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by Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:57 pm
Postauthoritarian America wrote:Cordel One wrote:NASA used to be the one going into space, though.
NASA was never much more than a conduit for funding for Lockheed, Martin Marietta and the rest of the military-industrial complex that benefitted from the wasteful manned space program. Go visit Canaveral some time, that's who's manning what amounts to the manned space program trade show booths. Which would be acceptible if they were doing science instead of blowing soap bubbles and lighting farts in space for shits and giggles.
by Postauthoritarian America » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:01 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Postauthoritarian America wrote:
NASA was never much more than a conduit for funding for Lockheed, Martin Marietta and the rest of the military-industrial complex that benefitted from the wasteful manned space program. Go visit Canaveral some time, that's who's manning what amounts to the manned space program trade show booths. Which would be acceptible if they were doing science instead of blowing soap bubbles and lighting farts in space for shits and giggles.
Of all the "military-industrial complex" stuff the US spends money on, why would you object to space programs?
You know why they built GPS, don't you?
by Postauthoritarian America » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:14 pm
Parxland wrote:Guys, it's okay! This is why we have duct tape!
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:22 pm
Postauthoritarian America wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Of all the "military-industrial complex" stuff the US spends money on, why would you object to space programs?
You know why they built GPS, don't you?
I object to human space programs that send our best and brightest to be sacrificed to the vain conceit that there is somewhere other for humanity than Earth. Particularly insofar as their main purpose is to pump up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
by Postauthoritarian America » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:23 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Postauthoritarian America wrote:
I object to human space programs that send our best and brightest to be sacrificed to the vain conceit that there is somewhere other for humanity than Earth. Particularly insofar as their main purpose is to pump up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
"Colonizing" other planets has always seemed rather far-fetched to me. But NASA also does Earth science. And I like GPS.
by Cordel One » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:27 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Postauthoritarian America wrote:
NASA was never much more than a conduit for funding for Lockheed, Martin Marietta and the rest of the military-industrial complex that benefitted from the wasteful manned space program. Go visit Canaveral some time, that's who's manning what amounts to the manned space program trade show booths. Which would be acceptible if they were doing science instead of blowing soap bubbles and lighting farts in space for shits and giggles.
Of all the "military-industrial complex" stuff the US spends money on, why would you object to space programs?
You know why they built GPS, don't you?
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:39 pm
Cordel One wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Of all the "military-industrial complex" stuff the US spends money on, why would you object to space programs?
You know why they built GPS, don't you?
I do object to the military industrial complex, and while the state would ideally be producing all its own parts at least it's the one sending the rockets into space.
by San Lumen » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:44 pm
Northwest Slobovia wrote:Cordel One wrote:I do object to the military industrial complex, and while the state would ideally be producing all its own parts at least it's the one sending the rockets into space.
Still is. Or do you imagine Musk is sending NASA astronauts to ISS for free?
And, um, you are aware that all of NASA's boosters were built by private companies, and most were designed by them as well? And that private companies have been flying private payloads on said privately built boosters for decades (that is, comm sats)?
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:45 pm
San Lumen wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:Still is. Or do you imagine Musk is sending NASA astronauts to ISS for free?
And, um, you are aware that all of NASA's boosters were built by private companies, and most were designed by them as well? And that private companies have been flying private payloads on said privately built boosters for decades (that is, comm sats)?
What does this have to do with the topic?
by Grenartia » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:47 pm
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:07 pm
Grenartia wrote:And now we as a species are wandering a dark and cluttered room with nothing but a dinky little laser pointer, after our nice little flashlight burned its bulb out.
by Grenartia » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:13 pm
Northwest Slobovia wrote:Grenartia wrote:And now we as a species are wandering a dark and cluttered room with nothing but a dinky little laser pointer, after our nice little flashlight burned its bulb out.
How 'bout some nice IR goggles? Would you believe an IR monocle? It was funded about a year ago, with launch expected in 2025. That's probably gonna be it for replacing Arecibo's NEO finding and tracking capability. Well, other than NEOWISE, which isn't very good at it, but has the advantage that it's in orbit already.
by Adamede » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:28 am
Postauthoritarian America wrote:Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Of all the "military-industrial complex" stuff the US spends money on, why would you object to space programs?
You know why they built GPS, don't you?
I object to human space programs that send our best and brightest to be sacrificed to the vain conceit that there is somewhere other for humanity than Earth. Particularly insofar as their main purpose is to pump up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
by Grenartia » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:31 am
Adamede wrote:Postauthoritarian America wrote:
I object to human space programs that send our best and brightest to be sacrificed to the vain conceit that there is somewhere other for humanity than Earth. Particularly insofar as their main purpose is to pump up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
Then Earth is humanity’s grave, and there is no purpose for astronomy at all, let alone those “best and brightest”.
