Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Ostroeuropa]

People calling themselves feminists, or people who believe in gender equality? I've seen that shell game played.

I am an academic. We don't, as a rule, play shell games. People calling themselves feminists is making a comeback. People who believe in gender equality has never experienced a setback.

Can I see a source that shows an increase? Further, you specify millenials.

If feminism has declined outside that set more rapidly than the increase within that set, then it's still in decline. Your offered evidence doesn't support your claim.

[Aillyria]

You welcome the duluth model and other sexist actions the feminist movement has perpetrated against men? Can you explain your reasoning?

Because I believe that the oppressor should pay for his oppression.

Well, well, we finally see it!!! What happened to your belief that revolution shouldn't be a vendetta???

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Can I see a source that shows an increase? Further, you specify millenials.

I am writing about your own source.

As to others, there are many academic sources. However, I don't know if you would be able to access them. So here is a reference to a newspaper article:

"Return of feminism has come as a bit of a shock" Bristol Post (Bristol, England). (Apr. 15, 2015): Regional News: p22.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Well, well, we finally see it!!! What happened to your belief that revolution shouldn't be a vendetta???

I am not talking about a vendetta. I am talking about what Roy Bhaskar likes to call karma.

[Ostroeuropa]

Can I see a source that shows an increase? Further, you specify millenials.

I am writing about your own source.

As to others, there are many academic sources. However, I don't know if you would be able to access them. So here is a reference to a newspaper article:

"Return of feminism has come as a bit of a shock" Bristol Post (Bristol, England). (Apr. 15, 2015): Regional News: p22.

Check the second link I posted. The first link was a height link, the second link goes to a thread with multiple sources explaining the decline.
2015 is out of date.
From 2015 to 2017, 1/3rd of people identifying as feminist stopped doing so.

This was during a surge of both feminist and MRM activity. The MRM, meanwhile, doubled in size.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It seems to be getting smaller and smaller, from what I can see. Really, discussions about feminism shouldn't be done here anyway. The feminist thread is here.

Seems to be is not an argument.

Neither is a claim that "author x says so" when all those not living on a university campus have no way to access the text in timely fashion to assess either the correctness of what you've said (which never contains sufficient level of detail to facilitate a discussion) or the data that the author is basing their theory on (which, by the way, you never provide).

Whenever anyone tries to talk about how vocabulary is used outside of academia you attempt to disallow it with smarmy tests of what "muh author" says about it and then declare that they "don't know enough about it" to debate when in fact it is you rather than them who is ignorant about how these ideas are actually being used in society and the effect that they are actually having outside of very narrow academic circles.

You are willing to debate only on extremely narrow academic terms, only about theory and never real world praxis, based only on resources that the vast majority of us have no immediate access to. This array of stances collapses the entirety of social reality into a tiny lecture hall floating in the vacuum of space, thoroughly detached from the planet the rest of us are living on.

[Cekoviu]

Well, well, we finally see it!!! What happened to your belief that revolution shouldn't be a vendetta???

I am not talking about a vendetta. I am talking about what Roy Bhaskar likes to call karma.

That's not karma, that's an eye-for-an-eye punishment, which nobody deserves here. Focus on achieving equality in the future rather than dwelling on the past.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I am not talking about a vendetta. I am talking about what Roy Bhaskar likes to call karma.

That's not karma, that's an eye-for-an-eye punishment, which nobody deserves here. Focus on achieving equality in the future rather than dwelling on the past.

You're about to be told that your understanding of karma is wrong, that Bhaskar owns the term, and that as you haven't read Bhaskar you're ignorant and not allowed to use the word karma any more without getting a failing grade and no pudding.

[Aillyria]

Well, well, we finally see it!!! What happened to your belief that revolution shouldn't be a vendetta???

I am not talking about a vendetta. I am talking about what Roy Bhaskar likes to call karma.

Samething.

