be entitled to receive support when you assets, rather than income, fall below £100,000.
  • Once you have less than £20,000 in assets, you won't have to meet costs at all.
  • Thus, the graphic subtracts £86,000 from the initial asset value in two cases but not in the first (as losing £86,000 of wealth would put the person into this new category).
  • Additionally. there are sometimes contributions that have to be made, but this is more like taxation.

But I've got no idea how "Care home fees - such as for food and rent - will not count towards the £86,000 limit but will be capped at £200 a week" fits in. Is this saying that you have to find a care home that charges less than £200 a week? That I've read the cap all wrong and it's actually a cap on entitlements? That the government assumes that people are paying £200 regardless of what people are actually paying?

Anyway...

Thirty-one people headed for the UK have drowned in the English Channel near Calais after their boat sank.

The International Organization for Migration said it was the biggest single loss of life in the Channel since it began collecting data in 2014.


and a sub section within that

The grim truth is today was predicted and predictable.

We had been told that many would attempt to cross the Channel overnight due to rapidly worsening weather.


This was a plot point in Years and Years, which actually killed off a main character through a failed Channel crossing.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:20 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Because we keep getting the Muslamic Rape Gangs thing beaten into our heads. And thus it creates a schema that any child grooming network must be Muslims.

Or its because in the article i linked in the very first video there is a screenshot of one of the texts one of the groomers sent to the Victim "Sarah" talking about how the men who want to rape her want to "Fuck a white whore" and that grooming gangs of Pakistani origin and from certain other migrant backgrounds tend to target white working class girls in many of their areas of operation across Northern England.

There are many people who aren't white and who also aren't Pakistani.

Also in the articles Ostro linked some of the victims specify the ethnicities of some of their groomers as being of Pakistani as well as others:

I don't see Ostro's posts. Extra good now that he's apparently gone for racism instead of just sticking to misogyny.

The girls claim the nationalities of the man involved were Turkish, Kurdish, Bangladeshi and Pakistani, although Humberside Police say the backgrounds of the people arrested or questioned as part of Operation Marksman are varied.

This alleged targeting of white girls by Asian and Middle Eastern men in Hull, though, has parallels with other child exploitation rings, in Rotherham, Rochdale and elsewhere in northern England.

- Hull Daily Mail article

I'm not about to listen to the Daily Heil either. You expect me to take a publication seriously when it constantly screams about how immigrants and brown people are ruining everything?

Also we all know there are serious attitude issues with some people of Pakistani backgrounds and how they treat women and that it is a recurring and notable element in many of these grooming gangs as been shown over and over again. Now are there grooming gangs out there made up of people who are not from a Pakistani background? Obviously there are but Pakistani ones are notable and recurring. So no Vass its not because its been "beaten into my heads" its because im looking at the fucking information available to me and drawing a reasonable conclusion.

And see if this woman and the others treated this way get a sense of justice and its revealed the perpetrators were not from a Pakistani or similar background i will be the very first in this thread to admit i was wrong.

I think it's stupid to act like the perpetrators are Pakistani when an article says literally nothing about it. It's better to wait for information than to make assumptions.

I expect certain posters to go around making racist assumptions, but I really expected better from you, tbh.
Last edited by Dakini on Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:41 am

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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:14 am

Re: my previous post... it may only have been 27 migrants (instead of 31) that drowned in the Channel.



That's nuts. Also, there's an episode of Boston Legal about this, so I guess it was a Bush policy or something in the States.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:25 am

Dakini wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Or its because in the article i linked in the very first video there is a screenshot of one of the texts one of the groomers sent to the Victim "Sarah" talking about how the men who want to rape her want to "Fuck a white whore" and that grooming gangs of Pakistani origin and from certain other migrant backgrounds tend to target white working class girls in many of their areas of operation across Northern England.

There are many people who aren't white and who also aren't Pakistani.
Which i mentioned in that comment. Im mentioning Pakistanis because they are a notable example of where these gangs can originate from and the cultural attitudes from the Pakistani community that can help foster these groups creation in the first place. I know full well they are not the only group of non white people in general or to do with grooming gang issues in the UK.

I'm not about to listen to the Daily Heil either. You expect me to take a publication seriously when it constantly screams about how immigrants and brown people are ruining everything?
From what ive gathered the Hull Daily Mail is a separate regional news paper that has nothing to do with The Daily Mail, especially since it entered circulation in the 1880s where as the Daily Mail began in the 1890s iirc, same way the Belfast Telegraph is not part of the Daily Telegraph. If im wrong show me and ill admit then the Article is no doubt heavily biased and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I think it's stupid to act like the perpetrators are Pakistani when an article says literally nothing about it. It's better to wait for information than to make assumptions.

