Sudan to normalize relations with Israel

[Vivolkha]

Israel exists, whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Arabs lost their legitimacy when they resorted to force (repeatedly) and lost badly (repeatedly). If you want to play "might makes right", then accept the consequences.

The Israelis were the ones who resorted to force, the Arabs only used force to defend their lands.

That's questionable, considering the Arabs where the ones that didn't accept the partition plan. And, as controversial as the plan itself might be, you just can't deny the fact that by then there were already many Jews living in British Palestine who also had the right to their land.

Side note, I'm using the word Arabs instead of Palestinians to denote the intervention of foreign Arab-majority countries, not to deny the existance of Palestinians as a group.

[-Ocelot-]

Israel exists, whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Arabs lost their legitimacy when they resorted to force (repeatedly) and lost badly (repeatedly). If you want to play "might makes right", then accept the consequences.

The Israelis were the ones who resorted to force, the Arabs only used force to defend their lands.

The poster you reply to is correct. For example, look up Six day war. Caused by Gamal Abdel Nasser (Egypt). Israel had to fight against 4 Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria) and still won with few casualties. Every time conflict happens in that region, it's because the Arabs can't accept that Israel exists, not the other way around.

[Aureumterra III]

Disappointing and disgraceful but not surprising. If there's one thing Arab countries are good at, it's throwing other Arabs under the bus.

Israel exists, whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Arabs lost their legitimacy when they resorted to force (repeatedly) and lost badly (repeatedly). If you want to play "might makes right", then accept the consequences.

I’m always amazed at the fact that a country the size of Delaware in the US fought off four countries with populations many times larger

[Punished UMN]

The Israelis were the ones who resorted to force, the Arabs only used force to defend their lands.

That's questionable, considering the Arabs where the ones that didn't accept the partition plan. And, as controversial as the plan itself might be, you just can't deny the fact that by then there were already many Jews living in British Palestine who also had the right to their land.

Side note, I'm using the word Arabs instead of Palestinians to denote the intervention of foreign Arab-majority countries, not to deny the existance of Palestinians as a group.

That's not questionable, that just means that the Israelis resorted to force when the Arabs refused their demands.

[Punished UMN]

The Israelis were the ones who resorted to force, the Arabs only used force to defend their lands.

The poster you reply to is correct. For example, look up Six day war. Caused by Gamal Abdel Nasser (Egypt). Israel had to fight against 4 Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria) and still won with few casualties. Every time conflict happens in that region, it's because the Arabs can't accept that Israel exists, not the other way around.

Israel didn't exist in 1947, which is the year I'm talking about.

[The Restored Danelaw]

Israel exists, whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Arabs lost their legitimacy when they resorted to force (repeatedly) and lost badly (repeatedly). If you want to play "might makes right", then accept the consequences.

The Israelis were the ones who resorted to force, the Arabs only used force to defend their lands.

That's categorically false.

[Vivolkha]

That's questionable, considering the Arabs where the ones that didn't accept the partition plan. And, as controversial as the plan itself might be, you just can't deny the fact that by then there were already many Jews living in British Palestine who also had the right to their land.

Side note, I'm using the word Arabs instead of Palestinians to denote the intervention of foreign Arab-majority countries, not to deny the existance of Palestinians as a group.

That's not questionable, that just means that the Israelis resorted to force when the Arabs refused their demands.

On the contrary, Arabs resorted time and time again to force to drive the Jews out, and have failed every single time. Jews were already there by 1947 and had a right to their land.

[Punished UMN]

That's not questionable, that just means that the Israelis resorted to force when the Arabs refused their demands.

On the contrary, Arabs resorted time and time again to force to drive the Jews out, and have failed every single time. Jews were already there by 1947 and had a right to their land.

It wasn't "their" land, not all of the parts they claimed. The Jewish residents of Palestine had a right to something, but not to all of the land they claimed and all of the land they took.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Lessening the threat of war is generally a good thing.

[Vivolkha]

On the contrary, Arabs resorted time and time again to force to drive the Jews out, and have failed every single time. Jews were already there by 1947 and had a right to their land.

It wasn't "their" land, not all of the parts they claimed. The Jewish residents of Palestine had a right to something, but not to all of the land they claimed and all of the land they took.

Again, Arabs wanted to play "might makes right". As a result, they lost most of the territory to Israel, and these territorial loses are recognized by the international community as part of Israel.

Also, most of Israel's land under the partition plan (in fact, even today) was the Negev desert, which isn't very habitable.

[Insaanistan]

Sudanese people have already taken to the streets of their cities to protest the move. The Sudanese government said they cannot work out the details and finalize anything until they get approval from a Parliament they haven’t had time to appoint yet.

[Aureumterra III]

Lessening the threat of war is generally a good thing.

Not for people who want to remove Jews from Earth

[Punished UMN]

It wasn't "their" land, not all of the parts they claimed. The Jewish residents of Palestine had a right to something, but not to all of the land they claimed and all of the land they took.

Again, Arabs wanted to play "might makes right". As a result, they lost most of the territory to Israel, and these territorial loses are recognized by the international community as part of Israel.

Also, most of Israel's land under the partition plan (in fact, even today) was the Negev desert, which isn't very habitable.

