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Biden's Ban on Menthol Cigarettes

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Deacarsia
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Ban on Menthol Cigarettes

Postby Deacarsia » Tue May 04, 2021 10:24 pm

Political Geography wrote:Slippery slope fallacy. Menthol is not a drug. The prohibitory mindset works fine on superficial additives, for instance hundreds of food chemicals we don't even know the name of. For longer shelf life, or simply to save money avoiding the chemicals, there's no way private enterprise would have eliminated chemicals the consumer isn't even aware of.

Or fucking lead. There is no safe level of lead exposure, yet it was cheap and effective to improve the octane of fuel by catalysis. The customers weren't going to demand its removal from petrol because the customers weren't the main victims of it.

Why you would mention guns when making an argument against "prohibitionism" I can't imagine.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is not menthol present in most mints?
Síc enim Deus díléxit mundum, ut Fílium suum únigenitum daret: ut omnis quí crédit in eum, nón pereat, sed habeat vítam æternam.

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Postby Uzbekstaland » Tue May 04, 2021 10:25 pm

Guys enough about prohibition, we arent going back to that time.
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Postby Uzbekstaland » Tue May 04, 2021 10:26 pm

Deacarsia wrote:
Political Geography wrote:Slippery slope fallacy. Menthol is not a drug. The prohibitory mindset works fine on superficial additives, for instance hundreds of food chemicals we don't even know the name of. For longer shelf life, or simply to save money avoiding the chemicals, there's no way private enterprise would have eliminated chemicals the consumer isn't even aware of.

Or fucking lead. There is no safe level of lead exposure, yet it was cheap and effective to improve the octane of fuel by catalysis. The customers weren't going to demand its removal from petrol because the customers weren't the main victims of it.

Why you would mention guns when making an argument against "prohibitionism" I can't imagine.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is not menthol present in most mints?

This medication is used to treat minor aches and pains of the muscles/joints (such as arthritis, backache, sprains).
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Postby North Washington Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 10:27 pm

Uzbekstaland wrote:
Deacarsia wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but is not menthol present in most mints?

This medication is used to treat minor aches and pains of the muscles/joints (such as arthritis, backache, sprains).


Right. Biden isn’t looking to ban menthol, but banning menthol flavoring in cigarettes. Menthol is a legitimate medicine.
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Ban on Menthol Cigarettes

Postby Deacarsia » Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 pm

Uzbekstaland wrote:Guys enough about prohibition, we arent going back to that time.

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Postby Just-An-Illusion » Tue May 04, 2021 10:30 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Today it is forbidden to smoke menthol, cannabis and alcohol are forbidden tomorrow. The prohibitory mindset will never win, please leave people alone. The world should gather and tell the United States of America that gun kills more people than cigarettes.


What do guns have to do with this? I swear every time there's a topic about banning something NSG finds a way to talk about guns.
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Postby North Washington Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 10:31 pm

Deacarsia wrote:
Uzbekstaland wrote:Guys enough about prohibition, we arent going back to that time.

If I Could Turn Back Time


A far superior version.
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Ban on Menthol Cigarettes

Postby Deacarsia » Tue May 04, 2021 10:34 pm

North Washington Republic wrote:


A far superior version.

For some unfathomable reason, this causes me immense anxiety.
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Postby North Washington Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 10:35 pm

Deacarsia wrote:
North Washington Republic wrote:
A far superior version.

For some unfathomable reason, this causes me immense anxiety.


That’s unfortunate. I think it’s bangin’
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue May 04, 2021 10:37 pm

Just-An-Illusion wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Today it is forbidden to smoke menthol, cannabis and alcohol are forbidden tomorrow. The prohibitory mindset will never win, please leave people alone. The world should gather and tell the United States of America that gun kills more people than cigarettes.


What do guns have to do with this? I swear every time there's a topic about banning something NSG finds a way to talk about guns.
The unwavering mentality of the American government should restrict weapons production instead of banning smoking. Cigarettes that people smoke to relax will never clear the tears from the guns.I want an anti-militarist libertarian president for America.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue May 04, 2021 10:38 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Just-An-Illusion wrote:
What do guns have to do with this? I swear every time there's a topic about banning something NSG finds a way to talk about guns.
The unwavering mentality of the American government should restrict weapons production instead of banning smoking. Cigarettes that people smoke to relax will never clear the tears from the guns.I want an anti-militarist libertarian president for America.


Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.
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Postby Political Geography » Tue May 04, 2021 10:39 pm

Deacarsia wrote:
Political Geography wrote:Slippery slope fallacy. Menthol is not a drug. The prohibitory mindset works fine on superficial additives, for instance hundreds of food chemicals we don't even know the name of. For longer shelf life, or simply to save money avoiding the chemicals, there's no way private enterprise would have eliminated chemicals the consumer isn't even aware of.

Or fucking lead. There is no safe level of lead exposure, yet it was cheap and effective to improve the octane of fuel by catalysis. The customers weren't going to demand its removal from petrol because the customers weren't the main victims of it.

Why you would mention guns when making an argument against "prohibitionism" I can't imagine.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is not menthol present in most mints?


I was assuming that some of the menthol burning is the problem. It might be a bit harmful in its natural state but I'm assuming not.

Menthol or other flavoring in vapes is a bit different. On the one hand, smokers switching to vapes is an unequivocally good thing, and "just say no" hasn't worked well at all. On the other hand, people who have never done either would be better off not taking up vaping (better off financially at least: of all the minor luxuries one should spend on, an addictive drug that might look cool but does practically nothing, ranks not much above cigarettes).

Hmm. I've never vaped, but I have had little plastic inhalers. I know that in the absence of smoke or other "flavors" you can actually taste the nicotine. People will associate that taste with relief of cravings and gradually get to enjoy the taste more and more. I'm led to the conclusion that flavorings only serve to cover an unpleasant taste which might dissuade a new user, so should be heavily taxed or banned outright.

How urgent that is, depends on the new-addict ratio to ex-smokers ratio, of vaping. Which I don't know.
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Postby Senkaku » Tue May 04, 2021 10:41 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The unwavering mentality of the American government should restrict weapons production instead of banning smoking. Cigarettes that people smoke to relax will never clear the tears from the guns.I want an anti-militarist libertarian president for America.


Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.

I'd argue the recreational dopamine hit smoking gives you is a lot more "utilitarian" than having a deadly weapon lying around your home that you're unlikely to do anything with besides commit suicide or a felony
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue May 04, 2021 10:41 pm

Why are cigarettes allowed at all again?

Biden is doing well but I’m not sure it sends a strong enough message that tobacco is unhealthy and tobacco profiteering is a societal problem. He ought to go further.

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue May 04, 2021 10:46 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.

I'd argue the recreational dopamine hit smoking gives you is a lot more "utilitarian" than having a deadly weapon lying around your home that you're unlikely to do anything with besides commit suicide or a felony


Given the numbers on DGU incidents range from many tens of thousands to actual millions annually this seems more like an emotional position than one dictated by the numbers.

Infected Mushroom wrote:Why are cigarettes allowed at all again?

Biden is doing well but I’m not sure it sends a strong enough message that tobacco is unhealthy and tobacco profiteering is a societal problem. He ought to go further.


Smoking has mostly died off with younger generations it seems tbh. Honestly you probably could just outright ban it at this point and I'm not even sure how many people under 30 it'd impact.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue May 04, 2021 10:50 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The unwavering mentality of the American government should restrict weapons production instead of banning smoking. Cigarettes that people smoke to relax will never clear the tears from the guns.I want an anti-militarist libertarian president for America.


Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.
Do you know how many people died in Syria with the bullets of the terrorist organizations armed by the USA ? Smoking ban means restricting people's freedom to relax. If they really think about people's lives, they stop making weapons and create an unarmed army.
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Postby Political Geography » Tue May 04, 2021 10:50 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Why are cigarettes allowed at all again?

Biden is doing well but I’m not sure it sends a strong enough message that tobacco is unhealthy and tobacco profiteering is a societal problem. He ought to go further.


Advertising works best on young people (perhaps their urges are simpler?) and the competition between brands is a very weak justification in the case of cigarettes. The macro effect of tobacco advertising is to create more addicts.

Big taxes are good too, but I admit largely because I'm always looking to do some good by taxation. Taxes are typically harmful to some part or all of the economy, whereas harm to the tobacco sector is a net gain.

So yeah. First up, a total ban on advertising, including in-shop and internet. Watch while tobacco companies find a sudden interest in sponsoring anything that will display their logo. Then ban the displays of their logo, speeches at events by any of their employees, or any indication at all that they are sponsoring or donating. They will probably stop.
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Postby Immortan Khan » Tue May 04, 2021 10:57 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.
Do you know how many people died in Syria with the bullets of the terrorist organizations armed by the USA ? Smoking ban means restricting people's freedom to relax. If they really think about people's lives, they stop making weapons and create an unarmed army.

