Another day, another burqa ban(in Denmark)

[Fahran]

The people who want to drive the Muslims from Europa and re-take the Holy Land

I don't believe the Danish government has any intention of expelling all Muslims from Europe or retaking the Holy Land. Their principal intention was probably to curtail overt expressions of adherence to or support for the Deobandi and Wahhabi sects in Denmark. While I'm not familiar with their stance on trans rights, their positions on gay rights and women's rights are quite well known. Cultural concerns and women's rights probably played some role in this policy.

are largely the same people as those who want to "cure" anyone suspected of having the gay.

Actually, many prominent spokespeople for the alt-right are not especially interested in torturing gay people until they become straight. Some of them are ardent secularists or atheists. Some of them are even openly gay themselves. So, no, even blatant Islamophobes aren't necessarily coming to get gay folks.

So there's nothing surprising about LGBT people speaking out in support of the rights of Muslims.

Radicals. Again, burqas and niqabs are not widely seen as appropriate garb for pious Muslim women in the Middle East. They're most popular in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan - essentially places where the government or warlords imposed them on women after seizing power by less than peaceful means.

[Fahran]

I never said anything about niqabs and burqas being obligatory nor have I said anything about revivalism.

So it's not necessary to wear a niqab or burqa to be a good Muslim? We can agree on that much. Do you object to my characterization of such garments as being tied to revivalist sects?

[Kubumba Tribe]

I never said anything about niqabs and burqas being obligatory nor have I said anything about revivalism.

So it's not necessary to wear a niqab or burqa to be a good Muslim? We can agree on that much.

Yep.

Do you object to my characterization of such garments as being tied to revivalist sects?

I object to that being the sole tie.

[Napkiraly]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

The people who want to drive the Muslims from Europa and re-take the Holy Land are largely the same people as those who want to "cure" anyone suspected of having the gay. So there's nothing surprising about LGBT people speaking out in support of the rights of Muslims.

We're talking about them supporting known Islamists and/or allying with Islamist groups, not supporting the rights of run of the mill Muslims.

And even then it's like backing strict Catholics to snub evangelical Protestants. Both sides still hate their guts.

[Conserative Morality]

Radicals. Again, burqas and niqabs are not widely seen as appropriate garb for pious Muslim women in the Middle East. They're most popular in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan - essentially places where the government or warlords imposed them on women after seizing power by less than peaceful means.

Oh, good, I will keep this argument in mind for next time I try to suppress religious rights of Jews and Christians.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Radicals. Again, burqas and niqabs are not widely seen as appropriate garb for pious Muslim women in the Middle East. They're most popular in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan - essentially places where the government or warlords imposed them on women after seizing power by less than peaceful means.

Oh, good, I will keep this argument in mind for next time I try to suppress religious rights of Jews and Christians.

That's not what Fahran said.

[Conserative Morality]

That's not what Fahran said.

It's an argument that can be applied to any religion. I am just glad that I have such license now to denounce religious practices as associated with radicals! Freedom of religion, after all, doesn't mean freedom to interpret your religion.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

That's not what Fahran said.

It's an argument that can be applied to any religion. I am just glad that I have such license now to denounce religious practices as associated with radicals! Freedom of religion, after all, doesn't mean freedom to interpret your religion.

Again, that's not what Fahran said.

[Conserative Morality]

Again, that's not what Fahran said.

So there's nothing surprising about LGBT people speaking out in support of the rights of Muslims.

Radicals. Again, burqas and niqabs are not widely seen as appropriate garb for pious Muslim women in the Middle East. They're most popular in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan - essentially places where the government or warlords imposed them on women after seizing power by less than peaceful means.

[Frievolk]

@Amin: What did Fahran write then?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Again, that's not what Fahran said.

Radicals. Again, burqas and niqabs are not widely seen as appropriate garb for pious Muslim women in the Middle East. They're most popular in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan - essentially places where the government or warlords imposed them on women after seizing power by less than peaceful means.

Ok? She still wasn't saying "ban religious clothing cause it's radical". She's explaining Denmark's motives, not supporting them.

[Frievolk]

Ok? She still wasn't saying "ban religious clothing cause it's radical". She's explaining Denmark's motives, not supporting them.

I personally interpreted it as "It's more of a ethnically cultural thing rather than a religious thing", which is closer to the truth tbh. I mean, I'm still not sure how that stops people from wearing them (do we ban all clothing of 'foreign' ethnic cultures in a country?) even though I support banning it myself.

[Conserative Morality]

Ok? She still wasn't saying "ban religious clothing cause it's radical". She's explaining Denmark's motives, not supporting them.

She's justifying it as not a simple abuse of religious freedom because of dickheads, when in reality that's all it is.

[Thermodolia]

Remember with who you are debating. Kubumba is definitely very much that which I bolded

Unification of masjid and state =/= radical

As I and many others have said before supporting a theocracy is radical and extremist. You are an admitted theocrat and therefore you are a radical and an extremist.

The Sikhs can shove it

Why are you so against religiousness?