They didn't want to play "might makes right", they didn't accept the partition plan because it allotted Israel large amounts of land that were majority-Arab and left Palestine bisected by the Jewish state. It wasn't a fair partition plan.

[Insaanistan]

Lessening the threat of war is generally a good thing.

Not for people who want to remove Jews from Earth

Anti-Zionism≠Kill all Jews.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Not for people who want to remove Jews from Earth

Anti-Zionism≠Kill all Jews.

Nuance? In NSG? Insaanistan, what are you doing?

Didn’t anyone teach you that criticizing any misdeeds Israel has done makes you an Anti-Semite?

[Insaanistan]

Anti-Zionism≠Kill all Jews.

Nuance? In NSG? Insaanistan, what are you doing?

Didn’t anyone teach you that criticizing any misdeeds Israel has done makes you an Anti-Semite?

I’m so sorry! I forgot. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go blow up a mosque because I said “Allahu Akbar.”

[US-SSR]

So what did Trump actually do to deserve credit for this beyond just insisting that he get credit for this?

Bribed a financially fragile government with foreign aid and removal from the state sponsors of terrorism list in return for nothingburger talks that probably won't lead to formal recognition. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-suda ... SKBN2742BE This and Hunter Biden's fraudulent emails is all they've got. 10 days.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Again, Arabs wanted to play "might makes right". As a result, they lost most of the territory to Israel, and these territorial loses are recognized by the international community as part of Israel.

Also, most of Israel's land under the partition plan (in fact, even today) was the Negev desert, which isn't very habitable.

They didn't want to play "might makes right", they didn't accept the partition plan because it allotted Israel large amounts of land that were majority-Arab and left Palestine bisected by the Jewish state. It wasn't a fair partition plan.

This, a hundred times this^

[Cruciland]

I am Keysar Aryelev, and Glorious Hong Kong is officially my favorite user on this forum.

[Aureumterra III]

Not for people who want to remove Jews from Earth

Anti-Zionism≠Kill all Jews.

True, but far too many Islamists use the anti-Israel mask because directly criticizing the Jews isn’t socially acceptable anymore

So instead of saying “The Jews secretly control the world,” Islamists say “Israel secretly controls the world”

[Insaanistan]

Anti-Zionism≠Kill all Jews.

True, but far too many Islamists use the anti-Israel mask because directly criticizing the Jews isn’t socially acceptable anymore

So instead of saying “The Jews secretly control the world,” Islamists say “Israel secretly controls the world”

Islamists? Yeah. Muslims and most Palestinians/Palestine supporters? No.

[Aclion]

This deal is not the diplomatic triumph that it superficially appears to be.

If it were a fully signed-off treaty between Israel and Sudan, it would be remarkable.

However, it faces a significant obstacle.

According to Sudan's acting foreign minister, the deal cannot be finalised until it's approved by Sudan's new Legislative Council.

The catch is that the new Legislative Council doesn't exist yet.

It may also depend on the US government agreeing to delist Sudan from the official list of states that sponsor international terrorism; while President Trump has agreed to this step, it needs Congressional approval.


So, smoke and mirrors aside, this is not a full final agreement by an Arab state to recognise Israel; it's an agreement in principle by an unelected transitional government to recognise Israel subject to the approval of the forthcoming election of a democratic legislature, and provided that the US government also takes steps to support the move.

Is it positive? Yes. Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it signed, sealed, and delivered? Absolutely not.

Can't speak for Susan's legislature but I really can't see congress blocking it. More likely Biden/Harris would just pocket it.

The big caveat for be is that while getting these deals is an accomplishment we'll need to follow up on them with more agreements bringing Israel and the US closer to Sudan. Otherwise the value to Sudan will fade and they'll go back to being hostile

[Insaanistan]

Sudan only agreed to this because Trump promised to lift sanctions and take them off the terror sponsors list, which they already shouldn’t be on anymore because they got rid of al-Bashir. The people especially really don’t like this, and are already protesting. If Sudan’s transitional government wants to save itself ANOTHER headache on top of all that’s already going on in Sudan before this decision, they’ll drop the deal.

[Insaanistan]

They should take their cultural and civilization as an example. Israel extracts ten times more scientific data from the Arab world

There's also the fact that Jews have won 20% of all Nobel Prizes, while Muslims have only managed to win 1.4%, most of them for the Peace Prize, despite vastly outnumbering Jews 100:1.

It’s a lot easier to focus on winning prizes when you aren’t living in a country constantly being bombed, torn apart by foreign funded terrorist groups, ruled by dictators appointed by foreign powers, impoverished by treaties your country was forced into by former colonizers, and living in fear of ethnic and tribal violence exacerbated by the colonialist strategy of pitting groups who already dislike each other against one another and giving them all guns.

[Aclion]

There's also the fact that Jews have won 20% of all Nobel Prizes, while Muslims have only managed to win 1.4%, most of them for the Peace Prize, despite vastly outnumbering Jews 100:1.

It’s a lot easier to focus on winning prizes when you aren’t living in a country constantly being bombed, torn apart by foreign funded terrorist groups, ruled by dictators appointed by foreign powers, impoverished by treaties your country was forced into by former colonizers, and living in fear of ethnic and tribal violence exacerbated by the colonialist strategy of pitting groups who already dislike each other against one another and giving them all guns.

Sounds like they should give those peace prizes back.