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Societal collapse of Oklahoma!

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Olthar
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Corporate Police State

Postby Olthar » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:33 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Petrasylvania wrote:So far, not a peep from self-professed libertarians.

Oklahoma: Spends way more than it takes in, eventually collapses due to insufficient income, a cornerstone of Libertarian policy holding that states need to slash spending in conjunction with slashing taxes

You: Lolbertarians amirite

???

But they are cutting spending. Didn't you read that they're not paying their teachers, cops, or prisons?

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Aillyria
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Aillyria » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:58 am

Sovaal wrote:Turns out you need money. But nice circle jerk here too.

It's funny to watch ridiculous ideologies fail, imho. Then the followers of said ideology have a brain hemorrhage trying to figure out why everything went to shit, just like the commies.
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Sovaal
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 am

Aillyria wrote:
Sovaal wrote:Turns out you need money. But nice circle jerk here too.

It's funny to watch ridiculous ideologies fail, imho. Then the followers of said ideology have a brain hemorrhage trying to figure out why everything went to shit, just like the commies.

I mean this is less shit ideologies then it is politicians not knowing how to prioitizing government spending, especially with less money. It can’t stay the same imho. Anyway, IMO the education system should always be among the last things to have budgets cut, epsically to such a degree.
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Irona
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Irona » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:10 am

Basically just shows what most sane people already know:

Private business doesn’t step up when the state redirects revenue via tax cuts.

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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:12 am

But, but muh freedom and muh taxes.

Seems that this doesnt works out.

Good riddance.

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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:13 am

Saiwania wrote:Are the results of the policies followed in Oklahoma, further evidence of a massive, catastrophic, colossal failure of the Republican party's economic platform?

:roll:
And is the societal collapse of Detroit, likewise, proof of failure for Democratic Party policies?

Obviously the solution is to disband not only both of those parties but also the "United States" itself, and install British colonial governors instead...
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:13 am

Nakena wrote:But, but muh freedom and muh taxes.

Seems that this doesnt works out.

Good riddance.

Except nothing got rid of.

Well except for money, but still.
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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:18 am

Surely the solution is another ballot initiative to overrule the previous one?
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Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

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Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:26 am

Irona wrote:Basically just shows what most sane people already know:

Private business doesn’t step up when the state redirects revenue via tax cuts.


But the free market is meant to solve all our problems and stuff.
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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:40 am

Vassenor wrote:
Irona wrote:Basically just shows what most sane people already know:

Private business doesn’t step up when the state redirects revenue via tax cuts.


But the free market is meant to solve all our problems and stuff.

Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again
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Dahon
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dahon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:45 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Petrasylvania wrote:So far, not a peep from self-professed libertarians.

Oklahoma: Spends way more than it takes in, eventually collapses due to insufficient income, a cornerstone of Libertarian policy holding that states need to slash spending in conjunction with slashing taxes

You: Lolbertarians amirite

???


Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?

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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:48 am

Dahon wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Oklahoma: Spends way more than it takes in, eventually collapses due to insufficient income, a cornerstone of Libertarian policy holding that states need to slash spending in conjunction with slashing taxes

You: Lolbertarians amirite

???


Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?


Well, that be when Oklahoma ends up flat broke and being foreclosed.

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Len Hyet
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:53 am

Dahon wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Oklahoma: Spends way more than it takes in, eventually collapses due to insufficient income, a cornerstone of Libertarian policy holding that states need to slash spending in conjunction with slashing taxes

You: Lolbertarians amirite

???


Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?

Oklahoma is fucked I'm not saying otherwise, I'm saying blaming a budget crisis on people who as a cornerstone of policy hold to balanced budgets is stupid.
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:00 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But the free market is meant to solve all our problems and stuff.

Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again


When the argument is that the government should withdraw service X because the free market will provide...
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Uiiop
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Uiiop » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But the free market is meant to solve all our problems and stuff.

Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again

Then i assume you have more info on this matter regrading private education, police, and prisons in the area? Because the apparent lack of response from the markets is exactly the issue here.
In short.

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Krasny-Volny
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Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Krasny-Volny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 am

I moved out to Oklahoma last year, so this hits pretty close to home. They do have a bit of a poverty and infrastructural problem, but that's an issue that seems limited largely to rural areas and smaller cities and towns, especially in the tribal nations. OKC and Tulsa are looking pretty good right now, Tulsa especially has had a facelift in the past decade or so that really improved things.

