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by The Cazistan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:43 pm
by VlaRiSsiA » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:49 pm
tl;dr - after nuclear war, corrupt oligarchical hellhole emerges. ogre leads revolution, kills oligarchs after civil war, improves quality of life with progressive social policies and industrialization. couple foreign invasions, assassination attempts, personal losses, and rebellions later, ogre goes psychotic and kills anyone he’s sus of. then a fascist midget invades and kills third of the population, ogre manages to defeat him but goes completely bonkers.
now we got a hyper-totalitarian hyper-militaristic industrial hive-mind quasi-slave state that the ogre 70 years ago would be horrified at
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:50 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:Better training would probably help, as would other incentives for higher hiring standards. However, these tragedies are not just born from lack of training and subpar screening of aspiring cops. They're also born from within the officers and authorities already in those departments, and in the governments that fund and enable them. There are deep-seated problems with the siege mentality taught to police officers by their own leaders as well as by some of those who train them. There are problems with accountability, not just within the police departments themselves, but also when it comes to criminal prosecutions of police officers. There are also problems with the criminal justice system as a whole, in terms of both legislation and unwritten policies. A lot of the laws that police are used to enforce are unjust. A lot of unwritten policies implemented by police departments are motivated by reasons that have nothing to do with protecting their communities (see: civil asset forfeiture and the over-reliance on overzealous enforcement of fines).
You wouldn't just need better cops, if you wanted to keep the police as an institution. You would need to get rid of a shit ton of people and policies and cultural baggage.
A seige mentality? Now what might cause that? Could it be that police departments are demoralized and under constant attack from both politicians and our corporate media?
You aren't going to make them feel less under attack by demonizing and attacking them as much as possible. Honestly, they're completely justified in feeling under attack.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:53 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:Who knew copaganda would one day join forces with gun control propaganda?
I'm Pro-2nd Amendment. But if you're going to have a heavily-armed civilian population then you also need to accept the fact that cops who police them are gonna wanna be heavily-armed as well.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:10 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:I'm sure that's many cops' excuse, but there's no hiding the "motivational speakers" and lecturers that cops resort to, many of whom quite explicitly teach cops to think of themselves as being infallible murder machines.
The "attack" from politicians, the media and the general public came after, not before, this siege mentality manifested. Cops have enjoyed decades of copaganda and political support. Entire generations were raised on media that glorified the "tough on crime" philosophy, while their elected representatives voted for "tough on crime" laws which set police loose on entire communities.
Hate towards police has been building for years.
The demoralizing hostility cops face now? They earned it. It didn't come ex nihilo.
How? Most police shootings are justified, and there is zero actual evidence cops are gunning down black men in the streets.
How does a cop I'm Nebraska deserve hate for something that happened in Minneapolis?
You aren't going to make them feel less under attack by demonizing and attacking them as much as possible. Honestly, they're completely justified in feeling under attack.
No, they're not. If they can't take criticism from the public, who they serve... if they feel "under attack", threatened by public criticism... then they're clearly too sensitive a bunch to be trusted with the safety of the public.
I mean, for heaven's sake, politicians get a lot more hate that police officers do. If a bunch of politicians threw a tantrum and started killing their own voters because of how sad and anxious the criticism they get makes them, would you ask voters to be kinder to politicians?
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Kowani » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:12 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:I'm sure that's many cops' excuse, but there's no hiding the "motivational speakers" and lecturers that cops resort to, many of whom quite explicitly teach cops to think of themselves as being infallible murder machines.
The "attack" from politicians, the media and the general public came after, not before, this siege mentality manifested. Cops have enjoyed decades of copaganda and political support. Entire generations were raised on media that glorified the "tough on crime" philosophy, while their elected representatives voted for "tough on crime" laws which set police loose on entire communities.
Hate towards police has been building for years.
The demoralizing hostility cops face now? They earned it. It didn't come ex nihilo.
How? Most police shootings are justified,
How does a cop I'm Nebraska deserve hate for something that happened in Minneapolis?
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:13 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:I don't know, I feel like having a heavily armed civilian population could also be used as a reason to think the opposite. A heavily armed civilian population could be presumed to be better equipped to act in self-defense, so why have regular cops armed all the time, unless it's for something really, really serious?
Because having untrained civilians enforce the law leads to even more innocent people being killed.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by The Chuck » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:22 pm
In-Character Advertisement Space:
The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments, Lauzanexport CDT, and
Silverport Dockyards Ltd.
by The Cazistan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:26 pm
by Farnhamia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:32 pm
The Cazistan wrote:So what's plan B if defunding cops creates anarchy?
Do away with the state that allowed it to happen and crackdown on lolbertarians and anarkiddies
by The Cazistan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:35 pm
by Farnhamia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 pm
by The Cazistan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:40 pm
Farnhamia wrote:The Cazistan wrote:could you define "trolling" for me?
