Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVII: The Snark Enlightenment

[Nea Byzantia]

You know this how?

Because the guy who put Peter I on the throne orchestrated the assassination and supervised numerous Slavic terrorist cells throughout the Balkans.

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

[Salus Maior]

Conrad von Hotzendorf was in charge of the Imperial military and was what we would call a major warhawk with a lot of influence in the Austrian government.

Indy did my boy wrong, most competent general of the war.

That doesn't make him a good man, or not responsible for the opening of the war in the first place.

My boy Karl was right to dismiss him.

[Kowani]

Because the guy who put Peter I on the throne orchestrated the assassination and supervised numerous Slavic terrorist cells throughout the Balkans.

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

What do you want, a signed document?

[North German Realm]

What is that supposed to mean? Why would Germany intentionally put themselves in a shittier strategic position? It just makes no sense.

And again, didn't France declare war on Germany?

No, France did not declare war on Germany. France withdrew its army from the German border as an expression of their desire for peace and assured the Germans that they would not aid Russia in an offensive war.

Germany only had plans for an offensive two-front war, meaning that once total mobilization had begun, it was too late to avert the von-Schlieffen Plan. Wilhelm II ordered that France not be invaded, to which his generals responded "That is not possible."

Honestly the problem was that without a complete and full assurance that France wouldn't get involved, Germany kinda had to declare war on France first. Provided it wanted to defeat Russia, Germany would need to deploy all of its forces to the Eastern Front (given how larger the Russian possible pool of reserves and recruits was, this was an inevitability). Without the assurance that nothing would happen in the west (which couldn't be possible without a prior capitulation of France), this would mean their borders with their most important rival on land would be almost completely unguarded.

[Nea Byzantia]

Germany only had plans for an offensive two-front war, meaning that once total mobilization had begun, it was too late to avert the von-Schlieffen Plan. Wilhelm II ordered that France not be invaded, to which his generals responded "That is not possible."

But he's the Kaiser. Why didn't he just fire the dumbass who said that, and call off the invasion? How could it have been "too late"?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Germany only had plans for an offensive two-front war, meaning that once total mobilization had begun, it was too late to avert the von-Schlieffen Plan. Wilhelm II ordered that France not be invaded, to which his generals responded "That is not possible."

But he's the Kaiser. Why didn't he just fire the dumbass who said that, and call off the invasion? How could it have been "too late"?

Because the German military were the power behind the throne, so to speak, by the end of the war, Germany was effectively ruled by a military junta.

[North German Realm]

Germany only had plans for an offensive two-front war, meaning that once total mobilization had begun, it was too late to avert the von-Schlieffen Plan. Wilhelm II ordered that France not be invaded, to which his generals responded "That is not possible."

But he's the Kaiser. Why didn't he just fire the dumbass who said that, and call off the invasion? How could it have been "too late"?

Army with a State, my friend. Army with a State.

[Nea Byzantia]

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

What do you want?

Anything more than "it is alleged" or "it is known" will do.

[Nea Byzantia]

But he's the Kaiser. Why didn't he just fire the dumbass who said that, and call off the invasion? How could it have been "too late"?

Because the German military were the power behind the throne, so to speak, by the end of the war, Germany was effectively ruled by a military junta.

What about at the beginning?

[Old Tyrannia]

Covering the Crusades, Israel-Palestine conflict and who is to blame for the First World War all in one evening? We're certainly getting through the controversial topics today.

Personally, I'd say that whilst Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Serbia all bear some blame for escalating the conflict when they each had the opportunity to de-escalate the situation at some point and opted not to do so, ultimate blame has to rest on Austria-Hungary, as they were the ones who actually declared war on Serbia despite the Serbs agreeing to almost all of the demands in the July Ultimatum. It's worth noting that Emperor Franz Josef himself was reluctant to go to war, and only did so under the advice of his ministers.

[Nea Byzantia]

Covering the Crusades, Israel-Palestine conflict and who is to blame for the First World War all in one evening? We're certainly getting through the controversial topics today.

Personally, I'd say that whilst Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Serbia all bear some blame for escalating the conflict when they each had the opportunity to de-escalate the situation at some point and opted not to do so, ultimate blame has to rest on Austria-Hungary, as they were the ones who actually declared war on Serbia despite the Serbs agreeing to almost all of the demands in the July Ultimatum. It's worth noting that Emperor Franz Josef himself was reluctant to go to war, and only did so under the advice of his ministers.

And what about Britain? They get a free pass, of course.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Because the German military were the power behind the throne, so to speak, by the end of the war, Germany was effectively ruled by a military junta.

What about at the beginning?

They were powerful enough to order the invasion of Belgium, Luxembourg, and France without him.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Covering the Crusades, Israel-Palestine conflict and who is to blame for the First World War all in one evening? We're certainly getting through the controversial topics today.

Personally, I'd say that whilst Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Serbia all bear some blame for escalating the conflict when they each had the opportunity to de-escalate the situation at some point and opted not to do so, ultimate blame has to rest on Austria-Hungary, as they were the ones who actually declared war on Serbia despite the Serbs agreeing to almost all of the demands in the July Ultimatum. It's worth noting that Emperor Franz Josef himself was reluctant to go to war, and only did so under the advice of his ministers.

