Should School Attendance be Compulsory?

[Valgora]

I've lived it. You're right it's not pretty. I also lived my a mother who would put each kid into a metaphorical box if you will, my sister was the social butterfly, my brother was the physical one, I was the smart one. I didn't want to be the smart one I wanted to be the social butterfly but no that's not what I was according to my mom. It took me years to finally undo all of that and let loose

So your parents were insane and this discredits homeschooling? You do realize public schools are not exactly mythical places of sweetness and light, correct?

But it's were kids can learn about the real world better than being homeschooled.

[Bressen]

VAT/consumption tax is pretty nice. Any method of taxation that doesn't result in people being extorted/threatened with being thrown into a cage is fine by me.

1. VAT is incredibly regressive, hurts the poor far more than the rich and - by the by - if you fail to pay it (when you are self-employed) you go to jail pretty damn quickly. 2. And it is a lot easier to forget to pay it than it is to forget to pay normal taxes because (from what I understand) it's so fucking complicated to register, claim and organise.

VAT is evil. Its only saving grace is that it is not charged on books. And basic food (more or less).

Did nobody else heavily socialize as a kid outside of school?

Mostly with kids I met in school. Or church. Or music school (but that was mostly an extension of school).

1. No, I just said that the government doesn't need to exist for roads to exist.

3. Except the would only go where the rich people wanted them. With a government then they go where everyone wants them. 4. And they are funded by the people who use them - the drivers of the cars that use the roads. Which seems fair enough to me.

5. And on a more general point, which has very little to do with education being compulsory, but everything to do with why I am happy to pay taxes [...]

1. Good job I proposed a solution where the poorest people would be exempt from VAT then.
2. Then don't forget to pay it. Ideally, it'd be the only form of taxation so it's not to much to ask people to pay it.
3. No, they wouldn't; if people want a road going through X street to Y street, that's the demand. The budding road builder sees that demand, and notices he has the supply. The budding road builder builds his road, and everybody wins because guess what? They got a cool new road that they wanted.
4. And private roads wouldn't be funded only by the people that use them, such as through a toll booth?
5. Sorry to cut you off, but if you're willing to pay taxes in order to get certain services, why not just skip out the middleman of the government? If people want free healthcare, for example, why not just have a charity that provides free healthcare and then you can donate to that charity? It doesn't even have to be a charity, it can just be a collectivised fund that people can draw from to pay for their healthcare.

[Thermodolia]

I've lived it. You're right it's not pretty. I also lived my a mother who would put each kid into a metaphorical box if you will, my sister was the social butterfly, my brother was the physical one, I was the smart one. I didn't want to be the smart one I wanted to be the social butterfly but no that's not what I was according to my mom. It took me years to finally undo all of that and let loose

So your parents were insane and this discredits homeschooling? You do realize public schools are not exactly mythical places of sweetness and light, correct?

Anything would have been better than that shithole. I had to beg to go out to school, I child shouldn't have to do that.

And yes my view of homeschooling might be tainted because my parents where fucking nuts m, I don't want anyone else to go though with what I did

[San Lumen]

I've lived it. You're right it's not pretty. I also lived my a mother who would put each kid into a metaphorical box if you will, my sister was the social butterfly, my brother was the physical one, I was the smart one. I didn't want to be the smart one I wanted to be the social butterfly but no that's not what I was according to my mom. It took me years to finally undo all of that and let loose

So your parents were insane and this discredits homeschooling? You do realize public schools are not exactly mythical places of sweetness and light, correct?

Who said they were mystical places of sweetness and light? Are their problems? Yes. I have seen what homeschooling is like in places like rural Missouri. They are taught to be anti science among other things.

[Thermodolia]

So your parents were insane and this discredits homeschooling? You do realize public schools are not exactly mythical places of sweetness and light, correct?

Who said they were mystical places of sweetness and light? Are their problems? Yes. I have seen what homeschooling is like in places like rural Missouri. They are taught to be anti science among other things.

Thankfully I avoided that but not the rest of it. The homeschooling events where even worse, way to much religion in a fucking camping trip

[Jankau-Helmutsberg]

Not only should school be compulsory, there should be certain topics and subjects that are compulsory: from 1st grade to Ph.D should be classes taught on philosophy, arguments, fallacies, and theories. Critical thinking before all else. A smarter world is a better world. A lot of problems we have today wouldn't exist to nearly the extent they do if ignorance wasn't so prevalent. The curriculum should also make active efforts apply these same theories to tear apart apologetic arguments for religion. This part of the curriculum would be one of the few parts implemented for all 20+ years of schooling. A lot doesn't get done because of religion, and it's a toxic influence on society. The worst part is that the hindrance is based on faulty logic.