Read the Rules. "Lolbertarians" has been repeated ruled as trolling, posting in such a way as to evoke an angry response from others.
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:54 pm
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:Liriena wrote:But not in the political or cultural mainstream. Obama opposed BLM, and Clinton and Biden both played a main role in the implementation of pro-cop "tough on crime" policies. Mainstream media continues to produce a wide variety of shows and news stories sympathetic to cops. You see story after story celebrating cops for acts of charity, or movies glorifying cops as baddass heroes, or series dedicated to the quasi-infallibility of cops' instincts when it comes to catching bad guys. Not to mention the reality TV shows.
Stopped reading there. You can't be serious. Obama heavily sympathized with them during his term.
Rugged Ruggedists wrote:"Most police shootings are justified", says the criminal justice system whose legitimacy is tightly intertwined with the legitimacy of the police.
It's a statistical fact.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1UI017Instead, the authors found variances between local crime rates played a key role in predicting who was most likely to be killed by police.
In areas with high rates of violent crime by blacks, police were more than three times more likely to shoot dead a black person than a white person, the study found.
Political or threat explanations for the state's use of internal violence suggest that killings committed by the police should be greatest in stratified jurisdictions with more minorities. Additional political effects such as race of the city's mayor or reform political arrangements are examined. The level of interpersonal violence the police encounter and other problems in departmental environments should account for these killing rates as well. Tobit analyses of 170 cities show that racial inequality explains police killings. Interpersonal violence measured by the murder rate also accounts for this use of lethal force. Separate analyses of police killings of blacks show that cities with more blacks and a recent growth in the black population have higher police killing rates of blacks, but the presence of a black mayor reduces these killings. Such findings support latent and direct political explanations for the internal use of lethal force to preserve order.
Crime causes these shootings, not racism.
If you want change then you need to look toward politicians, not cops.
Cops aren't social engineers. Their job is to enforce the law. Nothing more, nothing less.
I feel as though this is sealioning rather than an actual attempt to get an answer.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Liriena » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:58 pm
Aclion wrote:The second amendment is plan B.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:15 pm
by Picairn » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:50 pm
by Rightonrighton » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:55 pm
by Socialist States of Ludistan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:57 pm
by Stellar Colonies » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:08 am
Socialist States of Ludistan wrote:Make the US a colony again.
Floofybit wrote:Your desired society should be one where you are submissive and controlled
Techocracy101010 wrote:If she goes on a rampage those saggy wonders are as deadly as nunchucks
Parmistan wrote:It's not ALWAYS acceptable when we do it, but it's MORE acceptable when we do it.
Theodorable wrote:Jihad will win.
Distruzio wrote:All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.
Khardsland wrote:Terrorism in its original definition is a good thing.
San Lumen wrote:If he wins Harris should tear up his ballots on the house floor causing a constitutional crisis.
I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.
North Californian.
Stellar Colonies is a loose galactic confederacy.
The Confederacy & the WA.
Add 1200 years.
by North German Realm » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:13 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Rojava Free State » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:38 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Chan Island » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:40 am
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:So we're hearing a lot of talk about defunding police and putting that money into social services instead. The idea, presumably, is that if these "social services" could somehow address every other possible motive for committing crime in the first place, we wouldn't need as much policing.
Here's the problem with that proposal... since when was anyone any good at predicting anyone else's motives for what they do?
No, really. I recall 2016, when the notion that respondents who claimed they'd vote Clinton if she were the candidate were lying through their teeth were met with "why would they lie"? Doesn't matter. They did. People do what they do for reasons neither you nor I nor the so-called "experts" who got it wrong could ever hope to comperehend. The delusion that if you do not anticipate their motives, such motives cannot exist, feels like a false dichotomy fit to rival "God of the gaps."
So now proposals to defund the police invoke the delusion that they have every possible motive for crime figured out; and they want us to, based on this tenuous reasoning, weaken the one institution known to hold crime back.
My question to them is; what if you're wrong? What is your plan B, if people have reasons for committing crimes that you fail to anticipate, predict, or comprehend, and these reasons are all unleashed? Is a return to policing as it was before possible, or would the change, or at least some of the effects thereof, be permanent? Is there a third option you could jump to from there, that might be relatively safer? If so, what is it?
My alternative? If we think we know why crime happens, then rather than defunding the police, why not address those supposed motives first, and then weaken police presence very slowly and gradually so if it works out badly we can reverse the trend before it's too late?
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Chan Island » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:44 am
Picairn wrote:People are arguing whether defunding the police is a good idea and I'm sitting here, like: How about we reform the entire structure of police training, equipment and social programs altogether?
This is an institutional problem, not a budgetary one. The entire police structure right now is a leftover legacy of the 80s' War on Drugs. It's time we bring the police into the 21st century.
But of course, that will cost more, not less.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
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