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American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

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Picairn
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Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:18 am


In my opinion, that is not enough. We need Progressive Era-level of mass protests and organized events from the middle class and the poor. Democracy is only as strong as the engagement of citizens in it.
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Yeerosland
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Posts: 213
Founded: Jun 10, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Yeerosland » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:25 am

Kilobugya wrote:
Yeerosland wrote:Redefining "majority" to mean anything but 51/100 is futile.


Well, it's technically 51/101 with VP Harris, which is a majority.

Yeerosland wrote:Nor is appeal to popular opinion going to get you far. Compared to the filibuster, all the other things are barely even a problem.


Because the democrats are bad at mobilizing said popular opinion. They should organize mass protests. Have voters swarm the Senators who block popular agenda with tons with e-mails, phone calls and snail mails. Organize protests in front of their office. Nothing violent, nothing "off limit" like harassing them during their family time, sure, but organize public opinion to act as pressure on Senators who block things. Organize a referendum, even if it's non-binding since the US Constitution doesn't allow them.


Non-violent protest would be good. But there's a problem still around from last year: tearaways and agents provocateur causing even a small amount of violence, turns the public perception of even a huge protest, bad. Protesters have to 'workshop' it with legal plans of action to neutralize or at least visibly reject violence if it does happen. It doesn't matter if theatre is all they can legally do by way of 'citizen arrest'. Theatre is better than nothing.

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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:34 am

Senkaku wrote:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democ ... oe-manchin <<< not sure if it's already been posted but... pressure on Manchin alone is not enough. The reason they're not organizing the kind of intense mass campaign Kilo wants? It's because it would actually end up targeting a lot of Democrats-- there's enough who are tacitly with him that it's not actually clear that the party apparatus as a whole disagrees with him (for a variety of their own reasons I'm sure), even if polls may show the mass base does.

noting that the people organizing this march aren't actually affiliated with the dems for a moment
i'm not actually certain this is as true as its made out to be
ever since we've heard this story, of some sort of "shadow cabal" behind manchin, there's been a lot of pressure-and you've seen moderates who were previously silent or opposed-tester, king, rosen- come out and say "i don't want to, but if it comes down to it, i'll vote to remove/reform the filibuster" (with the caveat that that means different things to different people)
the only counterexample i can think of is feinstein
but uh
that's not really a representative example
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Yeerosland
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Founded: Jun 10, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Yeerosland » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:54 am

I would characterize Feinstein as 'timid' on the Filibuster. I have no doubt she would vote with the majority.

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San Lumen
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New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:01 am

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics ... index.html

Harris invites all female senators for dinner at Naval Observatory amid infrastructure negotiations

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Kilobugya
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Posts: 5989
Founded: Apr 05, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:11 am

San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics/vice-president-female-senators-dinner/index.html

Harris invites all female senators for dinner at Naval Observatory amid infrastructure negotiations


We had our government doing a sh*tstorm because of a local NGO organizing occasional "non-mixity" (female only) bike repair workshop was referenced on the city of Paris website. And you've your VP making a female-only dinner. Sometimes US politics is less insane than French politics. That tells a lot how low French politics sank :(
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:25 am

Kilobugya wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics/vice-president-female-senators-dinner/index.html

Harris invites all female senators for dinner at Naval Observatory amid infrastructure negotiations


We had our government doing a sh*tstorm because of a local NGO organizing occasional "non-mixity" (female only) bike repair workshop was referenced on the city of Paris website. And you've your VP making a female-only dinner. Sometimes US politics is less insane than French politics. That tells a lot how low French politics sank :(


Tbh why should there be a female only bike repair shop? I'm not cool with a male only bar, so the idea of a female only anything seems kinda...strange.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:26 am

San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics/vice-president-female-senators-dinner/index.html

Harris invites all female senators for dinner at Naval Observatory amid infrastructure negotiations


Maybe they can discuss how they can meld feminism with blowing up black and brown women and kids. It's like a puzzle where if piece don't fit, you jump on the puzzle till you make them fit.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Great Algerstonia
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Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:28 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/08/politics/vice-president-female-senators-dinner/index.html

Harris invites all female senators for dinner at Naval Observatory amid infrastructure negotiations


Maybe they can discuss how they can meld feminism with blowing up black and brown women and kids. It's like a puzzle where if piece don't fit, you jump on the puzzle till you make them fit.

Feminism is a joke anyways, in all honesty.

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Kilobugya
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Founded: Apr 05, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:32 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Tbh why should there be a female only bike repair shop? I'm not cool with a male only bar, so the idea of a female only anything seems kinda...strange.


It's not a shop, it's a workshop where people learn to repair their bikes themselves. And since it seems some women fear it would be a male-heavy and somewhat toxic/harassing environment (no idea how valid that fear is), they made a few (not all of them) schedules women-only.
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Vassenor
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:33 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Maybe they can discuss how they can meld feminism with blowing up black and brown women and kids. It's like a puzzle where if piece don't fit, you jump on the puzzle till you make them fit.

Feminism is a joke anyways, in all honesty.


How so?
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Ifreann
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:34 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
We had our government doing a sh*tstorm because of a local NGO organizing occasional "non-mixity" (female only) bike repair workshop was referenced on the city of Paris website. And you've your VP making a female-only dinner. Sometimes US politics is less insane than French politics. That tells a lot how low French politics sank :(


Tbh why should there be a female only bike repair shop? I'm not cool with a male only bar, so the idea of a female only anything seems kinda...strange.

It sounds like a team building exercise kind of thing. Get together with the other women in the office and learn about bike repair. Not a business that only serves women.
Last edited by Ifreann on Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:41 am

Picairn wrote:

In my opinion, that is not enough. We need Progressive Era-level of mass protests and organized events from the middle class and the poor. Democracy is only as strong as the engagement of citizens in it.

