Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Cekoviu]

See, this is what I'm talking about. That makes absolutely no sense under any system of logic. As far as we know, this is the only universe, and it did begin at one point, so either God doesn't exist or there's some other explanation for his existence.
Anyway, I seem to have a bad habit of derailing this thread for various other subjects, so I'll stop turning it into a theosophical debate.

Do you mind discussing the issue in TG's?

I'm pretty terrible at debating in TG format, but I'm okay with that.

[Crysuko]

What about feudalism?

Feudalism is a system for coping with the breakdown of the state.

I thought that was fascism

[Al Hashka]

[The Parkus Empire]

Feudalism is a system for coping with the breakdown of the state.

I thought that was fascism

Uh, no. Fascism depends on an ultra strong, totalitarian state. Feudalism is predicated upon an extremely weak state.

[Crysuko]

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Not sure what you're getting at here

I thought that was fascism

Uh, no. Fascism depends on an ultra strong, totalitarian state. Feudalism is predicated upon an extremely weak state.

I beg to differ. Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism, and typically only come to power when the state is weak to begin with. That and there hasn't been a single fascist country in histroy that didn't end in disaster.

[The Parkus Empire]

I beg to differ. Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism

Then it is obviously not feudalism.

[The New Sea Territory]

No response on the Makhno stuff it seems.

Anyway, I've begun translating some of his essays. It's an interesting process. I might see if, over the next few months, I can put together a collection of either Makhnovist or broadly Russian anarchist essays.

Someone hasn't done that already?

Many of Makhno and the Makhnovist essays have been translated and published in English. Some haven't though, and those that have were published decades ago.

[Al Hashka]

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Not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm saying there's a difference between Left-Wing Nationalists like Michel Aflaq and Nazi scum Like Matthew Heimbach.

[El Hamidah]

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Some Nationalists are great. And the idea is attractive. But it's not very useful in the current climate.

The global social and ecological problems of this age require a global solution. Nationalism only cares about what happens within the borders of ones own nation, so how could it meaningfully and permanently change the world on it's own?

[El Hamidah]

No response on the Makhno stuff it seems.

Anyway, I've begun translating some of his essays. It's an interesting process. I might see if, over the next few months, I can put together a collection of either Makhnovist or broadly Russian anarchist essays.

Wonderful! Whose other essays besides Makhno's are you translating?

[The Grene Knyght]

No response on the Makhno stuff it seems.

Anyway, I've begun translating some of his essays. It's an interesting process. I might see if, over the next few months, I can put together a collection of either Makhnovist or broadly Russian anarchist essays.

Nice. I tried to get my hands on a copy of his memoirs, but despite the good fortune of having easy access to the biggest libraries in the country, I had no luck

[Dejanic]

Not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm saying there's a difference between Left-Wing Nationalists like Michel Aflaq and Nazi scum Like Matthew Heimbach.

A Nazi called Heimbach? Sorry that surname sounds Jewish as fuck lmao.

Is that guy in the 2nd picture this "Heimbach" because he doesn't look Germanic in the slightest.

[United Muscovite Nations]

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Please don't post Heimbach; he makes me cringe internally. Aflaq makes me happy though.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

He co-authored a book with John Milbank (an ultra Christian socialist who opposes secular theory).

Slavoj Žižek is willing to dialogue with almost anyone (even in cases where he seems to have no prior understanding of the other person's views). His dialogue with Julian Assange (available on YouTube) is an example. It was moderated by Democracy Now's Amy Goodman.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

I beg to differ. Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism, and typically only come to power when the state is weak to begin with. That and there hasn't been a single fascist country in histroy that didn't end in disaster.

Yes, even in quasi-fascist states, like the U.S., the state tends to weaken (as with the UN massively voting down the U.S. proposal to more the embassy to Jerusalem). Further decline often leads to more political repression.

[Al Hashka]

I'm saying there's a difference between Left-Wing Nationalists like Michel Aflaq and Nazi scum Like Matthew Heimbach.

A Nazi called Heimbach? Sorry that surname sounds Jewish as fuck lmao.

Is that guy in the 2nd picture this "Heimbach" because he doesn't look Germanic in the slightest.

Yes the guy in the Second picture is Heimbach, truly a perfect example of what the master race looks like.

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Please don't post Heimbach; he makes me cringe internally. Aflaq makes me happy though.

Heimbach is the literal definition of cringe, I mean look at this picture. Also Aflaq is one of the greatest people to ever live.

[Genivaria]

I beg to differ. Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism, and typically only come to power when the state is weak to begin with. That and there hasn't been a single fascist country in histroy that didn't end in disaster.

Yes, even in quasi-fascist states, like the U.S., the state tends to weaken (as with the UN massively voting down the U.S. proposal to more the embassy to Jerusalem). Further decline often leads to more political repression.

....Really?

