Hungary’s “Slave Law”

[Petrolheadia]

Since when is "bashing" a country/continent against the rules, and are these rules uniform or are there special rules for Afghanistan and Africa?

Everyone knows derogatory comments can only be made at right-wing stuff.

They deserve it. Don't want scary brown immigrants to come into your country? Work until you drop dead.

[Trumptonium1]

Hungary has the third largest wage growth on the planet, at just under 11% a year for the second year running.

That's why I don't want immigrants and get annoyed at my government having taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

It's not xenophobia, it's actual calculation.

Honestly the market should be allowed to respond and simply raise prices for labour.

I suppose the argument can be made that wage growth is too high for inflation (6% on real terms for Poland) but increasing immigration of Ukrainians only inflates market prices for everyone else regardless if they are participating in the wage increases or not, especially in the previously untouched sector of real estate/renting.

But it's no surprise some posters here are butthurt. At the end of the day the Czech Republic has 320 000 job vacancies (6% of entire labour force unfulfilled), which is more jobs on offer than in France and Spain (100 million more people than the Czechs) put together. Bound to be some resentment.

[Petrolheadia]

That's why I don't want immigrants and get annoyed at my government having taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

It's not xenophobia, it's actual calculation.

Honestly the market should be allowed to respond and simply raise prices for labour.

I suppose the argument can be made that wage growth is too high for inflation (6% on real terms for Poland) but increasing immigration of Ukrainians only inflates market prices for everyone else regardless if they are participating in the wage increases or not, especially in the previously untouched sector of real estate/renting.

But it's no surprise some posters here are butthurt. At the end of the day the Czech Republic has 320 000 job vacancies (6% of entire labour force unfulfilled), which is more jobs on offer than in France and Spain (100 million more people than the Czechs) put together. Bound to be some resentment.

That's free market without immigrant pressure for you.

Some really good stuff, it's a shame we have the Ukrainians.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Ya I thought it was a bit nuts. Is an extra day of work really that bad?

It just means that Americans need those nice things, too.

Agreed but to raise the revenue to pay for the things we might need to spend a little time working.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Honestly the market should be allowed to respond and simply raise prices for labour.

I suppose the argument can be made that wage growth is too high for inflation (6% on real terms for Poland) but increasing immigration of Ukrainians only inflates market prices for everyone else regardless if they are participating in the wage increases or not, especially in the previously untouched sector of real estate/renting.

But it's no surprise some posters here are butthurt. At the end of the day the Czech Republic has 320 000 job vacancies (6% of entire labour force unfulfilled), which is more jobs on offer than in France and Spain (100 million more people than the Czechs) put together. Bound to be some resentment.

That's free market without immigrant pressure for you.

Some really good stuff, it's a shame we have the Ukrainians.

Poland is one of the most homogeneous nations in Europe, yet somehow there are just enough Ukrainians for everything to be blamed on

Wot?

[Petrolheadia]

That's free market without immigrant pressure for you.

Some really good stuff, it's a shame we have the Ukrainians.

Poland is one of the most homogeneous nations in Europe, yet somehow there are just enough Ukrainians for everything to be blamed on

Wot?

Many hundreds of thousands, many hundreds of thousands too many in comparison with Hungary.

[Trumptonium1]

That's free market without immigrant pressure for you.

Some really good stuff, it's a shame we have the Ukrainians.

Poland is one of the most homogeneous nations in Europe, yet somehow there are just enough Ukrainians for everything to be blamed on

Wot?

It's significantly less homogeneous now than three years ago, although it does depend on whether you count them as residents because nearly all of them have visas with an expiration date and no option of permanent settlement.

Nobody is 'blaming' them per se, at the end of the day they're only using an opportunity to get wages. But people are blaming the government for allowing them in, thereby slowing down wage growth in comparison to the rest of the region which didn't take such steps. Although in this case it was more of a solidarity with Ukraine rather than economic issues related to labour shortage. To my knowledge most of the 2 million Ukrainians who work in Poland are those who were displaced by war in the East regions populated by ethnic Russians, and only about half of those live beyond the immediate border regions.

[Petrolheadia]

Poland is one of the most homogeneous nations in Europe, yet somehow there are just enough Ukrainians for everything to be blamed on

Wot?

It's significantly less homogeneous now than three years ago, although it does depend on whether you count them as residents because nearly all of them have visas with an expiration date and no option of permanent settlement.

