Trump to delay the election

[Purpelia]

You guys are missing one important thing. It's not enough for this system to be functional and secure on the hardware/software side. It also has to be accessible.
Voting is not just a privilege of 25 year old big city upper middle class people. Your great-grandma who's 92 and for whom a computer still refers to this thing also has to vote. Ditto the homeless guy living in the dumpster behind your local grocery store. And people living far away in very remote locations as well. Also the blind and the Amish and anyone else you can think off that would not take too kindly to such ideas.

Any system of voting you provide has to be fully and equally accessible for everyone. And it has to perform the same for everyone as well. If one groups votes are more accessible or more secure that's a problem.

Were talking about options for the younger generations, while still (at least for now) maintaining the on-site voting system. Having just one option is just foolhardy. Why not continue to allow for in-person voting, but also expand mail-in voting and open up digital voting?

Because the obvious and massive disparity in vote security and privacy that exists between paper ballots and the thing you are proposing. Features that make the votes unequal. And because frankly even the younger generation for the most part does not have the computer skills required to engage in anything remotely resembling actual computer security. As a software engineer I can tell you that what you think is security and what actually is security when engaging in data traffic be it online or mailing USB's are two very different things. And this is important because when it comes to security and anonymity these things must be understandable and examanable by any average voter. They can't just be a thing where the government says "Thrust us it's fine. We know you don't get it but you don't have to. Just click the magic button and it all just works. And we are totally not keeping tabs on who voted for whom and totally not cheating you." Which is exactly what would happen with any competently designed data security solution.

The point of voting is to make your government accountable to you. If your ability to do so safely, anonymously and ensure your vote will be fairly counted depends on what for you might as well be a magic box that is not a good thing.

[Godular]

I know Purpelia is making a relatively decent point about the digital voting, but I just gotta pop in with the fact that this phrase:

Thrust us it's fine.

seems vaguely obscene.

[Purpelia]

I know Purpelia is making a relatively decent point about the digital voting, but I just gotta pop in with the fact that this phrase:

Thrust us it's fine.

seems vaguely obscene.

Did I misspell Thrust and Trust again? I always get those two mixed up. Same as with newer and never. Can't ever get strait which is which. English is only like my 5th best language so that happens.

[Godular]

I know Purpelia is making a relatively decent point about the digital voting, but I just gotta pop in with the fact that this phrase:



seems vaguely obscene.

Did I misspell Thrust and Trust again? I always get those two mixed up. Same as with newer and never. Can't ever get strait which is which.

*looks at last sentence*

*not sure if serious*

[Purpelia]

Did I misspell Thrust and Trust again? I always get those two mixed up. Same as with newer and never. Can't ever get strait which is which.

*looks at last sentence*

*not sure if serious*

What's not to be serious about? I speak more than 5 languages and if I order them in order of which I know best, best to last, english is about #5.

[Shazbotdom]

I know Purpelia is making a relatively decent point about the digital voting, but I just gotta pop in with the fact that this phrase:



seems vaguely obscene.

Did I misspell Thrust and Trust again? I always get those two mixed up. Same as with newer and never. Can't ever get strait which is which. English is only like my 5th best language so that happens.

Insert Quagmire "Giggity" meme, here.

[Purpelia]

Did I misspell Thrust and Trust again? I always get those two mixed up. Same as with newer and never. Can't ever get strait which is which. English is only like my 5th best language so that happens.

Insert Quagmire "Giggity" meme, here.

Can we lay off my spelling errors and back to the point at hand?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So postal voting should be banned. Because it's not "equal" voting.

Postal voting has been a thing for decades. And absentee voting, that's not the same as voting in person either. So that should be banned too. Congratulations, you have just disenfranchised a bunch of people, but it's OK because the others all get "equal" voting.

[The Alma Mater]

So postal voting should be banned. Because it's not "equal" voting.

Postal voting has been a thing for decades. And absentee voting, that's not the same as voting in person either. So that should be banned too. Congratulations, you have just disenfranchised a bunch of people, but it's OK because the others all get "equal" voting.

The crux of the matter is ofc that the 30% or so of the US population that does not vote might start voting as well if it is made easier.
And they probably will not vote Republican.

Cannot have that part of the population get a voice now, can we? That would not be democratic.

