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Five people murdered after bowman snipes across Norway town

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:15 am

Vassenor wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
He was a white supremacist, not a Muslim.

We understand that this shooter was a Muslim, so that's certainly more evidence towards it being Islamism. Unless you think a Danish Muslim is also a white supremacist?


And everyone was insisting Breivik had to be a Muslim.

Has it really only taken ten years for the parable of Sun Aut Ex to pass from common knowledge?


The police believe that the motive was Islamic radicalism and are treating it as a terrorist incident.

People assumed Breivik was a Muslim when he wasn't. We're not assuming this guy was, we know he was. So this comparison is pretty garbage.

And apparently the police had concerns about his radicalization beforehand, according to the CNN source posted on page 1.
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Postby Deblar » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:15 am

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Postby Antipatros » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:18 am

Deblar wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rb94S_HIfXw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o048xeNQ3Wo
Last edited by Antipatros on Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kubra » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:20 am

Oh, a revert. Unsurprising.
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Postby Paddy O Fernature » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:41 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Have the police located his longship yet?


Not yet. They're going to be Odin a press conference about it soon.


Too soon for jokes man. After all, this is a Thor subject right now to talk about.

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Postby Vassenor » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:41 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And everyone was insisting Breivik had to be a Muslim.

Has it really only taken ten years for the parable of Sun Aut Ex to pass from common knowledge?


The police believe that the motive was Islamic radicalism and are treating it as a terrorist incident.

People assumed Breivik was a Muslim when he wasn't. We're not assuming this guy was, we know he was. So this comparison is pretty garbage.

And apparently the police had concerns about his radicalization beforehand, according to the CNN source posted on page 1.


Oh right I forgot people find the fact that you're not supposed to assume during a criminal investigation triggering.

Especially since right now the BBC is saying the motive has not yet been determined.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:48 am

Vassenor wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
The police believe that the motive was Islamic radicalism and are treating it as a terrorist incident.

People assumed Breivik was a Muslim when he wasn't. We're not assuming this guy was, we know he was. So this comparison is pretty garbage.

And apparently the police had concerns about his radicalization beforehand, according to the CNN source posted on page 1.


Oh right I forgot people find the fact that you're not supposed to assume during a criminal investigation triggering.

Especially since right now the BBC is saying the motive has not yet been determined.


Kongsberg: Bow and arrow attack appears to be terrorism - officials


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58910794

Last updated 48 minutes ago.
Last edited by Fartsniffage on Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:49 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Oh right I forgot people find the fact that you're not supposed to assume during a criminal investigation triggering.

Especially since right now the BBC is saying the motive has not yet been determined.


Kongsberg: Bow and arrow attack appears to be terrorism - officials


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58910794

Last updated 1 hour ago.


Le shock. How could we have ever known.
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Antipatros
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Postby Antipatros » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:59 am

Espen Andersen Brathen: What we know so far about suspected Norway bow and arrow killer

Norway bow-and-arrow terror suspect ID’d as Muslim convert who posted chilling video (warning: NY Post)

The attacker appears to have been suffering from mental health problems. He also posted a video to Facebook in December 2017 where he made some threatening/ominous sounding statements. That video got reported to police.
Last edited by Antipatros on Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Gravlen » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:08 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Kongsberg: Bow and arrow attack appears to be terrorism - officials


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58910794

Last updated 1 hour ago.


Le shock. How could we have ever known.

If you read the quoted statement, you'll notice it says "appears to be". That means that the motive has not yet been determined - as Vass is saying.

Here's what Norwegian news media is reporting:
- There is no doubt that the act itself appears to be a terrorist act, says PST chief Hans Sverre Sjøvold at a press conference on Thursday afternoon.

The accused has previously been in PST's spotlight.

Sjøvold also says that the case can be mainly about psychiatry.

- This is also a person who has gone in and out of the health care system for a period. We have to spend some time summarizing the history here, and it is important that the investigation now gets it straight, says Sjøvold.

- In the extreme, we might face a person here who is not sane.

Kongsbergdrapene: Tok seg inn i boliger og drepte

The police have not charged him with terrorism.

- Whether it is an act of terrorism is something the investigation will reveal. We currently have a basis for a charge of murder, says police attorney Ann Iren Svane Mathiassen to NTB.

She says he has given a relatively thorough explanation in questioning.

- He has given a kind of justification for what he did, the police attorney says.

Espen Andersen Bråthen er siktet for drapene i Kongsberg
Last edited by Gravlen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:09 pm

Antipatros wrote:Espen Andersen Brathen: What we know so far about suspected Norway bow and arrow killer

Norway bow-and-arrow terror suspect ID’d as Muslim convert who posted chilling video (warning: NY Post)

The attacker appears to have been suffering from mental health problems. He also posted a video to Facebook in December 2017 where he made some threatening/ominous sounding statements. That video got reported to police.

