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Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
188
40%
Eastern Orthodox
30
6%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
1
0%
Anglican/Episcopalian
24
5%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
50
11%
Methodist
8
2%
Baptist
45
10%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
37
8%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
21
4%
Other Christian
65
14%
 
Total votes : 469

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New Visayan Islands
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 am

Adamede wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
...

wat :blink:

I think he means if somehow the Muslims came to dominate the West Western culture would become far more Christian fundamentalist as a backlash.

IOW, Reconquista cranked up to 11?
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Lost Memories
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lost Memories » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:45 am

New Visayan Islands wrote:Friendly reminder that November 22nd is Sollemnitas DNIC Universorum Regis under the current General Roman Calendar.

¡Viva Cristo Rey!

Thanks for the reminder in advance.

After checking it out, it seems the current liturgical calendar is about to end, and a new cicle is about to start. As the Solemnity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, King of the Universe (or Feast of Christ the King), falls on the last sunday of the liturgical year. (somewhere between 20 and 26 November, according to the year to week alignment, in the ordinary general roman calendar)
This year the Feast of Christ the King overlaps with the day of Saint Cecilia, known as the patron of music and musicians.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

ag

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As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
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or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

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Black Hetmanate
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Black Hetmanate » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Adamede wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
...

wat :blink:

I think he means if somehow the Muslims came to dominate the West Western culture would become far more Christian fundamentalist as a backlash.

Not really. We share with Islam some of the Old Testament, Jesus is seen by Muslims as one of the prophets and Mary is also the most important woman to their beliefs. According to Qur'an, Christians are among the Peoples of the Book, who receive preferable treatment compared to other religions. We would likely witness a return to an Abrahamic-derived morality. My point was such a situation would likely be more Christian in spirit than the current Western culture, which ends up further and further from its Christian influences each year. Calling our current civilization Christian in any form would be blapshemous. It remains a question of what do we prefer, as Muslims are outnumbering us demographically and atheists are winning the public discourse with us. Gospel-wise, all of this has been predicted and we are not to fear either way.
Last edited by Black Hetmanate on Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lost Memories
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lost Memories » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:46 pm

I think there is a lot of inflated perception over the "success of atheism"
Most of the (west) news media is irreligiously biased, history books for the last 500 years have been irreligiously biased (especially those written in english, under aristocratic and/or snobbish propaganda), the internet is mainly populated by those with lots of time to spare, meaning many teens in their edgy atheist phase of life (or said otherwise, the phase of personal decision over faith), inflating the perception of atheist relevance over internet.
There is also, worldwide more than half of the atheists are chinese (720,100,000 chinese atheists over 1,193,750,000 atheists worldwide), who either have their folk cults, cult of money, or cult of the chinese communist heroes.
Once one either learns to filter out biases from the media, or finds less biased sources with a more complete coverage, once one studies a bit history from researches up to date with the current discourse on historiography, and just spends less time following the internet trends, it just starts to look like an atheist bubble, like the economic bubbles, it's going to bursts eventually.

The muslims in comparison have a much firmer hold over reality than the atheists.
(only so long the governments of the muslim majority nations are going to enforce islam, without government religious enforcement there may be much fewer muslims around)
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

ag

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:58 pm

Lost Memories wrote:I think there is a lot of inflated perception over the "success of atheism"
Most of the (west) news media is irreligiously biased, history books for the last 500 years have been irreligiously biased (especially those written in english, under aristocratic and/or snobbish propaganda), the internet is mainly populated by those with lots of time to spare, meaning many teens in their edgy atheist phase of life (or said otherwise, the phase of personal decision over faith), inflating the perception of atheist relevance over internet.
There is also, worldwide more than half of the atheists are chinese (720,100,000 chinese atheists over 1,193,750,000 atheists worldwide), who either have their folk cults, cult of money, or cult of the chinese communist heroes.
Once one either learns to filter out biases from the media, or finds less biased sources with a more complete coverage, once one studies a bit history from researches up to date with the current discourse on historiography, and just spends less time following the internet trends, it just starts to look like an atheist bubble, like the economic bubbles, it's going to bursts eventually.

