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US Dep of Defense Limits Flag Use

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Rusozak
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Founded: Jun 14, 2015
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:13 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Rusozak wrote:I get state flags and I think native American flags can stay. Otherwise, I never understood the need to let soldiers display another nation's flag on an American base. Unless it's like... wartime, and you're showing solidarity with allies like having a British flag in WW2.

Allied soldiers train at US bases, in which case I think their flags can be allowed.


Then sure. A soldier of a foreign nation serving at an American base should be allowed to display the flag of their nation (It's probably somewhere on the uniform anyways).
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:14 pm

Eahland wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:
  1. If some service members can't fly their "Southern pride" flag, then the rainbow flag should be banned as well, it's only fair.

To the best of my knowledge, the US military has never fought a long and bloody war against a treasonous insurrection flying the rainbow flag.

If "we fought a war against them" was even a remotely relevant reason, then half of NATO members' flags would be banned from display.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:16 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Rusozak wrote:I get state flags and I think native American flags can stay. Otherwise, I never understood the need to let soldiers display another nation's flag on an American base. Unless it's like... wartime, and you're showing solidarity with allies like having a British flag in WW2.

Allied soldiers train at US bases, in which case I think their flags can be allowed.

The directive specifically allows "Flags of other countries, for which the United States is an ally or partner, or for official protocol purposes".
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:04 pm

Eahland wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:
  1. If some service members can't fly their "Southern pride" flag, then the rainbow flag should be banned as well, it's only fair.

To the best of my knowledge, the US military has never fought a long and bloody war against a treasonous insurrection flying the rainbow flag.


Not yet anyway.
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Jedi Council
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Anarchy

Postby Jedi Council » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:13 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Eahland wrote:To the best of my knowledge, the US military has never fought a long and bloody war against a treasonous insurrection flying the rainbow flag.

If "we fought a war against them" was even a remotely relevant reason, then half of NATO members' flags would be banned from display.


False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:19 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:“The white man will try to satisfy us with symbolic victories rather than economic equity and real justice”
-Malcolm X

It's worth noting that this quote doesn't exactly fit, but it comes pretty close. I guess it's cool that they can't fly the Confederate flag, but that's not gonna do anything to solve the underlying problem. This is a worthless gesture to the current tensions, and the protests must not let up until true justice and accountability are achieved.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:20 pm

Jedi Council wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:If "we fought a war against them" was even a remotely relevant reason, then half of NATO members' flags would be banned from display.


False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.


The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:22 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
  1. Blanket ban is a bit of an overreaction, they won't even let you show support for your favorite sports teams for crying out loud.
  2. Flags of recognized Indian tribes should be allowed.
  3. If some service members can't fly their "Southern pride" flag, then the rainbow flag should be banned as well, it's only fair.

The rainbow flag is banned
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Jedi Council
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Anarchy

Postby Jedi Council » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:23 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.


The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


I wont address whatever the second part of what you say because its incomprehensible, but regarding the first;

The Confederates were literal traitors. They wanted to break up the United States, and waged a war to do so. They fought for the right to ensure human beings could be treated like property.

The South today, while making up the same geographic area as the CSA, is not actively killing fellow citizens, keeping slaves, or trying to blow up the Union.

So I am not sure what you are trying to prove here.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:27 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.


The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.

Southern pride my ass. This southerner, who’s family fought for the CSA; though I also had relatives who fought with Sherman, firmly believes the US military has no business allowing the flag of traitors to be flown anywhere.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
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Greed and Death
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:31 pm

Eahland wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:
  1. If some service members can't fly their "Southern pride" flag, then the rainbow flag should be banned as well, it's only fair.

To the best of my knowledge, the US military has never fought a long and bloody war against a treasonous insurrection flying the rainbow flag.


The reason for both getting banned is the first amendment. The soldiers could in theory be ordered not to fly a specif flag but their family cannot be. Families often live in on base housing and even if they do not they will have access to on base facilities. The rule being written as a list of allowed flags limits the likelihood of the rule being tossed out on free speech grounds because then it can be viewed as content neutral in that only the Us flag, military affiliated flags ( such as MIA/POW), state flags, and allied nations may be flown. If you say no X flag then it is not content neutral and would be subject to strict scrutiny and the government would likely not win.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:42 pm

Jedi Council wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


I wont address whatever the second part of what you say because its incomprehensible, but regarding the first;

The Confederates were literal traitors. They wanted to break up the United States, and waged a war to do so. They fought for the right to ensure human beings could be treated like property.

The South today, while making up the same geographic area as the CSA, is not actively killing fellow citizens, keeping slaves, or trying to blow up the Union.

So I am not sure what you are trying to prove here.


You're ignoring the meat of the post then.

What I'm saying is that the hate for the confederate flag, which isn't actually the confederate flag but a post-civil war alteration of a part of a confederate flag, isn't grounded in any actual moral stance or standing. It's an expression of hatred seeking an excuse to be vented.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:58 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.


The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


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Organized States
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Organized States » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:59 pm

Finally.