You dramatically overvalue the ability of critical thinking. The majority of jobs actually require skills, knowledge and experience, not philosophy and logic, for people to succeed and live a life of satisfaction. Not only would your education proposals be incredibly expensive and ignore totally the need for vocational education, but would also dehumanize the childhoods of children. We are kind of made to be dumb. We're happy with vanities. We require at least some ignorance and/or spirituality to stay sane. Radical empiricism has never led to happiness.

[Calladan]

1. VAT is incredibly regressive, hurts the poor far more than the rich and - by the by - if you fail to pay it (when you are self-employed) you go to jail pretty damn quickly. 2. And it is a lot easier to forget to pay it than it is to forget to pay normal taxes because (from what I understand) it's so fucking complicated to register, claim and organise.

VAT is evil. Its only saving grace is that it is not charged on books. And basic food (more or less).



Mostly with kids I met in school. Or church. Or music school (but that was mostly an extension of school).



3. Except the would only go where the rich people wanted them. With a government then they go where everyone wants them. 4. And they are funded by the people who use them - the drivers of the cars that use the roads. Which seems fair enough to me.

5. And on a more general point, which has very little to do with education being compulsory, but everything to do with why I am happy to pay taxes [...]

1. Good job I proposed a solution where the poorest people would be exempt from VAT then.

And how would that even work? You have a "poor card" to show at shops and you get discount food? You go to special "poor shops" that don't charge vat? Or you pay VAT then have to go through a long an complicated process to claim it back?

2. Then don't forget to pay it. Ideally, it'd be the only form of taxation so it's not to much to ask people to pay it.

You think people do it on purpose? Do you know what the word forget means???? FFS.

3. No, they wouldn't; if people want a road going through X street to Y street, that's the demand. The budding road builder sees that demand, and notices he has the supply. The budding road builder builds his road, and everybody wins because guess what? They got a cool new road that they wanted.
4. And private roads wouldn't be funded only by the people that use them, such as through a toll booth?

So along with not understanding the word "forget" you also don't understand the world of free enterprise either. Cable companies - companies that provide broadband - sometimes refuse to supply cable to houses that are more than around 5 or 6 miles from a main junction, because it is just too fucking costly. Now imagine someone wants a road to a town village is 100 miles away from anywhere. The village houses maybe 20 people, none of whom are all that rich. What moron of a road builder is going to do that contract, which is clearly going to be a loss?

But hey - a government can do it for a loss because they have a lot more money and a duty to ensure this village has at least one road in and out.

5. Sorry to cut you off, but if you're willing to pay taxes in order to get certain services, why not just skip out the middleman of the government? If people want free healthcare, for example, why not just have a charity that provides free healthcare and then you can donate to that charity? It doesn't even have to be a charity, it can just be a collectivised fund that people can draw from to pay for their healthcare.

That's what you took from that? That I want to pay for healthcare? I'm sorry, and I mean almost no disrespect by this, but you are a moron, and this is the last post of yours I am going to respond to, because I have better things to do than talk to you.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm surprised how you don't know this, Bressen, but our NHS (which is almost entirely *gasp* socialised!) provides vastly superior value for money than the US' totally private healthcare system. Ours also provides service to everyone, not to whoever can afford it, indebting everyone else, and providing highly subsidised care that's of a shit quality to those who can't even survive a hundred grand of debt for the privilege of not dying one time.

[Bressen]

1. Good job I proposed a solution where the poorest people would be exempt from VAT then.

1. And how would that even work? You have a "poor card" to show at shops and you get discount food? You go to special "poor shops" that don't charge vat? Or you pay VAT then have to go through a long an complicated process to claim it back?

2. Then don't forget to pay it. Ideally, it'd be the only form of taxation so it's not to much to ask people to pay it.

2. You think people do it on purpose? Do you know what the word forget means???? FFS.

3. No, they wouldn't; if people want a road going through X street to Y street, that's the demand. The budding road builder sees that demand, and notices he has the supply. The budding road builder builds his road, and everybody wins because guess what? They got a cool new road that they wanted.
4. And private roads wouldn't be funded only by the people that use them, such as through a toll booth?