The muslims in comparison have a much firmer hold over reality than the atheists.
(only so long the governments of the muslim majority nations are going to enforce islam, without government religious enforcement there may be much fewer muslims around)


What does this post have to do with christianity? It's only paragraphs on atheists and muslims :unsure:
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Lost Memories wrote:I think there is a lot of inflated perception over the "success of atheism"
Most of the (west) news media is irreligiously biased, history books for the last 500 years have been irreligiously biased (especially those written in english, under aristocratic and/or snobbish propaganda), the internet is mainly populated by those with lots of time to spare, meaning many teens in their edgy atheist phase of life (or said otherwise, the phase of personal decision over faith), inflating the perception of atheist relevance over internet.
There is also, worldwide more than half of the atheists are chinese (720,100,000 chinese atheists over 1,193,750,000 atheists worldwide), who either have their folk cults, cult of money, or cult of the chinese communist heroes.
Once one either learns to filter out biases from the media, or finds less biased sources with a more complete coverage, once one studies a bit history from researches up to date with the current discourse on historiography, and just spends less time following the internet trends, it just starts to look like an atheist bubble, like the economic bubbles, it's going to bursts eventually.

The muslims in comparison have a much firmer hold over reality than the atheists.
(only so long the governments of the muslim majority nations are going to enforce islam, without government religious enforcement there may be much fewer muslims around)


What does this post have to do with christianity? It's only paragraphs on atheists and muslims :unsure:

Dunno, but in general it is a very peculiar post ngl...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Black Hetmanate
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Founded: Nov 19, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Black Hetmanate » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:08 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
What does this post have to do with christianity? It's only paragraphs on atheists and muslims :unsure:

Dunno, but in general it is a very peculiar post ngl...


I guess it was supposed to be a response to my post, regarding my notion of a consistently religion-dumping West. Still, it's theory versus statistics.
Catholic who studies Saracens and is an ENTP right-of-center headache
Previously known as Jankau-Helmutsberg, Icesteam and Frostaland

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Adamede
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:29 pm

New Visayan Islands wrote:
Adamede wrote:I think he means if somehow the Muslims came to dominate the West Western culture would become far more Christian fundamentalist as a backlash.

IOW, Reconquista cranked up to 11?

Probably. Alright I’d think that part of their “cranked up to 11” involved trying to not make it last 800 some years.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:32 pm

Black Hetmanate wrote:
Adamede wrote:I think he means if somehow the Muslims came to dominate the West Western culture would become far more Christian fundamentalist as a backlash.

Not really. We share with Islam some of the Old Testament, Jesus is seen by Muslims as one of the prophets and Mary is also the most important woman to their beliefs. According to Qur'an, Christians are among the Peoples of the Book, who receive preferable treatment compared to other religions. We would likely witness a return to an Abrahamic-derived morality. My point was such a situation would likely be more Christian in spirit than the current Western culture, which ends up further and further from its Christian influences each year. Calling our current civilization Christian in any form would be blapshemous. It remains a question of what do we prefer, as Muslims are outnumbering us demographically and atheists are winning the public discourse with us. Gospel-wise, all of this has been predicted and we are not to fear either way.

That’s not becoming more Christian, that’s just shifting to an Islamic dominated culture where if you’re not Muslim you better be a dhimmi.

And seeing what comes from Muslim fundamentals it’s, if that an example of Abrahamic derived morality I’d say we’re better off without it.
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Black Hetmanate
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Postby Black Hetmanate » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:42 pm

Adamede wrote:That’s not becoming more Christian, that’s just shifting to an Islamic dominated culture where if you’re not Muslim you better be a dhimmi.

Why not? It's much closer to Christianity than what much of what dominates our culture today.

Adamede wrote:And seeing what comes from Muslim fundamentals it’s, if that an example of Abrahamic derived morality I’d say we’re better off without it.