Cute, no what you need is revolution.
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Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and is actively stripping away your constitutional rights.
Remake the Free World, wipe the slate clean, a nation born and baptized in blood and fire shall be reborn again.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:57 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Picairn wrote:In my opinion, that is not enough. We need Progressive Era-level of mass protests and organized events from the middle class and the poor. Democracy is only as strong as the engagement of citizens in it.

Cute, no what you need is revolution.


You guys seem to be suggesting different levels of the same thing.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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San Lumen
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Posts: 60240
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:17 am

Dresderstan wrote:
Picairn wrote:In my opinion, that is not enough. We need Progressive Era-level of mass protests and organized events from the middle class and the poor. Democracy is only as strong as the engagement of citizens in it.

Cute, no what you need is revolution.


what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.

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Picairn
Senator
 
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Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:17 am

Dresderstan wrote:Cute, no what you need is revolution.

Has there been any major revolution in the US since 1789? I proposed a solution from historical examples.
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Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

Salus Maior wrote:Nothing we say here actually matters.

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according to the far-left and far-right.
Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:18 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Cute, no what you need is revolution.


what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.

Elections barely got a semi-sane person into the office of your head of state despite 4 years of complete misgovernment by a fool. And yet you still believe they will solve anything?

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:18 am

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... a-threats/

Elections workers are facing death threats thanks to Trump's undermining of the election and propagate the Big Lie.

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Dresderstan
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Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:21 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Cute, no what you need is revolution.


what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.

False, elections have done nothing but let corrupt officials in and the rich fat cats line their own pockets while the rest of us struggle to barely get by. Peace is no longer an option.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and is actively stripping away your constitutional rights.
Remake the Free World, wipe the slate clean, a nation born and baptized in blood and fire shall be reborn again.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Posts: 15512
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:22 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.

Elections barely got a semi-sane person into the office of your head of state despite 4 years of complete misgovernment by a fool. And yet you still believe they will solve anything?

With how things are headed soon enough you could get a 100% majority for any other party in a district and the GOP will find a way to appoint a lackey from their party to "represent" that district.

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:23 am

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.

False, elections have done nothing but let corrupt officials in and the rich fat cats line their own pockets while the rest of us struggle to barely get by. Peace is no longer an option.


What a massive generalization.

What do you propose happen? Why don't you start this revolution in your state capital?

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Kilobugya
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Founded: Apr 05, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:23 am

San Lumen wrote:what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.


The problem is that elections are not enough. Gerrymandering. Senate where 50 GOP Senators represent 35% of the population, while 50 Dem Senators represent 65%. Electoral College. Voter suppression. Filibuster. Role of money in politics. And so many other issues, making the electoral process alone unable to deliver what the large majority of the population wants (like HR1, universal healthcare, bold infrastructure plan, tax hike for the rich and big corporations, more gun control, ...). So we need to do more than just voting. But I agree with you violence is not the solution, it very rarely is, and this is not one of those exceptional situations. Non-violent mass action, similar to Civil Rights protests, are a better solution, more ethical and more likely to have a positive effect.
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Borderlands of Rojava
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14658
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:False, elections have done nothing but let corrupt officials in and the rich fat cats line their own pockets while the rest of us struggle to barely get by. Peace is no longer an option.


What a massive generalization.

What do you propose happen? Why don't you start this revolution in your state capital?


One day you could end up saying that to the wrong person Lumen.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60240
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 am

Kilobugya wrote:
San Lumen wrote:what do you want to occur in this revolution? There is something called elections. Violence will get you nowhere.


The problem is that elections are not enough. Gerrymandering. Senate where 50 GOP Senators represent 35% of the population, while 50 Dem Senators represent 65%. Electoral College. Voter suppression. Filibuster. Role of money in politics. And so many other issues, making the electoral process alone unable to deliver what the large majority of the population wants (like HR1, universal healthcare, bold infrastructure plan, tax hike for the rich and big corporations, more gun control, ...). So we need to do more than just voting. But I agree with you violence is not the solution, it very rarely is, and this is not one of those exceptional situations. Non-violent mass action, similar to Civil Rights protests, are a better solution, more ethical and more likely to have a positive effect.


Get rid of gerrymandering and the electoral college. All redistricting should be done by independent commission. Go back to a talking filibuster.

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6199
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:25 am

San Lumen wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
The problem is that elections are not enough. Gerrymandering. Senate where 50 GOP Senators represent 35% of the population, while 50 Dem Senators represent 65%. Electoral College. Voter suppression. Filibuster. Role of money in politics. And so many other issues, making the electoral process alone unable to deliver what the large majority of the population wants (like HR1, universal healthcare, bold infrastructure plan, tax hike for the rich and big corporations, more gun control, ...). So we need to do more than just voting. But I agree with you violence is not the solution, it very rarely is, and this is not one of those exceptional situations. Non-violent mass action, similar to Civil Rights protests, are a better solution, more ethical and more likely to have a positive effect.


Get rid of gerrymandering and the electoral college. All redistricting should be done by independent commission. Go back to a talking filibuster.

Like it's that fucking easy, guess what it's not.
22 year old, PA male. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay. Anti-government revolutionary, one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter

Revolution for America
Imagine being shocked about the fact of greed, corruption, and abuse of power in government.
The media is a propaganda tool fueling the two parties hyperpartisanship and killing the country, it's time to end the "freedom of the press"
Violence against the government is and should be accepted by the people, especially when said government wants to and is actively stripping away your constitutional rights.
Remake the Free World, wipe the slate clean, a nation born and baptized in blood and fire shall be reborn again.

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