by Gospel Power » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:31 am
by Asherahan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:03 am
by Aclion » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:06 am
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:09 am
by Horde » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:11 am
Gospel Power wrote:I know only 1 thing:
The war between left and right was never so great, it is a war for a national destiny, for the entire world, the world will never look the same, we all live in a unique time!.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:13 am
Horde wrote:Gospel Power wrote:I know only 1 thing:
The war between left and right was never so great, it is a war for a national destiny, for the entire world, the world will never look the same, we all live in a unique time!.
Maybe in your short lifespan... This is hyperbole of the highest order.
You only need to look at the era of the '30s and '40s to see this not to be true.
Our time is not so unique. It has all happened before, it will all happen again.
The rise of the internet is what is unique, and tends to blow everything out of proportion.
by Baltenstein » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:13 am
Asherahan wrote:Yeah I think we greeks have the Spaniards beat on the whole getting flooded by immigrants situation.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:22 am
by Horde » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:22 am
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:23 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Horde wrote:
Maybe in your short lifespan... This is hyperbole of the highest order.
You only need to look at the era of the '30s and '40s to see this not to be true.
Our time is not so unique. It has all happened before, it will all happen again.
The rise of the internet is what is unique, and tends to blow everything out of proportion.
WWII wasn't fought between Left and Right, it was a shaky alliance between Left and Right to put down Fascism and Nazism.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:28 am
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
You might want to read some history. There were plenty of wars between left and right ideologies that where actually wars.
Real actual wars.
The alt right vs antifa riots are nothing compared to historical political massacres terms of body count.
This isn't a war it's two idiot groups yelling at each other both IRL and online.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:29 am
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
WWII wasn't fought between Left and Right, it was a shaky alliance between Left and Right to put down Fascism and Nazism.
Yes it was. It was capitalism and communism fighting the far right of Nazism.
Center left center right and extreme left fighting extreme right.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:31 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:You might want to read some history. There were plenty of wars between left and right ideologies that where actually wars.
Real actual wars.
The alt right vs antifa riots are nothing compared to historical political massacres terms of body count.
This isn't a war it's two idiot groups yelling at each other both IRL and online.
Again, the Left and Right were on the same side for WWII. Night of the Long Knives was between Nazis and the Left.
The Civil War was also not between Left and Right; it was caused primarily by divisive opinions on slavery.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Yes it was. It was capitalism and communism fighting the far right of Nazism.
Center left center right and extreme left fighting extreme right.
Capitalism is Right, Communism is Far-Left.
Nazism is not Right at all, nor is Fascism. They don't properly fit on the political spectrum.
by Horde » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Capitalism is Right, Communism is Far-Left.
Nazism is not Right at all, nor is Fascism. They don't properly fit on the political spectrum.
by Chan Island » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:44 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:55 am
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Capitalism is Right, Communism is Far-Left.
Nazism is not Right at all, nor is Fascism. They don't properly fit on the political spectrum.
Capitalism is moderate, Communism is Far-Left, nazism is fascism. The Nazis called it a fascist state themselves.
Fascism is properly fitted on the political spectrum.
Horde wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Capitalism is Right, Communism is Far-Left.
Nazism is not Right at all, nor is Fascism. They don't properly fit on the political spectrum.
Hmm, I'd push back a little bit on that.
In the abstract sense, perhaps Nazism and Fascism do not fit that well into the left-right spectrum. But, practically, in terms of their real world actions and impacts, they fit squarely on the Right. They were Radical Right, not Conservative Right which we have been accustomed to seeing in more recent times
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:56 am
Chan Island wrote:Spare a moment about how this is the second panicky threat started by OP today about some country getting immigrants.
No opinion on it either way; the numbers are so small as to be pretty much inconsequential, and that trend downwards is going to keep going there as the war winds down in Syria.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:10 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Capitalism is moderate, Communism is Far-Left, nazism is fascism. The Nazis called it a fascist state themselves.
Fascism is properly fitted on the political spectrum.
Capitalism is definitely not moderate. I would know, I am a Capitalist.
Nazism is not Fascism, and the Nazis never claimed as such. Hitler was inspired by Mussolini but he did not seek to emulate his ideals. Fascism believed the spiritual superiority of cultures, whereas Nazism believed in the materialistic superiority of races. These are two distinct viewpoints, even if they are both forms of supremacism.
Fascism exhibits traits of both Left and Right beliefs, systems, and practices. It has origins in Socialism, of which Mussolini himself once believed in, and takes much of it's influence from Reactionaries, Conservatives, Traditionalists, Socialists, Syndicalists, and Nationalists. If it has to be placed on the spectrum then the closest description would be "extreme center", but even that is only semi-accurate. The political spectrum is too black-and-white.
by Chan Island » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:13 am
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Capitalism is definitely not moderate. I would know, I am a Capitalist.
Nazism is not Fascism, and the Nazis never claimed as such. Hitler was inspired by Mussolini but he did not seek to emulate his ideals. Fascism believed the spiritual superiority of cultures, whereas Nazism believed in the materialistic superiority of races. These are two distinct viewpoints, even if they are both forms of supremacism.
Fascism exhibits traits of both Left and Right beliefs, systems, and practices. It has origins in Socialism, of which Mussolini himself once believed in, and takes much of it's influence from Reactionaries, Conservatives, Traditionalists, Socialists, Syndicalists, and Nationalists. If it has to be placed on the spectrum then the closest description would be "extreme center", but even that is only semi-accurate. The political spectrum is too black-and-white.
Capitalism exists within moderate democracies. The posterboy of Capitalism is America. A nation founded on Liberal stances. Capitalism is moderate while Socialism is extreme.
No, Fascism is extreme right. It is authoritarian, suppressive and, undemocratic. Everything that Liberalism isn't.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Horde » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:26 am
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You aren't entirely wrong, but I'd disagree. Fascism's history and beliefs are a vibrant mixture of Left and Right philosophies, and I find their proper categorization to be difficult because of this. Fascists themselves claim to be "above and beyond" the political spectrum and, to an extent, I'm inclined to agree. If Fascism constitutes the extreme/radical/far Right then there is a vast difference between Right and Far-Right when compared to Left and Far-Left.
I disagree with the assertion personally because in my mind Traditionalism is more in-line with the "Far-Right" and fits better than Fascism, is more Revolutionary than Reactionary and is inherently Futurist in it's line of thinking even if it does indeed hold some Conservative opinions.
by Liriena » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 am
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:55 am
Liriena wrote:Bloggy as fuck OP asides... it makes a lot of sense for Spain to be a major destination for immigrants. For one, it has a lot of former colonies where Spanish remains the dominant language, and relatively recent Spanish heritage is widespread. Plus, even at its worst, Spain remains very attractive socioeconomically.
by Horde » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:08 am
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Its geographical proximity to Africa is a likelier explanation.
by Major-Tom » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:38 pm
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