If you're pushing for oppression of people based soley on their lineage, not their personal actions, that is a generational vendetta. That'd be like me finding a white person and killing them since their ancestors may have enslaved mine, that's stupid and unjustified.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Check the second link I posted. The first link was a height link, the second link goes to a thread with multiple sources explaining the decline.
2015 is out of date.
From 2015 to 2017, 1/3rd of people identifying as feminist stopped doing so.

This was during a surge of both feminist and MRM activity. The MRM, meanwhile, doubled in size.

Apparently you have not read the article.

[Ostroeuropa]

I am not talking about a vendetta. I am talking about what Roy Bhaskar likes to call karma.

That's not karma, that's an eye-for-an-eye punishment, which nobody deserves here. Focus on achieving equality in the future rather than dwelling on the past.

It isn't eye for an eye punishment.
It's hating jews because some jews killed jesus.

Men born today have no culpability for actions of other men born yesterday, so "Punishment" doesn't even factor in, what it is, is outright hatred and prejudice based on historical narratives. This is also one of the reasons feminism is undesirable as a movement, and another thing men have to put up with as a result of it.

it's not an isolated thing. Plenty of men have to deal with women who claim its justified to do whatever to them because history. What's depressing is when men have been gaslit by feminism to also believe that.

Whatever you think feminism is, if it generates these kind of effects, it is clearly unfit for purpose.

Jess Phillips for instance pulled this shit in parliament to mock the concept of an international mens day.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

It isn't eye for an eye punishment.
It's hating jews because some jews killed jesus.

Men born today have no culpability for actions of other men born yesterday, so "Punishment" doesn't even factor in, what it is, is outright hatred and prejudice.

As the offspring of two Jewish parents, I do not believe in hating anyone. I am also not talking about human punishment. To Roy Bhaskar, karma, as he called it, is one of the causal mechanisms operating in this world.

[Ostroeuropa]

I understand the impulse. I just don't think it's positive and wouldn't advocate for it, nor publicly say if it had happened that I welcomed it.

For instance, if there were an anti-feminist political revolution, hanging the most egregious bigots of the movement would be viscerally satisfying. for a few brief moments. As would legislation to reduce them to second class citizens, perhaps legislation saying anyone who beats a feminist is acting in self defence.

But if that actually happened, it would be appalling, and I wouldn't say I welcomed it.

You on the other hand are acting that way over actual shit feminists have done to men. Not merely indulging in feeding the predatory parts of your brain a scenario to keep them sated enough to let the civilized part get on with its job.

You may not believe in hating anyone, but you are. I never used to believe in doing drugs, but still did them. You are not entitled to automatic adherence to your own principles, mere belief is not sufficient substitute for effort.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It isn't eye for an eye punishment.
It's hating jews because some jews killed jesus.

Men born today have no culpability for actions of other men born yesterday, so "Punishment" doesn't even factor in, what it is, is outright hatred and prejudice.

As the offspring of two Jewish parents, I do not believe in hating anyone. I am also not talking about human punishment. To Roy Bhaskar, karma, as he called it, is one of the causal mechanisms operating in this world.

So where does this "mechanism" factor in in regards to men and women? Particularly sexist policies against men which you have completely failed to address, opting instead to go on about karma.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

But if that actually happened, it would be appalling, and I wouldn't say I welcomed it.

I neither welcome nor despise it. However, I agree with Roy that karma is a causal mechanism.

[Ostroeuropa]

But if that actually happened, it would be appalling, and I wouldn't say I welcomed it.

I neither welcome nor despise it. However, I agree with Roy that karma is a causal mechanism.

You said "As a man, I welcome it."

So are you backpedaling now?

If you don't deny it, then you should look for the root cause, and that root cause is a fundamentally malformed understanding of sexism at the root of the worldview.

No, I don't deny it. As a man, I welcome it.

[Aillyria]

It isn't eye for an eye punishment.
It's hating jews because some jews killed jesus.

Men born today have no culpability for actions of other men born yesterday, so "Punishment" doesn't even factor in, what it is, is outright hatred and prejudice.

As the offspring of two Jewish parents, I do not believe in hating anyone. I am also not talking about human punishment. To Roy Bhaskar, karma, as he called it, is one of the causal mechanisms operating in this world.