[Purpelia]

So postal voting should be banned. Because it's not "equal" voting.

Postal voting has been a thing for decades. And absentee voting, that's not the same as voting in person either. So that should be banned too. Congratulations, you have just disenfranchised a bunch of people, but it's OK because the others all get "equal" voting.

Postal voting is at lets understandable to the average person. You fill out a piece of paper, put it in the mail and you're done. Sure, it's hilariously insecure compared to a paper ballot placed in an actual voting box. But at least there is no mysterious magic box involved that just works because the government tells you it does. How can you hold your government responsible by voting if your ability to vote literally hinges on trusting a magic device created by that government?

[Nevertopia]

So election comes around and Pelosi becomes the first female president because Trump rigs the election. What happens then?

[Shazbotdom]

So postal voting should be banned. Because it's not "equal" voting.

Postal voting has been a thing for decades. And absentee voting, that's not the same as voting in person either. So that should be banned too. Congratulations, you have just disenfranchised a bunch of people, but it's OK because the others all get "equal" voting.

The crux of the matter is ofc that the 30% or so of the US population that does not vote might start voting as well if it is made easier.
And they probably will not vote Republican.

Cannot have that part of the population get a voice now, can we? That would not be democratic.

Actually, the last election saw roughly 45% of the adult population that is registered to vote did not vote.

[Purpelia]

Honestly I think all nations should just have compulsory voting. As in you have to vote or else you get fined or worse.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So postal voting should be banned. Because it's not "equal" voting.

Postal voting has been a thing for decades. And absentee voting, that's not the same as voting in person either. So that should be banned too. Congratulations, you have just disenfranchised a bunch of people, but it's OK because the others all get "equal" voting.

Postal voting is at lets understandable to the average person. You fill out a piece of paper, put it in the mail and you're done. Sure, it's hilariously insecure compared to a paper ballot placed in an actual voting box.

OK, so you allow postal voting after all. Doesn't that destroy your claim that online voting would make it too easy for some people but not possible for others? The others would still have the option of postal voting (I said so in my first or second post on the subject), and the gap in effort between online voting and postal voting, is less than the gap in effort between postal voting and in-person voting.

You're prepared to accept "unequal" effort to vote, once it's pointed out to you that it's necessary and has been happening for years. So you should drop that part of your objection to online voting. It's inconsistent.

But at least there is no mysterious magic box involved that just works because the government tells you it does. How can you hold your government responsible by voting if your ability to vote literally hinges on trusting a magic device created by that government?

Open source. I guess you don't believe in open source ... few people who make their money from closed source do

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Honestly I think all nations should just have compulsory voting. As in you have to vote or else you get fined or worse.

We have it in Australia. I think it would be better, and in accord with voting being a responsibility and well as a right, if voters were simply paid.

To stop those crappy local officials from providing insufficient polling places, I would make it so the longer the voter has to wait in a queue, the more they'd be paid.

[The Alma Mater]

Honestly I think all nations should just have compulsory voting. As in you have to vote or else you get fined or worse.

Does mean that you have to make it possible. If not by allowing voting-from-a-distance by making voting booths accessible for all, even the immobile, people living in the middle of nowhere etc. Oh, and since the USA does not have an official language, the forms need to be provided in every language known to man, including Klingon.

Also means you will have to force employers to give their employees time (without loss of pay) to vote, that you will have to make an ID free to obtain (because demanding people to spend dollars to be able to vote or otherwise get fined for not voting would be iffy) etc. etc.

But yes. It would be better.

[Purpelia]

Does mean that you have to make it possible. If not by allowing voting-from-a-distance by making voting booths accessible for all, even the immobile, people living in the middle of nowhere etc. Oh, and since the USA does not have an official language, the forms need to be provided in every language known to man, including Klingon.

The former goes without saying. The later, well frankly you are just being crazy americans again.

Also means you will have to force employers to give their employees time (without loss of pay) to vote, that you will have to make an ID free to obtain (because demanding people to spend dollars to be able to vote or otherwise get fined for not voting would be iffy) etc. etc.

You are saying these things as if they were something that is not true by default in any civilized society. Don't actually tell me it isn't in america. O_o
Like can your employer legally deny you your right to vote? That's insane.

Seriously like every problem you have stems from the fact you do things differently from the civilized world.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Honestly I think all nations should just have compulsory voting. As in you have to vote or else you get fined or worse.