I think poverty is probably the number #1 problem that has to be addressed. Oklahoma was doing fine until the oil and gas industry started cutting jobs due to more efficient methods of shale production and a recent explosion of interest in renewable energy sources (OK has jumped to 15% renewable energy sources as of 2017 as opposed to practically zero percent in the early 2000s). Both of these trends really throttled the job market and unemployment rates skyrocketed. Poverty increased too.

Diversification would also help the state in the long run. I'd like to see OK become less dependent on the oil and gas industry in the future so this kind of radical fluctuation in the state's fortunes won't happen every time that industry changes.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 am

Olthar wrote:Clearly, the fault is that taxes are too high and are putting a stranglehold on private business. Lowering taxes will fix everything.

Hell why not just sell half the government to the private sector
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Krasny-Volny
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Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Krasny-Volny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:07 am

Dahon wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Oklahoma: Spends way more than it takes in, eventually collapses due to insufficient income, a cornerstone of Libertarian policy holding that states need to slash spending in conjunction with slashing taxes

You: Lolbertarians amirite

???


Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?


Corruption is also a big factor. In the '90s, Oklahoma used to be one of the most corrupt (if not the most corrupt) states in the US.

It's nowhere near that bad now, but it's still a visible problem in some areas and may increase again as a result of the recent developments.
Last edited by Krasny-Volny on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:08 am

Krasny-Volny wrote:
Dahon wrote:
Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?


Corruption is also a big factor. In the '90s, Oklahoma used to be one of the most corrupt (if not the most corrupt) states in the US.

More than Illinois and New York?
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Len Hyet
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Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Len Hyet » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 am

Vassenor wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again


When the argument is that the government should withdraw service X because the free market will provide...

No, the argument in point was that the Government's failure to budget is not the fault of the free market.

Uiiop wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again

Then i assume you have more info on this matter regrading private education, police, and prisons in the area? Because the apparent lack of response from the markets is exactly the issue here.
In short.

I assume you can point out where exactly it was anyone said that the answer to Oklahoma's problems was immediately shifting everything to the private sector?

Or rather, as I think you very well know, my point was simply that blaming the free market for Oklahoma's inability to govern is the same as blaming the Federal Government for Remington's bankruptcy. A non sequitur.
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Krasny-Volny
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Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Krasny-Volny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:13 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Krasny-Volny wrote:
Corruption is also a big factor. In the '90s, Oklahoma used to be one of the most corrupt (if not the most corrupt) states in the US.

More than Illinois and New York?


I had a professor who said OK had way more federal corruption investigations on the state level than any other state (including NY and Illinois) during the '90s.
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Thermodolia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:15 am

Krasny-Volny wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:More than Illinois and New York?


I had a professor who said OK had way more federal corruption investigations on the state level than any other state (including NY and Illinois) during the '90s.

Shit
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Uiiop
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uiiop » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:17 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Dahon wrote:
Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?

Oklahoma is fucked I'm not saying otherwise, I'm saying blaming a budget crisis on people who as a cornerstone of policy hold to balanced budgets is stupid.

Well the way you describe them it certainly sounds like the lawmakers who did this. But i guess incompetence doesn't factor in your eyes.
Len Hyet wrote:
Uiiop wrote:Then i assume you have more info on this matter regrading private education, police, and prisons in the area? Because the apparent lack of response from the markets is exactly the issue here.
In short.

I assume you can point out where exactly it was anyone said that the answer to Oklahoma's problems was immediately shifting everything to the private sector?

Or rather, as I think you very well know, my point was simply that blaming the free market for Oklahoma's inability to govern is the same as blaming the Federal Government for Remington's bankruptcy. A non sequitur.

True but that's because noone actually thought it's the markets fault for the government's stupid decision. It's just their guess as to why they did it that brought up the market.
I figured there's a misunderstanding.
Last edited by Uiiop on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:23 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But the free market is meant to solve all our problems and stuff.

Government: Fails

Damn free market at it again


Government: moves out of the way to let the free market take over various things.

Free market: does fuck all.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15451
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:24 am

Len Hyet wrote:
Dahon wrote:
Government offices are open four days a week. Teachers are leaving the state en masse. Prisons are having all kinds of shortages.

How much less government less spending do you want before you go oh shit?

Oklahoma is fucked I'm not saying otherwise, I'm saying blaming a budget crisis on people who as a cornerstone of policy hold to balanced budgets is stupid.


No, they hold as a cornerstone policy pursuing certain approaches that they claim will lead to a balanced budget. You are seeing the actual real-world results of those approaches in Oklahoma.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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