Nobody is 'blaming' them per se, at the end of the day they're only using an opportunity to get wages. But people are blaming the government for allowing them in, thereby slowing down wage growth in comparison to the rest of the region which didn't take such steps. Although in this case it was more of a solidarity with Ukraine rather than economic issues related to labour shortage. To my knowledge most of the 2 million Ukrainians who work in Poland are those who were displaced by war in the East regions populated by ethnic Russians, and only about half of those live beyond the immediate border regions.

Unfortunately, I live near the border.

Poland B, anybody?

[Trumptonium1]

It's significantly less homogeneous now than three years ago, although it does depend on whether you count them as residents because nearly all of them have visas with an expiration date and no option of permanent settlement.

Nobody is 'blaming' them per se, at the end of the day they're only using an opportunity to get wages. But people are blaming the government for allowing them in, thereby slowing down wage growth in comparison to the rest of the region which didn't take such steps. Although in this case it was more of a solidarity with Ukraine rather than economic issues related to labour shortage. To my knowledge most of the 2 million Ukrainians who work in Poland are those who were displaced by war in the East regions populated by ethnic Russians, and only about half of those live beyond the immediate border regions.

Unfortunately, I live near the border.

Poland B, anybody?

I of course don't, but I was born pretty close to it. But I would say that Budapest and Szeged, both cities I've been to, have way more ethnic minorities than any city in Poland I've visited (which is just about all cities 100k+ minus Szczecin/Wroclaw/Poznan/Zielona Gora) or any of the cities where my relatives live, including Warsaw.

Beyond Hungary having tonnes more gypsies, there's also a visibly larger number of non-Europeans, especially Latinos and Indians. On the other hand Warsaw has a visible population of Mainland Southeast Asians and Gdynia of Libyans.

[Liriena]

Since when is "bashing" a country/continent against the rules, and are these rules uniform or are there special rules for Afghanistan and Africa?

Everyone knows derogatory comments can only be made at right-wing stuff.

I wish.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Sorry, something doesn't seem right with this op...

400 hours annually? That's 10 working weeks in the UK. I very much doubt that Hungarian workers generally work 5-hour weeks.

[Arayas]

There is a difference between sensible immigration and opening the fucking floodgates, y'know.

And Hungary fits neither of these criteria.

Hungarians are very strict about preserving their *very unique from a European PoV* culture.

Yes, I know. Their government is a bunch of delusional ethno-nationalists.

Yeah they need some culturally enriching rape spikes and terrorism like Germany, France, Sweden and Britain.

[Novus Wrepland]

It's perfectly voluntary, guys! Either comply with us and work "voluntarily" until you drop, or starve. The decision is yours!

You can't be this naive.

Allow me to be blunt:

Are you illiterate?

I feel it necessary to ask this question because this is the third time you make this claim after being told the direct opposite. I am sorry but I cannot dumb it down ever further. This is as simple English as English can get.

To quote the article:

Employers won’t be allowed to penalize workers who reject extra hours

This may surprise you, but there are millions of people out there who want to work overtime to get paid more. This law allows them to do so. Previously, they could not do so even if they wanted to. Employees in Europe are not allowed to work more than 48 hours a week, unless national governments legislate an opportunity to do so in which case the employee can only work more than 48 hours if they submit a written statement to a relevant authority. Previously, the absolute legal maximum working time in Hungary was 48 hours for contract employees. In the UK, the legal maximum is also limited to 48 hours including overtime.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32003L0088

You are talking about the law after it was compromised. Asking whether Ocelot is illiterate seems unnecessary when there merely could have been a misunderstanding over what was being discussed (the actual law passed versus the one the government seemed to have wanted.)

[Novus Wrepland]

Sorry, something doesn't seem right with this op...

400 hours annually? That's 10 working weeks in the UK. I very much doubt that Hungarian workers generally work 5-hour weeks.

It’s 400 hours of extra time I think.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Sorry, something doesn't seem right with this op...

400 hours annually? That's 10 working weeks in the UK. I very much doubt that Hungarian workers generally work 5-hour weeks.

It’s 400 hours of extra time I think.

...seriously?
If they get payed overtime, I see no problem with this law. Europeans work 8-hour days for the most part, unless you're trying to do other things (family commitments, a degree) at the same time an extra hour here or there isn't going to be the end of the world.

[Novus Wrepland]

It’s 400 hours of extra time I think.

...seriously?
If they get payed overtime, I see no problem with this law. Europeans work 8-hour days for the most part, unless you're trying to do other things (family commitments, a degree) at the same time an extra hour here or there isn't going to be the end of the world.

The original law allowed employers to force people to work extra time. From a liberal point of view, I too don’t think allowing people to work extra time voluntarily is such a bad thing, but forcing people to? That defeats the purpose of extra time first of all.

[Liriena]

And Hungary fits neither of these criteria.