[War Gears]

Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism,

No, it's not. Fascism in Italy had it's origins in irredentism and the takeover of the city of Fiume by the Italian poet Gabriele D'Annunzio, and proto-fascist movements had their roots in the height of French power, normally centered around a fusion of far-left and far-right political movements. Italy, Romania, Germany, or even semi-fascist Japan and Spain did not experience "decayed capitalism."

and typically only come to power when the state is weak to begin with.

The Italian state was not weakened, it was more in danger during the Fiume fiasco than it was with the March on Rome.

That and there hasn't been a single fascist country in histroy that didn't end in disaster.

> looks at anarchist track record.

I was right, you two are twin ideologies. You both fail miserably as well.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

....Really?

Yes, I anticipate further, perhaps accelerated, political repression in the U.S.

[War Gears]

even in quasi-fascist states, like the U.S.,

Stop bullshitting. Quasi-Fascist states such as Salazar's Portugal, Metaxas' Greece, etc. have nothing in common with the US in the slightest.

[Bakery Hill]

Fascism is the result of the toxic decay of capitalism,

No, it's not. Fascism in Italy had it's origins in irredentism and the takeover of the city of Fiume by the Italian poet Gabriele D'Annunzio, and proto-fascist movements had their roots in the height of French power, normally centered around a fusion of far-left and far-right political movements. Italy, Romania, Germany, or even semi-fascist Japan and Spain did not experience "decayed capitalism."

and typically only come to power when the state is weak to begin with.

The Italian state was not weakened, it was more in danger during the Fiume fiasco than it was with the March on Rome.

That and there hasn't been a single fascist country in histroy that didn't end in disaster.

> looks at anarchist track record.

I was right, you two are twin ideologies. You both fail miserably as well.

The rise of Fascism as a function in Italy, German and Spain stands up to the Trotskyist definition. It was only the intensification of class struggle and the rise of far left forces to mass support and then insurrection that saw fascism merge as a reaction. It was only the real and direct threat of expropriation seen in the Biennio Rosso, the German Revolution and Weimar's street battles, and the chaos emerging after the Popular Front's victory in 36 that lead the upper classes to fully abandon liberalism and throw their power behind the fascists.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Stop bullshitting. Quasi-Fascist states such as Salazar's Portugal, Metaxas' Greece, etc. have nothing in common with the US in the slightest.

I don't BS about such things. Have you read the recent literature on the subject in political sociology and political science?

[War Gears]

The rise of Fascism as a function in Italy, German and Spain stands up to the Trotskyist definition.

No, it doesn't, and don't make me laugh. Trotsky's class analysises of political and art movements reeks of someone better suited to be a pretentious college professor at the local community college than an actual political figure.

It was only the intensification of class struggle and the rise of far left forces to mass support and then insurrection that saw fascism merge as a reaction. It was only the real and direct threat of expropriation seen in the Biennio Rosso, the German Revolution and Weimar's street battles, and the chaos emerging after the Popular Front's victory in 36 that lead the upper classes to fully abandon liberalism and throw their power behind the fascists.

The Biennio Rosso had already decayed and died well before the March on Rome, the decision to placate the blackshirts had more to do with Victor Emmanuel worrying if his forces would fire on nationalist veterans than it did worry about the Reds. Italy becoming Fascist would only happen three years later after popular uproar at the death of a socialist senator who had been kidnapped and killed by Fascist hardliners, and Mussolini being given the ultimatum by his Rases to deal with the situation else they would deal with it.

Nazism suffered extreme setbacks during the twenties and was only able to obtain power in the thirties due to a lot of backroom maneuvering, not the fear of a Communist Revolution, which had been defeated by the good soc dems and was no longer a serious threat. Considering that Hitler still had to make numerous concessions to the upper classes, including purging the brownshirts, there's little reason to believe Trotsky's class analysis.

The Falangists in the thirties remained a small party which enjoyed little support, causing it's leaders to disassociate themselves from the label of "Fascism." it was only with Franco forcibly merging them with the other right-wing political organizations that they enjoyed any real support.

[Genivaria]

Stop bullshitting. Quasi-Fascist states such as Salazar's Portugal, Metaxas' Greece, etc. have nothing in common with the US in the slightest.

I don't BS about such things. Have you read the recent literature on the subject in political sociology and political science?

I have actually read Mein Kampf yes.
Trump is not Hitler, if you had to compare him to any historical figure he'd be closer to Caligula with his stupidity and arrogance.

[War Gears]

I don't BS about such things. Have you read the recent literature on the subject in political sociology and political science?

I have actually read Mein Kampf yes.
Trump is not Hitler, if you had to compare him to any historical figure he'd be closer to Caligula with his stupidity and arrogance.

That's unfair to Trump. Until he appoints Eric to the Supreme Court, you can't say he made a horse consul.