The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Herskerstad]

No they really don't, that would eliminate the term 'slave'.

Yes they do. A slave can't buy their freedom if they don't get paid.

Are slave owners obligated to pay their slaves in Islam? And we are strictly talking currency. Not food and water.

[Kowani]

not blindly it follows 2 syllogisms
syllogism A
1. God's teachings are always the truth
2. the Quran is God's teachings
3. the Quran is the truth
Syllogism B
1.commands from God are always moral
2. Quranic commands are from God
3. Quranic commands are always moral

Premise 2 in syllogism A needs to be proven first

Add Premise 2 in Syllogism B as well.

Of course, apply that to the Bible while you’re at it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Yes they do. A slave can't buy their freedom if they don't get paid.

Are slave owners obligated to pay their slaves in Islam? And we are strictly talking currency. Not food and water.

They are supposed to give the slave a monetary grant for their freedom. It's like money for them to use now that they're free. That's the closest thing to a payment a slave gets in Al-Islam.

[Kaggeceria]

Are slave owners obligated to pay their slaves in Islam? And we are strictly talking currency. Not food and water.

They are supposed to give the slave a monetary grant for their freedom. It's like money for them to use now that they're free. That's the closest thing to a payment a slave gets in Al-Islam.

So they're only paid if they are freed.

Which seems to just provide more incentive for their master not to free them.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Yes they do. A slave can't buy their freedom if they don't get paid.

Are slave owners obligated to pay their slaves in Islam? And we are strictly talking currency. Not food and water.

Not as far as I know. And according the majority of Sunni madhhabs (Maliki, Shafii, and Hanafi), they aren't required to even offer a slave a mukataba (manumission contract). It's simply mustahab.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They are supposed to give the slave a monetary grant for their freedom. It's like money for them to use now that they're free. That's the closest thing to a payment a slave gets in Al-Islam.

So they're only paid if they are freed.

Which seems to just provide more incentive for their master not to free them.

https://legacy.quran.com/2/177:

righteousness is...freeing slaves

[Herskerstad]

Are slave owners obligated to pay their slaves in Islam? And we are strictly talking currency. Not food and water.

They are supposed to give the slave a monetary grant for their freedom. It's like money for them to use now that they're free. That's the closest thing to a payment a slave gets in Al-Islam.

I asked obliged, not supposed, could, or maybe would. Must. Are they by Shariah enforced to do so?

[Kaggeceria]

So they're only paid if they are freed.

Which seems to just provide more incentive for their master not to free them.

https://legacy.quran.com/2/177:

righteousness is...freeing slaves

And yet slavery is permitted in the Quran.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They are supposed to give the slave a monetary grant for their freedom. It's like money for them to use now that they're free. That's the closest thing to a payment a slave gets in Al-Islam.

I asked obliged, not supposed, could, or maybe would. Must. Are they by Shariah enforced to do so?

"Enforced to do" what? Free slaves or pay them?

https://legacy.quran.com/2/177:

And yet slavery is permitted in the Quran.

Correct.

Really wish people would stop saying that, too. On top of that, I never said that.

So, I'll repeat: are the Nizaris right?

Heck No

What about the Hanafis? Salafis?

Yeah they're alright.

"What is in al-Islam and the Holy Quran..."

*"...and Sunnah"

isn't a legitimate answer.

Yes it is. Whatever is in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah is what Al-Islam is.

Because obviously how they are interpreted differs

And those interpretations are null if they are contrary to the teachings in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah or if they can't be justified by them.

[Kaggeceria]

I asked obliged, not supposed, could, or maybe would. Must. Are they by Shariah enforced to do so?

"Enforced to do" what? Free slaves or pay them?

And yet slavery is permitted in the Quran.

Correct.

So, I'll repeat: are the Nizaris right?

Heck No

What about the Hanafis? Salafis?

Yeah they're alright.

"What is in al-Islam and the Holy Quran..."

*"...and Sunnah"

isn't a legitimate answer.

Yes it is. Whatever is in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah is what Al-Islam is.