Does mean that you have to make it possible. If not by allowing voting-from-a-distance by making voting booths accessible for all, even the immobile, people living in the middle of nowhere etc. Oh, and since the USA does not have an official language, the forms need to be provided in every language known to man, including Klingon.

Please tell me the US does that already? If it's not a federal law it should be. In practice it would be English and Spanish printed properly, and if anyone needs some other language just make one with a printer.

Also means you will have to force employers to give their employees time (without loss of pay) to vote, that you will have to make an ID free to obtain (because demanding people to spend dollars to be able to vote or otherwise get fined for not voting would be iffy) etc. etc.

Not much you can do about employers "suggesting" the employee votes postal instead, tho.

But yes. It would be better.

It works in Australia, but I think only because it's been that way as long as anyone remembers. People feel guilty if they don't go, but they get a rude letter which you can make almost any reply to, to get out of paying the $20 or $50 fine (Federal or State).

I'd rather if the government paid me to vote, but I guess both is an option too.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Like can your employer legally deny you your right to vote? That's insane.

I used to think holding elections on a Saturday solved the problem. But a lot more people work weekends now (good for capitalism, bad for social cohesion) and I guess those people have to pre-poll vote or postal vote.

Some European countries have two election days (eg Friday and Saturday) and Austria I think has a whole week of them.

[Purpelia]

Like can your employer legally deny you your right to vote? That's insane.

I used to think holding elections on a Saturday solved the problem. But a lot more people work weekends now (good for capitalism, bad for social cohesion) and I guess those people have to pre-poll vote or postal vote.

Some European countries have two election days (eg Friday and Saturday) and Austria I think has a whole week of them.

A whole week sounds reasonable. Plus like elections should be run as close to 24/7 as is possible. Nobody works 24/7. You have to eventually have the free time to vote.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I used to think holding elections on a Saturday solved the problem. But a lot more people work weekends now (good for capitalism, bad for social cohesion) and I guess those people have to pre-poll vote or postal vote.

Some European countries have two election days (eg Friday and Saturday) and Austria I think has a whole week of them.

A whole week sounds reasonable. Plus like elections should be run as close to 24/7 as is possible. Nobody works 24/7. You have to eventually have the free time to vote.

There's also pre-poll, which is some of the regular polling booths open for a week or more before Election day. To use those might be a long trip for some though.

A week sounds expensive to me. But there I go again, thinking like an American.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

BTW, young Americans here should look into being a poll worker this election.
Seems there's going to be a shortage with the traditionally-old poll workers reluctant to expose themselves to covid.
Particularly if you've already had covid, consider it. You also get paid.

[Militarist Caxico]

Does mean that you have to make it possible. If not by allowing voting-from-a-distance by making voting booths accessible for all, even the immobile, people living in the middle of nowhere etc. Oh, and since the USA does not have an official language, the forms need to be provided in every language known to man, including Klingon.

The former goes without saying. The later, well frankly you are just being crazy americans again.

Also means you will have to force employers to give their employees time (without loss of pay) to vote, that you will have to make an ID free to obtain (because demanding people to spend dollars to be able to vote or otherwise get fined for not voting would be iffy) etc. etc.

You are saying these things as if they were something that is not true by default in any civilized society. Don't actually tell me it isn't in america. O_o
Like can your employer legally deny you your right to vote? That's insane.

Seriously like every problem you have stems from the fact you do things differently from the civilized world.

Ouch. My liberty loving, eagle loving, and Stars and Stripes loving heart just broke
My massive American ego couldn’t take that hit.

[The Alma Mater]

Like can your employer legally deny you your right to vote? That's insane.

In many countries employers do not have to give you paid time off (or time off at all) to vote.
When the nearest booth is over an hour drive away and you work two jobs, that in practice means you cannot vote.

Which ofc is exactly what certain people want.

[Salandriagado]

Well, with 50% accuracy.

33% accuracy. There are 3 apostrophes, 2 of them for plurals where -ies was correct.

Almost certainly a spell checker did those.

Velarland, what you have in the second paragraph is a "run-on sentence" aka text diarrhoea. If you really can't be arsed to end sentences with a period, perhaps just use a line break to make a new paragraph.

There were four apostrophes, unless I'm seeing things.