The Two Jerseys wrote:
  1. Blanket ban is a bit of an overreaction, they won't even let you show support for your favorite sports teams for crying out loud.
  2. Flags of recognized Indian tribes should be allowed.
  3. If some service members can't fly their "Southern pride" flag, then the rainbow flag should be banned as well, it's only fair.

1) Blanket Bans are pretty common throughout DoD and considering the existence of flags like those of the previous iteration of the Washington Football Team, it's almost entirely fair that we get rid of those of sports teams as well. They're unprofessional.
2) This isn't a problem for most of us actually interpreting and executing the policy on the ground.
3) Pride flags are technically banned under this policy.
Last edited by Organized States on Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:43 pm

Jedi Council wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


I wont address whatever the second part of what you say because its incomprehensible, but regarding the first;

The Confederates were literal traitors. They wanted to break up the United States, and waged a war to do so. They fought for the right to ensure human beings could be treated like property.

So just like the British did in 1812-14...
The South today, while making up the same geographic area as the CSA, is not actively killing fellow citizens, keeping slaves, or trying to blow up the Union.

So I am not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Neither are the British today, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.
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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:15 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
I wont address whatever the second part of what you say because its incomprehensible, but regarding the first;

The Confederates were literal traitors. They wanted to break up the United States, and waged a war to do so. They fought for the right to ensure human beings could be treated like property.

The South today, while making up the same geographic area as the CSA, is not actively killing fellow citizens, keeping slaves, or trying to blow up the Union.

So I am not sure what you are trying to prove here.


You're ignoring the meat of the post then.

What I'm saying is that the hate for the confederate flag, which isn't actually the confederate flag but a post-civil war alteration of a part of a confederate flag, isn't grounded in any actual moral stance or standing. It's an expression of hatred seeking an excuse to be vented.

That's a lot of projection there.

I've told you this before, and you'll certainly ignore it again, because facts are inconvenient to your narrative, but while the blue saltire on red with the white stars, which is commonly called the Confederate flag, was never a "national" flag of the uprising, it was, in actual fact, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which was the primary combat formation of the Confederacy, and so the flag actually flown in battle by Lee's army of traitors. It was used from 1861 until Lee's surrender in 1865 (and has continued in use to this day as a symbol of racism), and so outlasted any of the various short-lived Confederate "national" flags. It's not "the" Confederate flag, but there isn't any "the" Confederate flag. It is one of several Confederate flags, the one that actually flew above many of the traitors who were actually shooting at American soldiers, and it is certainly the most widely recognized symbol of the Confederacy.
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The Emerald Legion
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:26 pm

Eahland wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
You're ignoring the meat of the post then.

What I'm saying is that the hate for the confederate flag, which isn't actually the confederate flag but a post-civil war alteration of a part of a confederate flag, isn't grounded in any actual moral stance or standing. It's an expression of hatred seeking an excuse to be vented.

That's a lot of projection there.

I've told you this before, and you'll certainly ignore it again, because facts are inconvenient to your narrative, but while the blue saltire on red with the white stars, which is commonly called the Confederate flag, was never a "national" flag of the uprising, it was, in actual fact, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which was the primary combat formation of the Confederacy, and so the flag actually flown in battle by Lee's army of traitors. It was used from 1861 until Lee's surrender in 1865 (and has continued in use to this day as a symbol of racism), and so outlasted any of the various short-lived Confederate "national" flags. It's not "the" Confederate flag, but there isn't any "the" Confederate flag. It is one of several Confederate flags, the one that actually flew above many of the traitors who were actually shooting at American soldiers, and it is certainly the most widely recognized symbol of the Confederacy.


Not any projection. The modern left is a paper-cut away from a hate movement in bulk, and crosses that line in many places. It is the most thorough refutation of popper's paradox imaginable.

I find it weird that you say I ignore that, when by and large I'm the one who usually brings that up. Though the actual battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was square it wasn't rectangular. Hence, Alteration.
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Anti Defense League
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Ex-Nation

Postby Anti Defense League » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:30 pm

Eahland wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
You're ignoring the meat of the post then.

What I'm saying is that the hate for the confederate flag, which isn't actually the confederate flag but a post-civil war alteration of a part of a confederate flag, isn't grounded in any actual moral stance or standing. It's an expression of hatred seeking an excuse to be vented.

That's a lot of projection there.

I've told you this before, and you'll certainly ignore it again, because facts are inconvenient to your narrative, but while the blue saltire on red with the white stars, which is commonly called the Confederate flag, was never a "national" flag of the uprising, it was, in actual fact, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which was the primary combat formation of the Confederacy, and so the flag actually flown in battle by Lee's army of traitors. It was used from 1861 until Lee's surrender in 1865 (and has continued in use to this day as a symbol of racism), and so outlasted any of the various short-lived Confederate "national" flags. It's not "the" Confederate flag, but there isn't any "the" Confederate flag. It is one of several Confederate flags, the one that actually flew above many of the traitors who were actually shooting at American soldiers, and it is certainly the most widely recognized symbol of the Confederacy.