Yes, I know. Their government is a bunch of delusional ethno-nationalists.

Yeah they need some culturally enriching rape spikes and terrorism like Germany, France, Sweden and Britain.

Calm down.

[Telconi]

...seriously?
If they get payed overtime, I see no problem with this law. Europeans work 8-hour days for the most part, unless you're trying to do other things (family commitments, a degree) at the same time an extra hour here or there isn't going to be the end of the world.

The original law allowed employers to force people to work extra time. From a liberal point of view, I too don’t think allowing people to work extra time voluntarily is such a bad thing, but forcing people to? That defeats the purpose of extra time first of all.

If it's a part of employment, I don't see an issue with mandatory OT.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Clearly the beat solution is to screw over immigrants and natives at the same time

[Telconi]

Clearly the beat solution is to screw over immigrants and natives at the same time

And here I thought you were all about people getting screwed

[Revived Russian Empire]

Yeah they need some culturally enriching rape spikes and terrorism like Germany, France, Sweden and Britain.

Calm down.

He seems to be very calm from how I’m reading it.

[Internationalist Bastard]

The original law allowed employers to force people to work extra time. From a liberal point of view, I too don’t think allowing people to work extra time voluntarily is such a bad thing, but forcing people to? That defeats the purpose of extra time first of all.

If it's a part of employment, I don't see an issue with mandatory OT.

Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

[Internationalist Bastard]

Clearly the beat solution is to screw over immigrants and natives at the same time

And here I thought you were all about people getting screwed

I like the happy fun kind not the kind that literally makes everyone miserable

[Telconi]

If it's a part of employment, I don't see an issue with mandatory OT.

Mandatory overtime in and of itself is an oxymoron
Overtime implies they are working more to achieve a goal of either more pay or to finish their task. It implies employee initiative
By forcing people to work overtime they are just working what they have to work

Overtime implies it's time over the normal work day. It's overtime rather your boss says to do it, or you voluntarily ask for it.

And some jobs basically must have it, I can't just fuck off of a job because it's quitting time. As of quitting time yesterday I had a customer''s home with literal holes poked in it, if I just punched out and went home, this person would have spent the night with literal holes in their home, this is bad juju. Which is why we have a set limit of mandatory OT, on any given week, the company can, at their sole discretion. have me work up to 14 hours of mandatory OT, on days I already work a shift.

[Merther]

We are often told that the “mainstream” excuse given for immigration to the aging countries of Europe, that immigrants are needed to fill positions in the economy, is a lie. At worst, all we need is to drastically increase spending allocated to families. At best, the status quo will actually lead us to a heaven where we all enjoy standards of living due to a decreased population. Well if that were so why did Fidesz feel the need to squeeze Hungarian labor? Seems like immigration is a good thing after all, unless you’re a fan of the 19th Century work week.

Nope, we just don't want any of these Muslim people in our continent. This isn't just an "Hungary doesn't want migrants", it's a "Europe doesn't want migrants."

And if you think that Europe = EU then you're part of these people that are ruining these "AgINg COuNtRieS of EuROPe". Europe is the cradle of modern civilization and technology. This is why you speak English. This is why you have access to industrial electricity. Europe isn't "aging", it's not getting Conservative like an old Republican grandma. Europe wants to evolve, and hosting a horde of culturally primitive people isn't helping Europe to evolve at all.

Also your argument of the "19th century work week" is pretty weak. France introduced the 35 hours work week in 1936. The amount of Muslim migrants flooding France at that time was ridiculous to none. Also Hungary has around 9 800 000 inhabitants, and is part of the EU. Having 9 800 000 inhabitants doesn't allows a very big workfore, and the Hungarian currency, the Forint, isn't strong compare to the Euro, which is itself one of the - if not the - strongest currency of the World. More workforce, more economic output. More economic output = Possibility of the EU Commission validating your request for the Euro as a National currency.

But if you take on a Workforce that :
1) Probably doesn't speaks Hungarian since it's an "Alien" language.
2) Creates unrests because Muslims can't cooperate with Christians.
3) Could probably include terrorists.
4) Will have to be fed, hosted and integrated.
5) Will stay in their own "Migrant" groups, thus creating isolationist ethnic groups.

Well at the end you end up with a country that wants to kick all the migrants out, with a country that could possibly get his own "9/11", a country that is spending a sh*t ton of money to take care of the migrants, even after they have been accepted as an inhabitant of your country, and finally you end up with a country that is paralized by a part of its own population. Which is counter-productive.

You want migrants ? Fine, take em with you, feed them, give them a place to stay, and provide them the money they need to live. But don't piss off the Europeans.