I’m not. What I’m against is everyone kowtowing to every little religious demand in the public sphere. They can wear their religious garments in their homes or their places of religious worship but not in public and definitely not in the military

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I’m not. What I’m against is everyone kowtowing to every little religious demand in the public sphere. They can wear their religious garments in their homes or their places of religious worship but not in public and definitely not in the military

You're triggered over clothing.
Ok.

[Thermodolia]

I’m not. What I’m against is everyone kowtowing to every little religious demand in the public sphere. They can wear their religious garments in their homes or their places of religious worship but not in public and definitely not in the military

You're triggered over clothing.
Ok.

Nope. I just don’t think that it’s conducive the national unity

[Frievolk]

I’m not. What I’m against is everyone kowtowing to every little religious demand in the public sphere. They can wear their religious garments in their homes or their places of religious worship but not in public and definitely not in the military

You're triggered over clothing.
Ok.

A tad bit hypocritical of a Muslim to say that, don't you think?

[Vassenor]

Good. It is NOT connected to Islam. It is a cultural tradition. If they refuse to assimilate then they need to go back to Germany.

"Be exactly like us or GTFO". Got it.

[Frievolk]

Good. It is NOT connected to Islam. It is a cultural tradition. If they refuse to assimilate then they need to go back to Germany.

"Be exactly like us or GTFO". Got it.

Well yes. That's how Nation-states work. We divide pieces of land over culture, those who are "like us" belong with us, those who aren't 'like us' get to a place where more people are like them.
If you can't handle pretending to respect the culture of the country you're in enough not to wear a garbage bag out in the open, you probably don't belong there.

[Geneviev]

Good. It is NOT connected to Islam. It is a cultural tradition. If they refuse to assimilate then they need to go back to Germany.

"Be exactly like us or GTFO". Got it.

Back to Germany? What? Germans (some) are trying to get rid of Islam just as much.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Tbf, and leaving aside the critics on Vass directly which we can easily excuse as being somewhat deserved given their own posting """style""", he does raise a valid point.
Why is it always the LGBTQXEDGTESDFTEDGR+ who rush first to defend Islam in spite of everything when their very beliefs and ideology would be persecuted like never before if those very same extremists got into power. That unsurprisingly bogger the mind of quite a lot of people.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

No, the enemy of your enemy is very much also your enemy in this scenario. That's the case more often than not.

[Gallia-]

> it comes from a culture of oppressing women
> but if they freely to choose to wear it

Pick one.

The history of it comes from fundamentalist Islam forcing women to wear the burqas and treating them as second class citizens. But if they wear it by their choice there's no problem with that.

There is no choice. It's a decision made entirely without, and for the purpose of denying, women's sexual agency. It hides the female body while keeping the male body exposed. Thus, there's nothing wrong with banning burqas or niqabs.

That's sort of how those old religions like Islam and Orthodox Christianity work. Women do not make choices, decisions, or have agency. They do what their husbands tell them and get beaten when they refuse. Naturally there are more liberal sects of these religions that prefer women just dress as babushkas or whatever with shawls, but this law doesn't touch shawls or headscarves, so it doesn't really seem to be much of a problem for those people, because they actually do get some choice in the matter, maybe. The alternative is having a law that forces Muslim males of the same sects of Islam to wear the burqa/niqab alongside their wives. This would equalize both by denying either sexual agency, but that seems difficult to enforce (instead of saying "take it off," you must now be aware of the internal environment of every male around you and carry around niqabs to slap on their faces), and no doubt the males would throw a big hissy fit at having to wear women's clothes or something.

The burqa ban is perfectly fine. Denmark bans running around naked too.

[New yugoslavaia]

The history of it comes from fundamentalist Islam forcing women to wear the burqas and treating them as second class citizens. But if they wear it by their choice there's no problem with that.

There is no choice. It's a decision made entirely without, and for the purpose of denying, women's agency.

That's sort of how those old religions like Islam and Orthodox Christianity work. Women do not make choices, decisions, or have agency. They do what their husbands tell them and get beaten when they refuse.

And this, my friends, is why I'm an atheist...oh, and religion has torn the world apart more than it has unified it.
If only there was just one Global religion that was either completely or near-completely free of radicals and extremists.

[Gallia-]

There is no choice. It's a decision made entirely without, and for the purpose of denying, women's agency.

That's sort of how those old religions like Islam and Orthodox Christianity work. Women do not make choices, decisions, or have agency. They do what their husbands tell them and get beaten when they refuse.

And this, my friends, is why I'm an atheist...oh, and religion has torn the world apart more than it has unified it.
If only there was just one Global religion that was either completely or near-completely free of radicals and extremists.

Atheists beat their wives and deny women agency too.

Burqa bans just aren't one of those times.

[New yugoslavaia]

And this, my friends, is why I'm an atheist...oh, and religion has torn the world apart more than it has unified it.
If only there was just one Global religion that was either completely or near-completely free of radicals and extremists.

Atheists beat their wives and deny women agency too.

Burqa bans just aren't one of those times.

I wasn't saying atheist are all good and pure, just saying I am one. Also, I'm a virgin.

"You can't beat you're wife if you don't have one."
[Insert roll safe]

Still though, what about one global religion? There would be a lot more unity if nearly everyone wasn't arguing over which religion is the best.