I expect certain posters to go around making racist assumptions, but I really expected better from you, tbh.
Im not making racist assumptions, im making an assumption based on the information i have from the article i originally listed and from the others that were also posted and other recent grooming gang cases in the UK. But yeah you are right, i probably shouldnt be making assumptions to begin with and as i said if it comes to like they are not pakistani or from any other ethnic minority group i will be the first to own up and admit i was wrong.

We all know there are issues within the Pakistani community and some of their cultural attitudes towards women and others. And they are not the only ones, its a big trend amongst immigrant groups from the Middle East in general but also in other locations such as my own god damn home here in Northern Ireland which i have repeatedly brought up in relation to issues regarding things such as Abortion and SSM, both of which are still being obstructed to this day by Politicians from a certain community (Unionism) who hold more socially conservative views and are placating the more extreme members of their voting base.

Do not accuse me of being racist, my entire post history demonstrates otherwise.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:29 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Do not accuse me of being racist, my entire post history demonstrates otherwise.

I didn't say you were racist. I said you made an assumption that was and that this surprised me as I consider you better than that.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:31 am


Because Patel is a wanker, we should all know this is coming and that fack all is gona be done to stop it.

Forsher wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:A picture speaks a thousand words:

Image


That article is a confusing mess that was extraordinarily difficult to parse and that graphic is a major reason why. In fact, I'm still not sure I understand it.

  • If you need care, you will only ever have to pay up to £86,000, i.e. your personal costs are capped.
  • Any means tested support you receive does not count towards this cap.
  • You will be entitled to receive support when you assets, rather than income, fall below £100,000.
  • Once you have less than £20,000 in assets, you won't have to meet costs at all.
  • Thus, the graphic subtracts £86,000 from the initial asset value in two cases but not in the first (as losing £86,000 of wealth would put the person into this new category).
  • Additionally. there are sometimes contributions that have to be made, but this is more like taxation.

But I've got no idea how "Care home fees - such as for food and rent - will not count towards the £86,000 limit but will be capped at £200 a week" fits in. Is this saying that you have to find a care home that charges less than £200 a week? That I've read the cap all wrong and it's actually a cap on entitlements? That the government assumes that people are paying £200 regardless of what people are actually paying?

Anyway...

Thirty-one people headed for the UK have drowned in the English Channel near Calais after their boat sank.

The International Organization for Migration said it was the biggest single loss of life in the Channel since it began collecting data in 2014.


and a sub section within that

The grim truth is today was predicted and predictable.

We had been told that many would attempt to cross the Channel overnight due to rapidly worsening weather.


This was a plot point in Years and Years, which actually killed off a main character through a failed Channel crossing.
. This is insane, but its an issue im not sure how to address efficiently, how do we try and cut down on the amount of potential deaths going across the channel like this? Does the UK work with the French to set up more infrastructure on their end to house and process them or do they do it in the UK so stuff like this doesnt happen, would that even have an impact to begin with etc etc
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:31 am

Dakini wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Do not accuse me of being racist, my entire post history demonstrates otherwise.

I didn't say you were racist. I said you made an assumption that was and that this surprised me as I consider you better than that.

Sorry i misread your comment Dakini.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:46 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Forsher wrote:
That article is a confusing mess that was extraordinarily difficult to parse and that graphic is a major reason why. In fact, I'm still not sure I understand it.

  • If you need care, you will only ever have to pay up to £86,000, i.e. your personal costs are capped.
  • Any means tested support you receive does not count towards this cap.
  • You will be entitled to receive support when you assets, rather than income, fall below £100,000.
  • Once you have less than £20,000 in assets, you won't have to meet costs at all.
  • Thus, the graphic subtracts £86,000 from the initial asset value in two cases but not in the first (as losing £86,000 of wealth would put the person into this new category).
  • Additionally. there are sometimes contributions that have to be made, but this is more like taxation.

But I've got no idea how "Care home fees - such as for food and rent - will not count towards the £86,000 limit but will be capped at £200 a week" fits in. Is this saying that you have to find a care home that charges less than £200 a week? That I've read the cap all wrong and it's actually a cap on entitlements? That the government assumes that people are paying £200 regardless of what people are actually paying?

Anyway...

Thirty-one people headed for the UK have drowned in the English Channel near Calais after their boat sank.

The International Organization for Migration said it was the biggest single loss of life in the Channel since it began collecting data in 2014.


and a sub section within that

The grim truth is today was predicted and predictable.

We had been told that many would attempt to cross the Channel overnight due to rapidly worsening weather.