Hmm, so it's a Danish-Norwegian man born in Denmark who converted to Islam in the last ten years. How he got radicalized during the process of converting to Islam (or if he exhibited other red flag signs even before) will still need to be determined.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:19 pm

Andronya wrote:"gUn ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn gUnS!"

This happens

"bOW ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn bOwS!"


Your edge bending will not work here.

So pawpet; Norway has had 3 mass shooting (counting the bow guy) in the last 33 years. How many has the US had in that time?

Let’s not tangent the thread with guns are cool/guns suck talk.
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:20 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Andronya wrote:"gUn ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn gUnS!"

This happens

"bOW ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn bOwS!"


Your edge bending will not work here.

So pawpet; Norway has had 3 mass shooting (counting the bow guy) in the last 33 years. How many has the US had in that time?


And it's not that hard to get a gun. The murderer in question had access to a revolver at some point before the killings.

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Postby Gravlen » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:21 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Antipatros wrote:Espen Andersen Brathen: What we know so far about suspected Norway bow and arrow killer

Norway bow-and-arrow terror suspect ID’d as Muslim convert who posted chilling video (warning: NY Post)

The attacker appears to have been suffering from mental health problems. He also posted a video to Facebook in December 2017 where he made some threatening/ominous sounding statements. That video got reported to police.

Hmm, so it's a Danish-Norwegian man born in Denmark who converted to Islam in the last ten years. How he got radicalized during the process of converting to Islam (or if he exhibited other red flag signs even before) will still need to be determined.

[A childhood friend] experienced Bråthen as well-functioning, outgoing and with many friends in his youth. From his late teens, his friend Bråthen became more unstable, he pushed people away from him and he spent much time alone. He believes the perpetrator should have been better followed up by the authorities.

- I do not think he has walked around and planned to hurt some people, but he has been in so much pain that something had to happen.

According to the friend, Bråthen became interested in Islam for approx. 10 years ago.

- I do not think he has had any in-depth knowledge of Islam. I think he suddenly decided that this was something for him.


His deteriorating mental health situation looms large in this picture. He'll be undergoing a medical examination now, so we'll see what they conclude with.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:27 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Hmm, so it's a Danish-Norwegian man born in Denmark who converted to Islam in the last ten years. How he got radicalized during the process of converting to Islam (or if he exhibited other red flag signs even before) will still need to be determined.

[A childhood friend] experienced Bråthen as well-functioning, outgoing and with many friends in his youth. From his late teens, his friend Bråthen became more unstable, he pushed people away from him and he spent much time alone. He believes the perpetrator should have been better followed up by the authorities.

- I do not think he has walked around and planned to hurt some people, but he has been in so much pain that something had to happen.

According to the friend, Bråthen became interested in Islam for approx. 10 years ago.

- I do not think he has had any in-depth knowledge of Islam. I think he suddenly decided that this was something for him.


His deteriorating mental health situation looms large in this picture. He'll be undergoing a medical examination now, so we'll see what they conclude with.

The bolded part stands out to me since it suggest that just because he's converted to Islam, it doesn't really mean that it was a big factor or that he's a religious zealot and jihadist.
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:33 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Le shock. How could we have ever known.

If you read the quoted statement, you'll notice it says "appears to be". That means that the motive has not yet been determined - as Vass is saying.

Here's what Norwegian news media is reporting:
- There is no doubt that the act itself appears to be a terrorist act, says PST chief Hans Sverre Sjøvold at a press conference on Thursday afternoon.

The accused has previously been in PST's spotlight.

Sjøvold also says that the case can be mainly about psychiatry.

- This is also a person who has gone in and out of the health care system for a period. We have to spend some time summarizing the history here, and it is important that the investigation now gets it straight, says Sjøvold.

- In the extreme, we might face a person here who is not sane.

Kongsbergdrapene: Tok seg inn i boliger og drepte

The police have not charged him with terrorism.

- Whether it is an act of terrorism is something the investigation will reveal. We currently have a basis for a charge of murder, says police attorney Ann Iren Svane Mathiassen to NTB.

She says he has given a relatively thorough explanation in questioning.

- He has given a kind of justification for what he did, the police attorney says.

Espen Andersen Bråthen er siktet for drapene i Kongsberg


Mental illness usually plays a role in lone wolf attacks. That’s not exclusive to religious radicalism.
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:34 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Gravlen wrote:
[A childhood friend] experienced Bråthen as well-functioning, outgoing and with many friends in his youth. From his late teens, his friend Bråthen became more unstable, he pushed people away from him and he spent much time alone. He believes the perpetrator should have been better followed up by the authorities.

- I do not think he has walked around and planned to hurt some people, but he has been in so much pain that something had to happen.

According to the friend, Bråthen became interested in Islam for approx. 10 years ago.

- I do not think he has had any in-depth knowledge of Islam. I think he suddenly decided that this was something for him.


His deteriorating mental health situation looms large in this picture. He'll be undergoing a medical examination now, so we'll see what they conclude with.