The same could be said about some of our "fundamentals" from the countless sects and denominations we've developed and even the rhetoric and actions of some major denomination mavericks.
Last edited by Black Hetmanate on Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:55 pm

Saying an Islamic society is closer to a Christian society than a secular society is like saying spiders are closer to ants than worms.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:36 pm

Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.

A secular society with freedom of religion is fine, comparatively.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:41 pm

Salus Maior wrote:Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.

A secular society with freedom of religion is fine, comparatively.



I'm an avid secularist, so...
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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:50 am

Happy Stir-up Sunday to my fellow Anglicans, and a happy Feast of Christ the King to those who celebrate it. I'd like to share today's collect from the Book of Common Prayer: "Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may of thee be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:16 am

Salus Maior wrote:Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.


Well, I've done it twice now, and my testicles didn't shrivel up and fall off, nor did I end up declaring that Allah is the one true God, and Mohammed his prophet; so personal experience suggests it's survivable.

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:35 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:Happy Stir-up Sunday to my fellow Anglicans, and a happy Feast of Christ the King to those who celebrate it. I'd like to share today's collect from the Book of Common Prayer: "Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may of thee be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."

Woohoo!
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:06 am

Black Hetmanate wrote:
Adamede wrote:That’s not becoming more Christian, that’s just shifting to an Islamic dominated culture where if you’re not Muslim you better be a dhimmi.

Why not? It's much closer to Christianity than what much of what dominates our culture today.

Adamede wrote:And seeing what comes from Muslim fundamentals it’s, if that an example of Abrahamic derived morality I’d say we’re better off without it.

The same could be said about some of our "fundamentals" from the countless sects and denominations we've developed and even the rhetoric and actions of some major denomination mavericks.

Yep, Christian fundamentalism is just as terrible.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:07 am

Salus Maior wrote:Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.

A secular society with freedom of religion is fine, comparatively.

“Comparatively”
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:20 am

I had to miss morning mass unfortunately. I have to do video mass in the evening and it's unfortunate.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:06 pm

Adamede wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.

A secular society with freedom of religion is fine, comparatively.

“Comparatively”


Ideally I would prefer a government that is explicitly Christian in nature.

At the very least, something like Britain where the Church plays a role in ceremonial duties, with a monarchy.

And yes, I'm aware that you most likely are not a fan of that idea.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:06 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:Happy Stir-up Sunday to my fellow Anglicans

I hear that my mother was making Ecclefechan tarts today instead.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:08 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:Just want to say, I would rather die than live in an Islamic society.


Well, I've done it twice now, and my testicles didn't shrivel up and fall off, nor did I end up declaring that Allah is the one true God, and Mohammed his prophet; so personal experience suggests it's survivable.


Considering you are a foreign professional in the Middle East, I would hope that you know that your experience in Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, etc. would be different from the native Christian community that lives under Islamic societies permanently, such as the Copts or Assyrians.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:30 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
Well, I've done it twice now, and my testicles didn't shrivel up and fall off, nor did I end up declaring that Allah is the one true God, and Mohammed his prophet; so personal experience suggests it's survivable.


Considering you are a foreign professional in the Middle East, I would hope that you know that your experience in Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, etc. would be different from the native Christian community that lives under Islamic societies permanently, such as the Copts or Assyrians.


Of course I do; but that wasn't what you wrote down.

You wrote 'I would rather die than live in an Islamic society'; there weren't any qualifiers in that statement.

It seems that what you wanted to write was 'I would rather die than be a native Christian living in an Islamic society'; which I think is still a bit absolutist for my tastes, and doesn't distinguish between the very different experiences of, say, Assyrians, Copts, and Jordanian Orthodox Christians. But it would have a fairer reflection of the point you were trying to make.

Though it would also be fair to point out that, unless I've sadly misjudged this, I almost certainly know rather more Copts in Egypt than you do.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:33 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:Though it would also be fair to point out that, unless I've sadly misjudged this, I almost certainly know rather more Copts in Egypt than you do.


I mean, yes, I would imagine so considering I've never even been to the Old World. But I do understand that they're a seriously marginalized community in their country, as most Christians are in the Middle East.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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