About 8 million people die per year because of smoking and other forms of tobacco consumption. That is far more than the number of violent deaths per year globally let alone in Syria which is a random thing to bring up to begin with.
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Postby Political Geography » Tue May 04, 2021 10:57 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.
Do you know how many people died in Syria with the bullets of the terrorist organizations armed by the USA ? Smoking ban means restricting people's freedom to relax. If they really think about people's lives, they stop making weapons and create an unarmed army.


"Freedom to relax" sounds kind of made up to me. Are the majority of adults who don't smoke (or vape) giving up an opportunity to relax?

Or maybe "relaxing" nothing more than gratification of a craving, which has been making the smoker increasingly irritable and unhappy up until they flick their lighter.

You never realize what a horrible burden on your life nicotine addiction is, until you try to give it up. I'll be honest, I thought I'd done it, but after 6 weeks I went back to it. I don't smoke, or chew tobacco (it apparently gives you mouth cancer) but I'm still a nicotine addict. I'm not at all happy with what that costs.
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue May 04, 2021 11:15 pm

Political Geography wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Do you know how many people died in Syria with the bullets of the terrorist organizations armed by the USA ? Smoking ban means restricting people's freedom to relax. If they really think about people's lives, they stop making weapons and create an unarmed army.


"Freedom to relax" sounds kind of made up to me. Are the majority of adults who don't smoke (or vape) giving up an opportunity to relax?

Or maybe "relaxing" nothing more than gratification of a craving, which has been making the smoker increasingly irritable and unhappy up until they flick their lighter.

You never realize what a horrible burden on your life nicotine addiction is, until you try to give it up. I'll be honest, I thought I'd done it, but after 6 weeks I went back to it. I don't smoke, or chew tobacco (it apparently gives you mouth cancer) but I'm still a nicotine addict. I'm not at all happy with what that costs.
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Postby Just-An-Illusion » Tue May 04, 2021 11:20 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Smoking kills more than 10 times as people than guns though. It doesn't even have utilitarian purposes like gun ownership does.
Do you know how many people died in Syria with the bullets of the terrorist organizations armed by the USA ? Smoking ban means restricting people's freedom to relax. If they really think about people's lives, they stop making weapons and create an unarmed army.


Bro what does Syria have to do with banning smokes?
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Postby North Washington Republic » Tue May 04, 2021 11:27 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Political Geography wrote:
"Freedom to relax" sounds kind of made up to me. Are the majority of adults who don't smoke (or vape) giving up an opportunity to relax?

Or maybe "relaxing" nothing more than gratification of a craving, which has been making the smoker increasingly irritable and unhappy up until they flick their lighter.

You never realize what a horrible burden on your life nicotine addiction is, until you try to give it up. I'll be honest, I thought I'd done it, but after 6 weeks I went back to it. I don't smoke, or chew tobacco (it apparently gives you mouth cancer) but I'm still a nicotine addict. I'm not at all happy with what that costs.
The fight against smoking should be through education, not a ban on smoking. it does not fix the ban problem, it just hides it.


Indeed. Prohibition of menthol cigarettes is going to lead to more violent crime.
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Postby Page » Wed May 05, 2021 12:31 am

New haven america wrote:
Page wrote:Black people love white people treating them like helpless children who can't make their own decisions, everyone knows that! Right?

This is just another step in a long line of moronic tobacco/nicotine policies in the United States. First you have the fiasco of cities, states, and the feds killing vaping, one of the greatest harm reduction advancements in human history! It especially ramped up after this "EVALI" garbage. For those of you who don't know, there was one specific type of illicit THC cartridge laced with Vitamin E acetate which is very, very poisonous and made people sick, so the government responded by... banning flavored nicotine products?

Let's put this into perspective: Imagine that a single farmer sold black market milk poisoned with cyanide and the government's response was to ban coffee nationwide.

Then with cigarettes, you have the FDA GIVING PEOPLE MORE CANCER by limiting the amount of nicotine in cigarettes. Lower nicotine content doesn't stop addiction! In fact, nicotine addiction has almost nothing to do with the amount in a single dose and everything to do with the frequency of consumption. A person consuming 10 very low nicotine cigarettes throughout the day will get addicted much, much faster than a person inhaling a metric fuckton of nicotine once or twice a day. But what's worse is that nicotine limits will cause smokers to smoke more. We KNOW THIS, because this is what happened with lights. When lights came out, smokers started covering the perforated filters to compensate for the reduction.