The bolded part stands out to me since it suggest that just because he's converted to Islam, it doesn't really mean that it was a big factor or that he's a religious zealot and jihadist.

He visited a mosque in the town some years back.

A few years ago he was in the mosque in Kongsberg, confirms the chairman of the mosque.

- He was here two, three times in one month four, five, six years ago, Tlili says.

The man accused of murder admits the factual circumstances of the case, according to the police.

Tlili says he does not remember exactly when Bråthen was in the mosque, because it is a few years ago. He still says that he remembers the murder suspect, because he made an impression.

- There have been few people with a European or Scandinavian appearance in the 13-14 years the mosque has been here, says the chairman.

- In what way did he impress you?

- Both in message and behavior, says the chairman.

- Hw was speaking incoherently. He said he had been told from above to convey a message to the whole world. I said that Kongsberg is not the place to do it, says the chairman.

- Did you think he was radicalized?

- No, not at all. I thought more that he had received some kind of revelation. I did not perceive that it had anything to do with Islam.

The two, three times Bråthen stopped by, he did not stop by for prayer, says the chairman.

- He stopped by here and wanted a chat about a revelation, and we did not take it so seriously, to be honest, says the chairman.

He says that he does not remember what this revelation was specifically about, other than that it was a "strange message" he wanted to convey.

Kongsberg-moskeen fikk besøk av den siktede: – Han gjorde inntrykk
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Postby Gravlen » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:37 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Gravlen wrote:If you read the quoted statement, you'll notice it says "appears to be". That means that the motive has not yet been determined - as Vass is saying.

Here's what Norwegian news media is reporting:
- There is no doubt that the act itself appears to be a terrorist act, says PST chief Hans Sverre Sjøvold at a press conference on Thursday afternoon.

The accused has previously been in PST's spotlight.

Sjøvold also says that the case can be mainly about psychiatry.

- This is also a person who has gone in and out of the health care system for a period. We have to spend some time summarizing the history here, and it is important that the investigation now gets it straight, says Sjøvold.

- In the extreme, we might face a person here who is not sane.

Kongsbergdrapene: Tok seg inn i boliger og drepte

The police have not charged him with terrorism.

- Whether it is an act of terrorism is something the investigation will reveal. We currently have a basis for a charge of murder, says police attorney Ann Iren Svane Mathiassen to NTB.

She says he has given a relatively thorough explanation in questioning.

- He has given a kind of justification for what he did, the police attorney says.

Espen Andersen Bråthen er siktet for drapene i Kongsberg


Mental illness usually plays a role in lone wolf attacks. That’s not exclusive to religious radicalism.

Mental illness can preclude terroristic intent, however.

So the point remains, his motivations has yet to be determined.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:15 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Mental illness usually plays a role in lone wolf attacks. That’s not exclusive to religious radicalism.

Mental illness can preclude terroristic intent, however.

So the point remains, his motivations has yet to be determined.


So far it suggests mental illness. Since Norway doesn't have a death penalty; probably the best way to punish him is to make sure he doesn't get the publicity which motivated him. He wanted to be famous so don't give it to him.
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Postby Vikanias » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:18 pm

You don’t see a man killing people with a fucking bow everyday eh?
AAAAA IM ON FIRE!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE READING THIS SIG COME HELP ME FOR GODS SAKE AAAAAAA!!!!!!


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Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:19 pm

Clearly bows must be banned. Maybe arrows too.
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Postby Gravlen » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:26 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Mental illness can preclude terroristic intent, however.

So the point remains, his motivations has yet to be determined.


So far it suggests mental illness. Since Norway doesn't have a death penalty; probably the best way to punish him is to make sure he doesn't get the publicity which motivated him. He wanted to be famous so don't give it to him.

Likely he'll be sentenced to involuntary commitment. But yeah, I'd rather not see his name and picture published all over the place.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Postby Vikanias » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:Clearly bows must be banned. Maybe arrows too.


That’s not going to stop anything though. Bows are way easier to make than a gun.
AAAAA IM ON FIRE!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE READING THIS SIG COME HELP ME FOR GODS SAKE AAAAAAA!!!!!!


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Postby Vikanias » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:32 pm

Andronya wrote:"gUn ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn gUnS!"

This happens

"bOW ConTrOL wIll kEeP Us sAFe! bAn bOwS!"


If you want to prove your point don’t use mocktext.
AAAAA IM ON FIRE!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE READING THIS SIG COME HELP ME FOR GODS SAKE AAAAAAA!!!!!!


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Postby Umbratellus » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:58 pm

Vikanias wrote:That’s not going to stop anything though. Bows are way easier to make than a gun.

Guns aren't that hard to make nowadays either. You can 3D print pretty reliable ones, and guns aren't the most difficult thing in the world to construct from some basic piping either. To be quite frank I'd expect there to be significantly more people in the world who could make a gun from scratch than a properly fletched bow.

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