My only wish is said "traitors" had got the chance to shoot at more American soldiers; Robert Lewis Dabney was right.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:48 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


Remind me not to smoke what you're smoking.


I don't smoke, or drink alcohol, or do drugs.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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Rusozak
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Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:58 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
False equivalency.

The Confederacy was a cabal of traitors and slaves, people who wanted to end the Union. Ergo, the US military should not support overt symbols which support them.

Germany was a terrible enemy 80 years ago, but is now a close friend and ally, which means their flag is fine.

It's not that hard.


The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


The present day South is about as much the Confederacy as modern day Germany is Nazi Germany. They lost. Their nation was dismantled and rebuilt back under U.S. control. And regardless of the debate regarding what the Confederates stood for, the fact is the stars and bars have since been appropriated as a symbol of white nationalism and racism. Not only is it a banner of an enemy of the United States. It's used today by hate groups, some of which have been labeled terrorists. So yes, the hate for confederate symbolism is justified, as is banning it from federal property.
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Anti Defense League
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Ex-Nation

Postby Anti Defense League » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:08 pm

Rusozak wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Confederacy is just the south now and we literally let them vote in our elections and they make up more than half of our military.

The in-fashion bitching about the 'Confederate' flag is literally nothing more than the Democrats attempts to foment hate, in order to divide and build up steam for their own attempt to in the future emulate the very confederacy they so claim to hate.


The present day South is about as much the Confederacy as modern day Germany is Nazi Germany. They lost. Their nation was dismantled and rebuilt back under U.S. control. And regardless of the debate regarding what the Confederates stood for, the fact is the stars and bars have since been appropriated as a symbol of white nationalism and racism. Not only is it a banner of an enemy of the United States. It's used today by hate groups, some of which have been labeled terrorists. So yes, the hate for confederate symbolism is justified, as is banning it from federal property.


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Jedi Council
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Postby Jedi Council » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:53 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Jedi Council wrote:
I wont address whatever the second part of what you say because its incomprehensible, but regarding the first;

The Confederates were literal traitors. They wanted to break up the United States, and waged a war to do so. They fought for the right to ensure human beings could be treated like property.

So just like the British did in 1812-14...
The South today, while making up the same geographic area as the CSA, is not actively killing fellow citizens, keeping slaves, or trying to blow up the Union.

So I am not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Neither are the British today, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.


Oh lord, are you really trying to use the War of 1812 as evidence the British wanted to reconquer America? And to ensure slavery remained? Because if so I suggest you do some more research because both of those claims are entirely false.

Yes, the British have fought wars with the Americans, just like the Germans. But for the last few generations, they have been America's staunchest allies.

The Confederates are defeated traitors not merely enemies or rivals. They wanted to keep an entire race in bondage. That was their raison d'etre. Why would any well adjusted person, anyone who claims to be a patriot, or anyone who values equality fly any flag associated with the Confederacy?
Last edited by Jedi Council on Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jedi Council » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:55 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Eahland wrote:That's a lot of projection there.

I've told you this before, and you'll certainly ignore it again, because facts are inconvenient to your narrative, but while the blue saltire on red with the white stars, which is commonly called the Confederate flag, was never a "national" flag of the uprising, it was, in actual fact, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which was the primary combat formation of the Confederacy, and so the flag actually flown in battle by Lee's army of traitors. It was used from 1861 until Lee's surrender in 1865 (and has continued in use to this day as a symbol of racism), and so outlasted any of the various short-lived Confederate "national" flags. It's not "the" Confederate flag, but there isn't any "the" Confederate flag. It is one of several Confederate flags, the one that actually flew above many of the traitors who were actually shooting at American soldiers, and it is certainly the most widely recognized symbol of the Confederacy.


Not any projection. The modern left is a paper-cut away from a hate movement in bulk, and crosses that line in many places. It is the most thorough refutation of popper's paradox imaginable.

I find it weird that you say I ignore that, when by and large I'm the one who usually brings that up. Though the actual battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was square it wasn't rectangular. Hence, Alteration.


Now that's just pedantic.

If someone flew an "altered" Nazi battle flag, no one would step back and say "oh, they put their own twist on it, how nice. Totally nothing to see here."
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:55 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Not any projection. The modern left is a paper-cut away from a hate movement in bulk, and crosses that line in many places. It is the most thorough refutation of popper's paradox imaginable.


I might be biased, but that sounds a lot like projection to me.
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:24 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
Rusozak wrote:
The present day South is about as much the Confederacy as modern day Germany is Nazi Germany. They lost. Their nation was dismantled and rebuilt back under U.S. control. And regardless of the debate regarding what the Confederates stood for, the fact is the stars and bars have since been appropriated as a symbol of white nationalism and racism. Not only is it a banner of an enemy of the United States. It's used today by hate groups, some of which have been labeled terrorists. So yes, the hate for confederate symbolism is justified, as is banning it from federal property.


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