If smokers aren't getting an adequate nicotine hit, they will inhale deeper, longer, more frequently, and smoke more cigarettes.

And by the way, all over the country, they're doing the same moronic thing with medicinal cannabis. Banning high THC bud, the dumbest thing you could do. Don't take one little puff of this high THC product to get what you're looking for, no, smoke 4 whole joints of government approved weak-ass shit. Your lungs don't have enough tar in them!

Vaping produces most of the same side effects of regular nicotine/pot smoking, along with the fact that a lot of vape companies targeted high schoolers specifically to get them addicted early in life.

So no, it was not and never has been "One of the greatest harm reeducation advancements in human history!"


No, it doesn't. I switched from smoking to vaping back in 2014. I had constant smokers' cough from cigarettes, I don't have smokers' cough at all now. I can hold my breath for literally twice as long, I don't get tired walking upstairs. And by the way, if you switch from smoking to vaping, your senses of smell and taste come back just like it you quit altogether. I know this because I quit smoking cold turkey twice before I switched to vaping, I know when I could smell and taste things and when not.

The only effects from smoking that are still present in vaping are effects caused by nicotine, because nicotine is the only common ingredient. So high blood pressure can be one (mine is perfect though), you can give yourself a headache from too much nicotine, there are effects but nicotine is a pretty benign drug outside of its high addictive potential.

Vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking, a fact acknowledged by many governments including the British government that encourages those who can't quit to switch over. Meanwhile FDA approved quit smoking drug Chantix MAKES YOU SUICIDAL, but that's an acceptable side effect.

And as for the whole thing of targeting high schoolers, first of all, the combined rate of teen cigarette smoking and teen vaping is still lower than the teen smoking rate before vaping existed. Which means that teen smoking keeps falling, only that those who would have tried cigarettes try vaping instead. And the people who actually make money off teen vaping like the company that makes Juuls are the last ones to be regulated.

Teens get cheap and disposable vapes from sketchy gas stations that don't card. Every small business vape shop I've ever known does card and no one under 18 is allowed inside, so the government claim that flavors target kids is sus when at the shops adult vapers go too, the flavors can never be seen by kids in the first place. But what do governments do? First they impose expensive regulations and taxes that drive the little guy out of business. The socially responsible small businesses that don't advertise and do card collapse under the weight of government regulation. Then they go after online sales and the mail. Why is it that the huge corporations that benefit from underage vaping are the last ones to fall?

It's almost as if they want people to go back to smoking cigarettes. What an unthinkable conspiracy theory! Except... there is this thing called the Master Settlement Agreement tobacco companies have with all the states, and part of it says the more people are smoking cigarettes, the more tobacco companies have to pay out to those states every years. But then comes vaping and people quit smoking faster than anyone could have ever imagined, and that means less cigarette sales, fewer MSA dollars. But the states have already spent the MSA money. They bounced the check. Especially California where totally coincidentally the most insane and baseless regulations on vaping are made.
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Page
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Postby Page » Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 am

Mercatus wrote:
New haven america wrote:Vaping produces most of the same side effects of regular nicotine/pot smoking, along with the fact that a lot of vape companies targeted high schoolers specifically to get them addicted early in life.

So no, it was not and never has been "One of the greatest harm reeducation advancements in human history!"


Pretty sure vapes can also turn into tiny grenades occasionally. I’d rather get cancer than have my mouth blown off. Not that I do smoke or vape, but I’m just adding my two cents.


No. Vapes don't explode. Lithium batteries that power the vapes explode. There is a huge difference. None of these accidents happen because of defects in the device, they happen because of defects in the batteries, the same batteries that power many, many other things.

Basic battery safety almost completely eliminates the potential for accidents. If there is a tear in your battery, you throw it away and replace it with a new one. It's painfully easy to teach battery safety, I could teach anyone all they need to know in literally 5 minutes.
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 am

The bans in the EU and other countries are nothing to do with the American obsession with skin colour. It is because young people who smoke menthol cigarettes are more likely to become lifelong smokers than those that smoke non-menthol cigarettes. The menthol inhibits the metabolisation of nicotine, meaning that smokers of menthol cigarettes are exposed to more nicotine and develop a stronger nicotine addiction.

Addiction to anything is not freedom.
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