You get to draft the Constitution. How do you do it?

[Alvecia]

Restrict the scope of the 1st Amendment.
Scratch the 2nd Amd entirely.
Explicitly mention the death penalty as a form of cruel and unusual punishment, and thus outlawed, in the 6th Amd.
Remove the words "by jury" from the 7th, in both cases.

Remove the Electoral College.
Add the sentences "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights." and "Human dignity shall be inviolable."

Eww.

I thought of another one. Ban Europeans for messing with our constitution

1 amendment.

"Let it be known that henceforth these great states shall once again fall under the purview of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. God bless the Queen."

[Sovaal]

Restrict the scope of the 1st Amendment.
Scratch the 2nd Amd entirely.
Explicitly mention the death penalty as a form of cruel and unusual punishment, and thus outlawed, in the 6th Amd.
Remove the words "by jury" from the 7th, in both cases.

Remove the Electoral College.
Add the sentences "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights." and "Human dignity shall be inviolable."

Eww.

I thought of another one. Ban Europeans for messing with our constitution

This

[Ifreann]

Restrict the scope of the 1st Amendment.
Scratch the 2nd Amd entirely.
Explicitly mention the death penalty as a form of cruel and unusual punishment, and thus outlawed, in the 6th Amd.
Remove the words "by jury" from the 7th, in both cases.

Remove the Electoral College.
Add the sentences "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights." and "Human dignity shall be inviolable."

Eww.

I thought of another one. Ban Europeans for messing with our constitution

Who's going to write it, then?

[Sovaal]

Eww.

I thought of another one. Ban Europeans for messing with our constitution

Who's going to write it, then?

Well I don't think any of the founders where born in Europe.

And we could always have the gardener write what we tell him.

[Neutraligon]

I think that I would include ways to ensure that redistricting is non-partisan and would attempt to clarify the second amendment. I would see if the vote could be widened but that is unlikely.

[Omnonia]

1 amendment.

"Let it be known that henceforth these great states shall once again fall under the purview of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. God bless the Queen."

Honestly... looking at how things turned out, it could be a lot worse than the colonies remaining colonies.

I still think mine is better, though. Still an independent USA, just with its major failings removed from day one.

[Alvecia]

1 amendment.

"Let it be known that henceforth these great states shall once again fall under the purview of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. God bless the Queen."

Honestly... looking at how things turned out, it could be a lot worse than the colonies remaining colonies.

I still think mine is better, though. Still an independent USA, just with its major failings removed from day one.

Question.
How do Germans critique others?

[Sovaal]

Honestly... looking at how things turned out, it could be a lot worse than the colonies remaining colonies.

I still think mine is better, though. Still an independent USA, just with its major failings removed from day one.

Question.
How do Germans critique others?

By invading their countries

[Omnonia]

Question.
How do Germans critique others?

Simple - without resorting to insults. If you do not insult individuals (§185), nor communities of faith, confession, or worldview (§166), and refrain from inciting hatred or violence against any group (§130), you are still free to say any and all critique in Germany.

The idea that Germany didn't have freedom of speech is a lie, plain and simple. Propaganda spread by fundamentalist Libertarians, who don't understand (or don't care) how demagogic tyrannies are born from democracies too weak to defend themselves against them.

[Alvecia]

Question.
How do Germans critique others?

Simple - without resorting to insults. If you do not insult individuals (§185), nor communities of faith, confession, or worldview (§166), and refrain from inciting hatred or violence against any group (§130), you are still free to say any and all critique in Germany.

The idea that Germany didn't have freedom of speech is a lie, plain and simple. Propaganda spread by fundamentalist Libertarians, who don't understand (or don't care) how demagogic tyrannies are born from democracies too weak to defend themselves against them.

Insult is very subjective though. And prone to abuse.
What one might consider fair critique, another might consider insult. What do you do then?

Also suppose there's a controversial public figure that takes everyone to court who critiques them by claiming that they're being insulted. How do you work around that?

[Omnonia]

Insult is very subjective though. And prone to abuse.
What one might consider fair critique, another might consider insult. What do you do then?

Also suppose there's a controversial public figure that takes everyone to court who critiques them by claiming that they're being insulted. How do you work around that?

That's the job of judges to decide. Literally.

[Alvecia]

Insult is very subjective though. And prone to abuse.
What one might consider fair critique, another might consider insult. What do you do then?

Also suppose there's a controversial public figure that takes everyone to court who critiques them by claiming that they're being insulted. How do you work around that?

That's the job of judges to decide. Literally.

Sounds like being charged with Insult is something of a Russian Roulette depending on the judge you get.
Doesn't seem like a very sound judicial process.

Easy to abuse as well.

Kind of off putting for any one who wants to critique anyone. They run the risk of being arrested every time they point out a flaw. It'd be easier to just shut up and deal with it, even if someone is clearly in the wrong.

[Ifreann]

Honestly... looking at how things turned out, it could be a lot worse than the colonies remaining colonies.

I still think mine is better, though. Still an independent USA, just with its major failings removed from day one.

Question.
How do Germans critique others?

With long sentences you can't really understand until the last word.

[Omnonia]

Sounds like being charged with Insult is something of a Russian Roulette depending on the judge you get.
Doesn't seem like a very sound judicial process.

How on Earth would you imagine a "more sound" judicial process to work? That's how all jurisdiction works. And if you don't like the decision, you are free to appeal to a higher court.

Kind of off putting for any one who wants to critique anyone. They run the risk of being arrested every time they point out a flaw. It'd be easier to just shut up and deal with it, even if someone is clearly in the wrong.

Except that life in Germany is absolutely nothing like this strawman created by Libertarian propaganda. Germans criticize each other and ideas all the time. Legally.