Because obviously how they are interpreted differs

And those interpretations are null if they are contrary to the teachings in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah or if they can't be justified by them.

So slavery is permitted in the Quran... and you yourself say you support everything in the Quran... then that means you support slavery.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

"Enforced to do" what? Free slaves or pay them?

Correct.

Heck No

Yeah they're alright.

*"...and Sunnah"

Yes it is. Whatever is in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah is what Al-Islam is.

And those interpretations are null if they are contrary to the teachings in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah or if they can't be justified by them.

So slavery is permitted in the Quran... and you yourself say you support everything in the Quran... then that means you support slavery.

If it's according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, yes.

[Herskerstad]

I asked obliged, not supposed, could, or maybe would. Must. Are they by Shariah enforced to do so?

"Enforced to do" what? Free slaves or pay them?

One, the other, or both.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

"Enforced to do" what? Free slaves or pay them?

One, the other, or both.

Well paying your slave wouldn't make them a slave, that'd make them your employee. And freeing slaves is not "enforced" by Shari'ah, it's recommended.

[Frievolk]

One, the other, or both.

Well paying your slave wouldn't make them a slave, that'd make them your employee. And freeing slaves is not "enforced" by Shari'ah, it's recommended.

A religion that supports the Institution of Slavery, and instead of "Maybe the religion isn't right", you think "Maybe slavery is alright"?
You're the definition of "consumer of time and occupier of space", you know.

[Herskerstad]

One, the other, or both.

Well paying your slave wouldn't make them a slave, that'd make them your employee. And freeing slaves is not "enforced" by Shari'ah, it's recommended.

In other words, utterly worthless as far as the common good of slaves is concerned. Having only spiritual gud boi points to exchange for exploitation which has predictable societal implications.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well paying your slave wouldn't make them a slave, that'd make them your employee. And freeing slaves is not "enforced" by Shari'ah, it's recommended.

In other words, utterly worthless as far as the common good of slaves is concerned. Having only spiritual gud boi points to exchange for exploitation which has predictable societal implications.

What? Al-Islam still teaches to treat slaves honorably:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY

[Sahansahiye Iran]

And those interpretations are null if they are contrary to the teachings in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah or if they can't be justified by them.

Lol you don't think the Nizaris can justify their beliefs according to the Quran and Sunnah if they want? It's literally just a mild interpretation.

[Kaggeceria]

So slavery is permitted in the Quran... and you yourself say you support everything in the Quran... then that means you support slavery.

If it's according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, yes.

And this is yet another reason why you and anyone else who holds your views should be deplatformed and marginalized. Your views would set us back several hundred years.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

And those interpretations are null if they are contrary to the teachings in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah or if they can't be justified by them.

Lol you don't think the Nizaris can justify their beliefs according to the Quran and Sunnah if they want? It's literally just a mild interpretation.

I've been on what I think is the main website for Isma'ili beliefs. I've read their arguments. They are bad.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

These are their beliefs here

[Herskerstad]

In other words, utterly worthless as far as the common good of slaves is concerned. Having only spiritual gud boi points to exchange for exploitation which has predictable societal implications.

What? Al-Islam still teaches to treat slaves honorably:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY

Is a muslim man permitted sexual intercourse with those whom his right hand possess that are not his wife?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What? Al-Islam still teaches to treat slaves honorably:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY

Is a muslim man permitted sexual intercourse with those whom his right hand possess that are not his wife?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9be8TkbFShI

[Kaggeceria]

Is a muslim man permitted sexual intercourse with those whom his right hand possess that are not his wife?

https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1243, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9be8TkbFShI

You are right. Islam forbade slavery

And right there we know your sources are full of shit.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1243, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9be8TkbFShI

You are right. Islam forbade slavery

And right there we know your sources are full of

>2nd source has literally a reputable Muslim Islamic scholar (who is a Sheikh iirc) discussing the matter and uses daleel from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah

[Dar as-Salam]

And right there we know your sources are full of

>2nd source has literally a reputable Muslim Islamic scholar (who is a Sheikh iirc) discussing the matter and uses daleel from the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah

Ur right Masha Allah