Oh really? Then what about this post below?

That's like saying white people should be kept as slaves because their ancestors kept black people as slaves.

I would never advocate the enslavement of anyone, but, oh, how the world would be so much better.

You sure do seem to relish the idea of white people being slaves, cause apparently the world would be better for it.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

But if that actually happened, it would be appalling, and I wouldn't say I welcomed it.

I neither welcome nor despise it. However, I agree with Roy that karma is a causal mechanism.

Do you not agree that injustice and cycles of hate are despicable?

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

So are you backpedaling now?

No, I don't deny it. As a man, I welcome it.

I was speaking personally and emotively. I feel morally culpable for the suffering of women, even though, as far as I know, I have not contributed to it. However, collectively, I do not believe in vengeance.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It isn't eye for an eye punishment.
It's hating jews because some jews killed jesus.

Men born today have no culpability for actions of other men born yesterday, so "Punishment" doesn't even factor in, what it is, is outright hatred and prejudice.

As the offspring of two Jewish parents, I do not believe in hating anyone. I am also not talking about human punishment. To Roy Bhaskar, karma, as he called it, is one of the causal mechanisms operating in this world.

You're really being very obtuse here so it's difficult to tease out what you're actually saying.

As you used "karma" in this sense in reference to Ostro's post, your belief is presumably that the prevalence of the duluth model and its denialism of male victims of domestic abuse - and consequent underfunding and lack of care (both medical and social) for such victims - represents some kind of cosmic vengeance upon men as a group for the historical sins of previous generations.

Wow.

[Ostroeuropa]

So are you backpedaling now?

I was speaking personally and emotively. I feel morally culpable for the suffering of women, even though, as far as I know, I have not contributed to it. However, collectively, I do not believe in vengeance.

So feminism as a worldview has made you feel positive about other men who have not contributed to it, being treated like second class citizens?

This is the problem i'm talking about. It has mutilated your capacity for empathy to believe in this doctrine.

[Ostroeuropa]

As the offspring of two Jewish parents, I do not believe in hating anyone. I am also not talking about human punishment. To Roy Bhaskar, karma, as he called it, is one of the causal mechanisms operating in this world.

You're really being very obtuse here so it's difficult to tease out what you're actually saying.

As you used "karma" in this sense in reference to Ostro's post, your belief is presumably that the prevalence of the duluth model and its denialism of male victims of domestic abuse - and consequent underfunding and lack of care (both medical and social) for such victims - represents some kind of cosmic vengeance upon men as a group for the historical sins of previous generations.

Wow.

Not merely lack of funding, treating victims like abusers. Male victims are more likely to be arrested than the perpetrator, in large part because of feminist campaigning on the issue.

Whereas previously domestic violence was mostly ignored against women victims, and resulted in ridicule for men victims, feminist campaigning shifted us to the current state of affairs. The culpability for it lies with their movement.

The feminist conception of sexism has caused this man to have his capacity for empathy for those victims mutilated, to such an extent that he feels emotionally positive about it.

This is textbook for the effects of a hate movement.

In combination with the elitist nature of feminism and its reliance on abusing institutional authority to perpetuate itself and its policies against the will of the public, that's why many left wingers oppose it. It is anti-egalitarian, elitist, and reliant on censorship, misinformation, etc.

[Aillyria]

Oh really? Then what about this post below?


You sure do seem to relish the idea of white people being slaves, cause apparently the world would be better for it.

Hebrew hypocrisy.

Funny thing is, the minorities here in the States would probably just lump Jews in with whites and toss him to the gallows too. Also, we mixed folk would be on the chopping block in black communities for our white ancestry.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

So you're a walking stereotype for feminists?

News to me.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

So are you backpedaling now?

I was speaking personally and emotively. I feel morally culpable for the suffering of women, even though, as far as I know, I have not contributed to it. However, collectively, I do not believe in vengeance.

You are not morally culpable. If you are fine with the violation of the rights of yourself and others because you feel morally culpable for some original sin, you are being irresponsible at best and a self-loathing bigot at worst.