It sounds to me like Americans just have some kind of cultural problem with imagining forms of criticism that go beyond kindergarten level name-calling. If you can't call the other side a brainless asshole... why, then arguing is totally pointless and impossible!

Hint: It's not. Look at Europe, and learn.

[Alvecia]

Sounds like being charged with Insult is something of a Russian Roulette depending on the judge you get.
Doesn't seem like a very sound judicial process.

How on Earth would you imagine a "more sound" judicial process to work? That's how all jurisdiction works. And if you don't like the decision, you are free to appeal to a higher court.

Perhaps, but at least they have legal definitions. Murder isn't quite as subjective as insult.

Kind of off putting for any one who wants to critique anyone. They run the risk of being arrested every time they point out a flaw. It'd be easier to just shut up and deal with it, even if someone is clearly in the wrong.

Except that life in Germany is absolutely nothing like this strawman created by Libertarian propaganda. Germans criticize each other and ideas all the time. Legally.

It sounds to me like Americans just have some kind of cultural problem with imagining forms of criticism that go beyond kindergarten level name-calling. If you can't call the other side a brainless asshole... why, then arguing is totally pointless and impossible!

Hint: It's not. Look at Europe, and learn.

I would imagine germans do critique people all the time, but it might not necessarily be legally, just that the offended party chose not to prosecute, as you pointed out in aother thread.
If someone did, they'd be very much able to stifle criticism, which was my point, it's not about being actually insulted.
Hell, you even had to re-legalise insulting foreign heads of state because Ergodan was attempting to stifle criticism of himself.

[Thermodolia]

They can elect the president, and they get some say in how things are run. People are happier when they think they have freedom.

Or we could just skip this whole thing, make GW king, and relegate the parties to a sham congress.

I thought OP was talking about now. Not back then. Oh well.

But I don't like monarchies

[Sovaal]

Or we could just skip this whole thing, make GW king, and relegate the parties to a sham congress.

I thought OP was talking about now. Not back then. Oh well.

But I don't like monarchies

>Doesn't like monarchies
>Wants life-presidents
k

[Thermodolia]

I thought OP was talking about now. Not back then. Oh well.

But I don't like monarchies

>Doesn't like monarchies
>Wants life-presidents
k

Elected life presidents. Think elected dictatorship

[Flowrisa]

My ideas would burn everything to the ground.

[Omnonia]

Perhaps, but at least they have legal definitions. Murder isn't quite as subjective as insult.

There are juristic definitions of the term insult:

Die Beleidigung ist in den §§ 185 ff. Strafgesetzbuch (StGB) geregelt. Sie ist die nach außen gerichtete Kundgabe der Nichtachtung oder Nichtbeachtung eines anderen.

Source
Translation (mine): Outward expression of disrespect or diregard of another person

Tathandlung ist die Kundgabe einer Tatsache oder eines Werturteils. Diese kann wörtlich, schriftlich, bildlich oder auch durch konkludente Handlungen erfolgen. Die Äußerung muss ehrverletzenden Inhalt besitzen.

Source
Translation (mine): Expression of a fact or judgement in value, which can happen in speech, writing, depiction, or concludent action; the expression has to be dishonoring in its content.

Interpreting this in context of any specific case is, as always with every law, literally the job of a judge.

I would imagine germans do critique people all the time, but it might not necessarily be legally, just that the offended party chose not to prosecute, as you pointed out in aother thread.

If someone did, they'd be very much able to stifle criticism, which was my point, it's not about being actually insulted.

Don't take a part for the whole. While that does, of course, happen, it's nonsensical to assume that this would be true in all, or even most cases. If you try to report me to the cops for e.g. saying "your argument is completely wrong, because it rests on assumption XYZ, which is verifiably untrue", and you try to pass that off as something insulting you - the cops will just try to send you home and tell you you have no chance of even reaching a judge with this, as any competent DA will simply refuse to prosecute in such cases.

Hell, you even had to re-legalise insulting foreign heads of state because Ergodan was attempting to stifle criticism of himself.

Correction. It's only the law specifically protecting foreign heads of state (§103), with a higher possible sentence than insulting "normal folks", that has - correctly, IMO - come under criticism. It's fully sufficient to make insults illegal in general, under §185.

For the record - I was very surprised that a court found Böhmermann innocent. Personally, I didn't side with him, and was all but certain he'd end up paying a fine, and be ordered to cease and desist repeating his poem in public.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Amendment 1: Shut the fuck up, heres your rights. (Lists all rights)
Amendment 2: We'll prolly add some more later
Amendment 3: Don't read billboards out loud as we pass them

[Sovaal]

>Doesn't like monarchies
>Wants life-presidents
k

Elected life presidents. Think elected dictatorship

Who would elect them? The populace? Hillary Clinton for life? The electoral college and get Trump for life?

[Sovaal]

Amendment 1: Shut the fuck up, heres your rights. (Lists all rights)
Amendment 2: We'll prolly add some more later
Amendment 3: Don't read billboards out loud as we pass them

I'll read all the billboards in the south I want too.
It goes a bit like this:
Adiult sex shop
Gunshop
Church
Rinse and repeat.

[Thermodolia]

Elected life presidents. Think elected dictatorship

Who would elect them? The populace? Hillary Clinton for life? The electoral college and get Trump for life?

The people. And Carter is still alive so...

[Internationalist Bastard]

Amendment 1: Shut the fuck up, heres your rights. (Lists all rights)
Amendment 2: We'll prolly add some more later
Amendment 3: Don't read billboards out loud as we pass them

I'll read all the billboards in the south I want too.
It goes a bit like this:
Adiult sex shop
Gunshop
Church
Rinse and repeat.

And Cracker Barrel, c'mon, have you been to the south?