This was a plot point in Years and Years, which actually killed off a main character through a failed Channel crossing.
. This is insane, but its an issue im not sure how to address efficiently, how do we try and cut down on the amount of potential deaths going across the channel like this? Does the UK work with the French to set up more infrastructure on their end to house and process them or do they do it in the UK so stuff like this doesnt happen, would that even have an impact to begin with etc etc


Look, Australia's anti boat people policies are completely inhumane but they are quite effective at stopping stories like this from being remotely regular (at least, from the POV in NZ)... the Australian Navy basically just rounds up all the boat people it can find and sticks them in detention centres.

Fixing the world or open borders aren't going to happen. so it'll probably have to be something like that.

Boris will probably sell it as jobs for the Channel Islanders.
Last edited by Forsher on Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:49 am

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-)
LAB: 36% (+2)
LDEM: 10% (+2)
GRN: 5% (-3)

via @Kantar, 18 - 22 Nov Chgs. w/ Oct

Tory lead in this one but both Labour and the Lib Dems gain a boost where as the Greens fall down by 3%
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The Nihilistic view
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10686
Founded: May 14, 2013
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:24 am

Dakini wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Or its because in the article i linked in the very first video there is a screenshot of one of the texts one of the groomers sent to the Victim "Sarah" talking about how the men who want to rape her want to "Fuck a white whore" and that grooming gangs of Pakistani origin and from certain other migrant backgrounds tend to target white working class girls in many of their areas of operation across Northern England.

There are many people who aren't white and who also aren't Pakistani.

Also in the articles Ostro linked some of the victims specify the ethnicities of some of their groomers as being of Pakistani as well as others:

I don't see Ostro's posts. Extra good now that he's apparently gone for racism instead of just sticking to misogyny.

- Hull Daily Mail article

I'm not about to listen to the Daily Heil either. You expect me to take a publication seriously when it constantly screams about how immigrants and brown people are ruining everything?

Also we all know there are serious attitude issues with some people of Pakistani backgrounds and how they treat women and that it is a recurring and notable element in many of these grooming gangs as been shown over and over again. Now are there grooming gangs out there made up of people who are not from a Pakistani background? Obviously there are but Pakistani ones are notable and recurring. So no Vass its not because its been "beaten into my heads" its because im looking at the fucking information available to me and drawing a reasonable conclusion.

And see if this woman and the others treated this way get a sense of justice and its revealed the perpetrators were not from a Pakistani or similar background i will be the very first in this thread to admit i was wrong.

I think it's stupid to act like the perpetrators are Pakistani when an article says literally nothing about it. It's better to wait for information than to make assumptions.

I expect certain posters to go around making racist assumptions, but I really expected better from you, tbh.


I'm about to blow your mind. The HULL daily mail is nothing to do with the Daily Mail. It's actually owned by the group as the Daily Mirror.
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-Astoria-
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby -Astoria- » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:51 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:'m about to blow your mind. The HULL daily mail is nothing to do with the Daily Mail. It's actually owned by the group as the Daily Mirror.

To be fair-ish, it was until 2012 under the Mail's regional subsidiary.
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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53949
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 am

HMRC to relocate to Newcastle office owned by Tory donors via tax haven

HM Revenue and Customs has struck a deal to relocate tax officials into a new office complex in Newcastle owned by major Conservative party donors through an offshore company based in a tax haven, the Guardian can reveal. The department’s planned new home in the north-east of England is part of a regeneration scheme developed by a British Virgin Islands (BVI) entity controlled by the billionaire property tycoons David and Simon Reuben.

The deal will see officials at the government department responsible for preventing tax avoidance working from a site owned by a subsidiary of a company based in a secretive offshore tax jurisdiction. The Reuben brothers, their family members and businesses have donated a combined £1.9m to the Tories. Earlier this week, the brothers are reported to have shared a table with Boris Johnson at an exclusive Tory party fundraising dinner. On Tuesday, officials including the Cabinet Office minister Steve Barclay announced HMRC had agreed the 25-year lease with one of the Reuben brothers’ companies.

The brothers are the second richest family in the UK, according to the Sunday Times’s rich list. David Reuben’s son, Jamie, is a close ally of the prime minister and has served as a Tory party treasurer. He has donated more than £750,000 to the party since Johnson entered Downing Street. The Reuben family has built a significant presence in Newcastle in recent years and is part of the controversial Saudi Arabia-led consortium that acquired Newcastle United football club in October.

Company filings show the family has frequently used BVI companies to hold its UK business interests, which include a luxury London property portfolio and a string of racecourses. A spokesperson for HMRC said the office complex in Newcastle is owned and will be developed by a UK company, Reuben Brothers (Newcastle) Limited. However, Companies House filings show the company’s sole shareholder when it was incorporated earlier this year was Taras Properties Limited in the BVI. Taras Properties first acquired the site in 2013 and transferred ownership of the land to the UK company in June this year for £10m, according to Land Registry records. The BVI company owns multiple large plots of land in central Newcastle in the area surrounding HMRC’s planned offices.

