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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Mattopilos II
Minister
 
Posts: 2596
Founded: Feb 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Mattopilos II » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:07 pm

Mardla wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:
In other words, you are stating the obvious but pretending to be profound. Sounds about right.

I'm not pretending to be profound, just literature. Stating the obvious is something very controversial among the left, in fact sometimes they will call it hate speech.

https://twitter.com/CAPSLOCKHUSTLER/sta ... 57408?s=19


Yes, you are. And no, it isn't. But you always seemed like the type to paint a group as ignorant to shirk off responsibility to actually have proper arguments past twitter posts.
Anarchist without adjectives, Post-Leftist, Anti-theist, STEM major.
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Mardla » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:11 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Mardla wrote:Eh, he got convicted for being a Nazi, essentially

No, he drove a car into a bunch of counter protesters. That is why he is in prison. You can't go to prison just for shitty political views.

Sure you can if that's the motive for your conviction. That's certainly the motive for convicting him of premeditated murder instead of manslaughter.
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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:12 pm

Mattopilos II wrote:
Mardla wrote:I'm not pretending to be profound, just literature. Stating the obvious is something very controversial among the left, in fact sometimes they will call it hate speech.

https://twitter.com/CAPSLOCKHUSTLER/sta ... 57408?s=19


Yes, you are. And no, it isn't. But you always seemed like the type to paint a group as ignorant to shirk off responsibility to actually have proper arguments past twitter posts.

Why would I need to make an argument when you just said my position was obvious?
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Mardla wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:No, he drove a car into a bunch of counter protesters. That is why he is in prison. You can't go to prison just for shitty political views.

Sure you can if that's the motive for your conviction. That's certainly the motive for convicting him of premeditated murder instead of manslaughter.

Manslaughter is about accidentally killing someone.
That guy literally made the decision to drive his car into a group of counter-protesters - that ain't manslaughter, that's murder.
Libertarian Syndicalist
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MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
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DISREGARD NS STATS
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Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:36 pm

Valgora wrote:
Mardla wrote:Sure you can if that's the motive for your conviction. That's certainly the motive for convicting him of premeditated murder instead of manslaughter.

Manslaughter is about accidentally killing someone.
That guy literally made the decision to drive his car into a group of counter-protesters - that ain't manslaughter, that's murder.

No, manslaughter includes doing violence leading to death under some circumstances to. I really doubt he would get premeditated murder if political convictions weren't involved.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:42 pm

Just pretend for a moment it's someone who drove at a crowd of Nazis because they were closed in and felt threatened.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Valgora
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6632
Founded: Mar 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Valgora » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:43 pm

Mardla wrote:
Valgora wrote:Manslaughter is about accidentally killing someone.
That guy literally made the decision to drive his car into a group of counter-protesters - that ain't manslaughter, that's murder.

No, manslaughter includes doing violence leading to death under some circumstances to. I really doubt he would get premeditated murder if political convictions weren't involved.

I already knew manslaughter included violence that lead to someone's death if you didn't intend to kill them.
But I don't see how that bastard didn't intend to kill someone when he decided to drive his car into a group of counter-protesters.
Libertarian Syndicalist
Not state capitalist

MT+FanT+some PMT
Multi-species.
Current gov't:
Founded 2023
Currently 2027

DISREGARD NS STATS
Link to factbooks-Forum Factbook-Q&A-Embassy
The Reverend Tim
Ordained Dudeist Priest
IRL Me
Luxemburgist/Syndicalist, brony, metalhead
Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:53 pm

Mardla wrote:Just pretend for a moment it's someone who drove at a crowd of Nazis because they were closed in and felt threatened.

That's not what happened, and it was clearly premeditated, as he posted on social media about his desire to kill people in the crowd.
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
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Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:22 pm

Mardla wrote:Just pretend for a moment it's someone who drove at a crowd of Nazis because they were closed in and felt threatened.

Why would we pretend that?

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Mattopilos II
Minister
 
Posts: 2596
Founded: Feb 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Mattopilos II » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:31 pm

Mardla wrote:
Mattopilos II wrote:
Yes, you are. And no, it isn't. But you always seemed like the type to paint a group as ignorant to shirk off responsibility to actually have proper arguments past twitter posts.

Why would I need to make an argument when you just said my position was obvious?


The definition you gave was obvious, but so broad it basically means nothing. Human nature includes A LOT. We eat food, we shit, we piss, we sleep, we mate....

Your definition is obvious, because it is so broad and trivial.
Anarchist without adjectives, Post-Leftist, Anti-theist, STEM major.
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner
“The victory of a moral ideal is achieved by the same ‘immoral’ means as every victory: force, lies, slander, injustice.” - Nietzsche
“Our duties - are the rights of others over us.” - Nietzsche

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:11 pm

Reikoku wrote:Imperialism isn't destroying the world.


Tell that to the people in Syria or Yemen.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:13 pm

Earthly Delights wrote:This is true enough. although its also true that Imperialism is killing lots of people, and making life crap for even more.


If one happens to live in the industrialized world, it is unlikely that one will notice the degree to which imperialism is literally destroying the world.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:15 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Imperialism isn't destroying the world.


Tell that to the people in Syria or Yemen.

Those two countries do not comprise the world. Nobody cares about them.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:16 pm

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:Prussian Socialism is definitely the superior brand. We have welfare, we have nationalism, we have some form of egalitarianism.


To belabor the obvious, Prussia also no longer exists.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:17 pm

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:Bernie is a communist though, as red as they come. He's a pinko.


lol. Then why does almost every communist I know, myself included, despise everything he stands for.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
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Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:18 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:Bernie is a communist though, as red as they come. He's a pinko.


lol. Then why does almost every communist I know, myself included, despise everything he stands form.

Reformism is an easy way to draw the ire of radicals.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:18 pm

Ryukyu wrote:are there more right-wingers in this thread than left-wingers? lol


Sometimes I wonder.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:20 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:Those two countries do not comprise the world. Nobody cares about them.


Nobody cares about them? Well, you just revealed a great deal about yourself in that statement, whether intentionally or not.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:21 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Those two countries do not comprise the world. Nobody cares about them.


Nobody cares about them? Well, you just revealed a great deal about yourself in that statement, whether intentionally or not.

I'm appreciating isolationism more and more. I don't care about Syria and Yemen, and I have no reason to.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:22 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:Reformism is an easy way to draw the ire of radicals.


I have no idea of what the means, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I feel no ire for anyone. I do, however, despise certain positions.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:23 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:I'm appreciating isolationism more and more. I don't care about Syria and Yemen, and I have no reason to.


That is really sad.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:23 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Reformism is an easy way to draw the ire of radicals.


I have no idea of what the means, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I feel no ire for anyone. I do, however, despise certain positions.

What is preferable, revolution or reform?
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:46 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:What is preferable, revolution or reform?


Preferable, reform. Realistic, revolution.

And I still don't understand how someone who identifies with right-libertarianism does not care about the liberties of people in Yemen or Syria. Quite confusing.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
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Founded: Jun 10, 2014
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Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:54 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:What is preferable, revolution or reform?


Preferable, reform. Realistic, revolution.

And I still don't understand how someone who identifies with right-libertarianism does not care about the liberties of people in Yemen or Syria. Quite confusing.

Is it the responsibility of western powers to overthrow Assad? If not, we leave them to authoritarianism. If so, we embrace "imperialism".
I care about their liberties insofar as they're willing to fight for them.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The Liberated Territories
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Posts: 11859
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:00 pm

Reminder that Bush is loved by the Kurds
Left Wing Market Anarchism

Yes, I am back(ish)

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