And what about Britain? They get a free pass, of course.

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong. Germany shouldn't get a free pass for invading 3 neutral countries unprovoked.

[North German Realm]

Covering the Crusades, Israel-Palestine conflict and who is to blame for the First World War all in one evening? We're certainly getting through the controversial topics today.

Personally, I'd say that whilst Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Serbia all bear some blame for escalating the conflict when they each had the opportunity to de-escalate the situation at some point and opted not to do so, ultimate blame has to rest on Austria-Hungary, as they were the ones who actually declared war on Serbia despite the Serbs agreeing to almost all of the demands in the July Ultimatum. It's worth noting that Emperor Franz Josef himself was reluctant to go to war, and only did so under the advice of his ministers.

And what about Britain? They get a free pass, of course.

The entirety of the attempt to halt the progress of the war in the July Crisis was concentrated in the United Kingdom. Well, other than the Willy-Nicky letters, I guess.

[Fahran]

Error. Please disregard.

[Fahran]

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijević

It's literally the reason history remembers the man.

"It was a false flag" is a baseless conspiracy theory, especially when we have an organization dominated by Bosnian Serbs with ties to Serbian military brass. As for motivations, Franz Ferdinand's conciliatory attitude towards his future Slavic subjects likely would have diminished the appeal of separatist and nationalist movements, thus undermining the Pan-Slavic objective of creating what would become the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The objective was to encourage a crackdown by Vienna and, as a result, an uprising by Bosnian Serbs and other Slavs. It was also an example of propaganda of the deed, lashing out against the some vestige of the hated Austria-Hungarian oppressor.

[Nea Byzantia]

And what about Britain? They get a free pass, of course.

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong.

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

[Old Tyrannia]

And what about Britain? They get a free pass, of course.

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong. Germany shouldn't get a free pass for invading 3 neutral countries unprovoked.

But Britain is guilty of the worst crime of all; being the subject of Nea Byzantia's hate boner.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong.

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

Britain literally didn't do any of those things. Britain wasn't a grand master planner that started the war, they intervened when Germany violated the Treaty of London that established Belgium's independence and which all three countries were bound by treaty to defend.

[Salus Maior]

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijević

It's literally the reason history remembers the man.

"It was a false flag" is a baseless conspiracy theory, especially when we have an organization dominated by Bosnian Serbs with ties to Serbian military brass. As for motivations, Franz Ferdinand's conciliatory attitude towards his future Slavic subjects likely would have diminished the appeal of separatist and nationalist movements, thus undermining the Pan-Slavic objective of creating what would become the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The objective was to encourage a crackdown by Vienna and, as a result, an uprising by Bosnian Serbs and other Slavs. It was also an example of propaganda of the deed, lashing out against the some vestige of the hated Austria-Hungarian oppressor.

Is this something that's only turned up after the war?

Because from what I've read, Austro-Hungarian investigations into the connection between the assassination and the Serbian government didn't turn up anything.

[North German Realm]

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong.

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

And you accuse me of conspiracy. Oh wow.

[Nea Byzantia]

But how do you know he was behind that one? And why would he do such an incredibly stupid thing? One can presume his previous coups and actions were reasonable and successful for him to be repeating them, right?

Again, what if the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a false flag operation, designed to blame the Serbs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijević

It's literally the reason history remembers the man.

"It was a false flag" is a baseless conspiracy theory, especially when we have an organization dominated by Bosnian Serbs with ties to Serbian military brass. As for motivations, Franz Ferdinand's conciliatory attitude towards his future Slavic subjects likely would have diminished the appeal of separatist and nationalist movements, thus undermining the Pan-Slavic objective of creating what would become the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The objective was to encourage a crackdown by Vienna and, as a result, an uprising by Bosnian Serbs and other Slavs. It was also an example of propaganda of the deed, lashing out against the some vestige of the hated Austria-Hungarian oppressor.

But if he was conciliatory, maybe he would've granted them more autonomy which would've eventually led to independence down the road. It doesn't make sense - from the Serbian point of view - to kill such a man; especially if his Slavic sympathies could be useful to you in the future. It seems to me more like something an outside Party interested in cooking up a War, would do.

[Kowani]

Britain literally didn't do anything wrong.

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

“Britain assassinated Franz Ferdinand.”

That’s one I haven’t heard before.

[Nea Byzantia]

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

And you accuse me of conspiracy. Oh wow.

When did I accuse you of conspiracy?

[Nea Byzantia]

What about assassinating Franz Ferdinand, pinning it on the Serbs to get a war going between the Russians and Germans? Sure they got their hands dirty themselves, but so what, the point of the War was to weaken and destabilize Russia and Germany. Britain was certainly the biggest beneficiary of the War.

“Britain assassinated Franz Ferdinand.”

That’s one I haven’t heard before.

They were by far the biggest beneficiaries. They had the means and they had the motive.