A spokesperson for the Reuben brothers confirmed the UK company is held by Taras Properties, but insisted the subsidiary “operates and pays taxes as a UK company”. HMRC’s spokesperson insisted the Reuben brothers’ company would be subject to normal UK tax regulation. “The lease payments and any gains on the sale are subject to UK tax,” they said. “HMRC is satisfied the deal represents the best value for money for the taxpayer.”

There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing by the Reuben brothers and owning UK property through offshore companies is perfectly legal. But the government’s decision to move 9,000 HMRC staff to the site comes as it faces calls to honour a commitment to introduce a register of overseas companies owning UK properties. The draft bill, first published in 2018, is designed to crack down on the use of offshore companies to obscure owners’ identities and their source of funds.

Combatting offshore tax evasion and avoidance is described as one of HMRC’s priorities and earlier this year the department unveiled plans to crack down on offshore tax avoidance by targeting UK-based entities facilitating the sale of avoidance schemes using tax havens. Responding to the move, Dame Margaret Hodge, a Labour MP and chair of the cross-party parliamentary group on anti-corruption and responsible tax, said: “It’s outrageous that HMRC should be using taxpayers’ money to benefit somebody that relies on offshore structures based in tax havens.”
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Alliance Party / Leftwinger / Atheist
Miniature Painting, Cheese, Curry, Tanks and English Gals are my Kryptonite


I never thought in terms of being a leader. I thought very simply in terms of helping people’ - John Hume


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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39956
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:31 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:HMRC to relocate to Newcastle office owned by Tory donors via tax haven

HM Revenue and Customs has struck a deal to relocate tax officials into a new office complex in Newcastle owned by major Conservative party donors through an offshore company based in a tax haven, the Guardian can reveal. The department’s planned new home in the north-east of England is part of a regeneration scheme developed by a British Virgin Islands (BVI) entity controlled by the billionaire property tycoons David and Simon Reuben.

The deal will see officials at the government department responsible for preventing tax avoidance working from a site owned by a subsidiary of a company based in a secretive offshore tax jurisdiction. The Reuben brothers, their family members and businesses have donated a combined £1.9m to the Tories. Earlier this week, the brothers are reported to have shared a table with Boris Johnson at an exclusive Tory party fundraising dinner. On Tuesday, officials including the Cabinet Office minister Steve Barclay announced HMRC had agreed the 25-year lease with one of the Reuben brothers’ companies.

The brothers are the second richest family in the UK, according to the Sunday Times’s rich list. David Reuben’s son, Jamie, is a close ally of the prime minister and has served as a Tory party treasurer. He has donated more than £750,000 to the party since Johnson entered Downing Street. The Reuben family has built a significant presence in Newcastle in recent years and is part of the controversial Saudi Arabia-led consortium that acquired Newcastle United football club in October.

Company filings show the family has frequently used BVI companies to hold its UK business interests, which include a luxury London property portfolio and a string of racecourses. A spokesperson for HMRC said the office complex in Newcastle is owned and will be developed by a UK company, Reuben Brothers (Newcastle) Limited. However, Companies House filings show the company’s sole shareholder when it was incorporated earlier this year was Taras Properties Limited in the BVI. Taras Properties first acquired the site in 2013 and transferred ownership of the land to the UK company in June this year for £10m, according to Land Registry records. The BVI company owns multiple large plots of land in central Newcastle in the area surrounding HMRC’s planned offices.

A spokesperson for the Reuben brothers confirmed the UK company is held by Taras Properties, but insisted the subsidiary “operates and pays taxes as a UK company”. HMRC’s spokesperson insisted the Reuben brothers’ company would be subject to normal UK tax regulation. “The lease payments and any gains on the sale are subject to UK tax,” they said. “HMRC is satisfied the deal represents the best value for money for the taxpayer.”

There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing by the Reuben brothers and owning UK property through offshore companies is perfectly legal. But the government’s decision to move 9,000 HMRC staff to the site comes as it faces calls to honour a commitment to introduce a register of overseas companies owning UK properties. The draft bill, first published in 2018, is designed to crack down on the use of offshore companies to obscure owners’ identities and their source of funds.

Combatting offshore tax evasion and avoidance is described as one of HMRC’s priorities and earlier this year the department unveiled plans to crack down on offshore tax avoidance by targeting UK-based entities facilitating the sale of avoidance schemes using tax havens. Responding to the move, Dame Margaret Hodge, a Labour MP and chair of the cross-party parliamentary group on anti-corruption and responsible tax, said: “It’s outrageous that HMRC should be using taxpayers’ money to benefit somebody that relies on offshore structures based in tax havens.”


You have to love the irony.

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