And last I checked less peole have died to the space programs, and less money and material wasted and destroyed, than in even in the most minor of wars.
Of all the things to be upset by government waste on, space is one of the most petty.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:05 am
Adamede wrote:Postauthoritarian America wrote:
I object to human space programs that send our best and brightest to be sacrificed to the vain conceit that there is somewhere other for humanity than Earth. Particularly insofar as their main purpose is to pump up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
Then Earth is humanity’s grave, and there is no purpose for astronomy at all, let alone those “best and brightest”.
And last I checked less peole have died to the space programs, and less money and material wasted and destroyed, than in even in the most minor of wars.
Of all the things to be upset by government waste on, space is one of the most petty.
by Adamede » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:21 am
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Adamede wrote:Then Earth is humanity’s grave, and there is no purpose for astronomy at all, let alone those “best and brightest”.
And last I checked less peole have died to the space programs, and less money and material wasted and destroyed, than in even in the most minor of wars.
Of all the things to be upset by government waste on, space is one of the most petty.
I agree with your conclusion, but it's worth remembering that space exploration, discovery and commercialization began with military purposes. Blowing the fuck out of people on the other side of the planet.
Since the late 70's, NASA has had to compete for launch services with the USSR, then Russia.
Without lavish military spending driving the technology and cutting the price for civilians -- scientific and commercial alike -- there would be much less science being done in space. Launch price would take up so much of what government is prepared to spend on space science, that the "payload" of science equipment would be far less.
IF there had even been a Hubble space telescope, the expensive and dangerous operation to upgrade it (from near-useless to splendid) would likely never have happened. The public perception that Hubble has discovered pretty much everything about the early Universe and most distant galaxies, would not support the more difficult and expensive James Webb.
Bringing me back to GPS. "Someone would have built it, sooner or later" does not cut it. Russia, and Europe, and China only built their own (inferior) versions of GPS because they had to. It was part of the great arms race which was part of the Cold War. Satellites cannot be kept secret, and their encryption is like any other encryption: giving away vast amounts of encrypted data to an adversary makes it easier and easier over time for the adversary to decode at least some of it. Well you may believe that military encryption is any better than the best civilian encryption, but I don't believe it. Except in times of war, the government cannot buy the best talent available because they will not pay the asking price. The encryption which keeps full accuracy of GPS from the public is no stronger than any other encryption, it's just that lawful commercial players do not need it. Within a metre or so is good enough, for commercial purposes.
GPS is a massive gift, from the "military-industrial complex" to business in general, and to individuals like ourselves. I beg to know your sincere opinion of GPS.
by Grenartia » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:25 am
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:28 am
by Heloin » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:35 am
Grenartia wrote:
Scott Manley is how I first heard about it.
Also, you forgot to mention that he's basically the guy that taught virtually every KSP player how to play.
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Yet photographs show a big rectangular hole -- roughly the size and shape of the instrument carriage -- plumb in the middle of the dish.
And rents through the aluminium surface, compatible with something very heavy falling on the dish and wrenching its steel sub-structure out of shape.
The simulation is also rather amateurish. What I'd expect from a DJ ...
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:33 am
Heloin wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Scott Manley is how I first heard about it.
Also, you forgot to mention that he's basically the guy that taught virtually every KSP player how to play.
It takes an rocket scientist to teach you rocket science. Turns out that shit is hard.Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Yet photographs show a big rectangular hole -- roughly the size and shape of the instrument carriage -- plumb in the middle of the dish.
And rents through the aluminium surface, compatible with something very heavy falling on the dish and wrenching its steel sub-structure out of shape.
The simulation is also rather amateurish. What I'd expect from a DJ ...
Terrain deformation and destruction physics are expensive and rarely worth it for such demonstrations.
Also if your curious he does give a very good explanation of the whole incident https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vchDbyIRP44
by Telconi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:33 am
San Lumen wrote:La Paz de Los Ricos wrote:It's official. The old girl will be decommissioned and subsequently demolished after it has been deemed too risky for workers to try and repair the damage.
From the NSF (website): https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=301674
From the NSF (Twitter announcement): https://twitter.com/NSF/status/13294626 ... gr%5Etweet
From Space.com: https://www.space.com/arecibo-observato ... -destroyed
When I made the Arecibo damage thread back in August, initially the damage caused to the dish by the wire seemed to have been fixable. Now, it appears that damage from María and the recent earthquakes has led to the decision being called for the telescope's demolition. The visitor center, to my knowledge, will remain standing, but the dish itself, and the support towers, must come down.
what a tragedy and huge loss to astronomy.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:36 am
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