3. So along with not understanding the word "forget" you also don't understand the world of free enterprise either. Cable companies - companies that provide broadband - sometimes refuse to supply cable to houses that are more than around 5 or 6 miles from a main junction, because it is just too fucking costly. Now imagine someone wants a road to a town village is 100 miles away from anywhere. The village houses maybe 20 people, none of whom are all that rich. What moron of a road builder is going to do that contract, which is clearly going to be a loss?

But hey - a government can do it for a loss because they have a lot more money and a duty to ensure this village has at least one road in and out.

5. Sorry to cut you off, but if you're willing to pay taxes in order to get certain services, why not just skip out the middleman of the government? If people want free healthcare, for example, why not just have a charity that provides free healthcare and then you can donate to that charity? It doesn't even have to be a charity, it can just be a collectivised fund that people can draw from to pay for their healthcare.

That's what you took from that? That I want to pay for healthcare? I'm sorry, and I mean almost no disrespect by this, but you are a moron, and this is the last post of yours I am going to respond to, because I have better things to do than talk to you.

1. I think calling it a ''poor card'' is just telling of how you'd view such a system of a piece of identification one can use to demonstrate they are below a certain income.
2. No, but the excuse ''I forgot'' is lackluster. Make measure to make sure you don't forget; set reminders, make post-it notes. It's not hard being organised.
3. There's a lot of imaging involved in that scenario. The end goal would to not have these imaginary isolated villages existing anyway, or at least not existing so far away from the mainland. Not to mention we already have road infrastructure that we can use; for once, the government would have laid out the foundations effectively.
5. So you don't want to pay for healthcare? That seems a bit selfish.

[Imperializt Russia]

1. I think calling it a ''poor card'' is just telling of how you'd view such a system of a piece of identification one can use to demonstrate they are below a certain income.

What, that we think it is a disgustingly demeaning concept?
I think that reflects fairly well on us, but whatever, we aren't ancaps.

[Claya]

Not only should school be compulsory, there should be certain topics and subjects that are compulsory: from 1st grade to Ph.D should be classes taught on philosophy, arguments, fallacies, and theories. Critical thinking before all else. A smarter world is a better world. A lot of problems we have today wouldn't exist to nearly the extent they do if ignorance wasn't so prevalent. The curriculum should also make active efforts apply these same theories to tear apart apologetic arguments for religion. This part of the curriculum would be one of the few parts implemented for all 20+ years of schooling. A lot doesn't get done because of religion, and it's a toxic influence on society. The worst part is that the hindrance is based on faulty logic.

Example A: Bob lives in a religious country. Tom lives in a secular country. Now, for the sake of argument let's assume these two countries hate each other and have embargoes placed on each other. Bob gets an infection. Bob loses a limb. Because that miracle scientist who would have made breakthroughs in stem cell research allowing bob to replace his limb was born in Bob's country, he (the miracle scientist) doesn't exist, and instead is a preacher. Therefore Bob walks around the rest of his working life with crutches, and because of the distrust in science in Bob's society he barely gets adequate treatment for his condition. He might as well have a prescription of prayer. Tom too gets an infection and loses a limb. But because Tom's country actually cares about science he has the medicine he needs to keep the pain away, in the meantime his country's scientists are working on stem cell research for a cure, which, for all we know, only didn't exist at that point because Bob's sh*tty country believed in false ideas based on ignorance, so now the weight of that research falls on the shoulders of the secular country's scientists.


You can argue that most likely the two countries won't be embargoed and bob could get the medicine he needs. But that's only because the secular country had come up with the medicine. If it wasn't for the secular country bob would be screwed. Instead of relying on secular societies to advance humanity, why not have all countries be secular, creating situations where those who would otherwise pray all day end up working in a field of science and adding to the brainpower of the international scientific community.

And do you know what can help with that? Good schooling. And you won't get there as quickly if some people are sitting around at home all day eating Doritos and reading hentai. Start small, train teachers to a certain standard. and then have those teachers train other teachers. Network to upgrade the quality of all the schools, if it's possible make quality teaching cheaper, and make up for lower pay with incentives and benefits that no one else gets to enjoy. Halve classroom sizes with this new army of qualified teachers by expanding the network and building far more schools and universities. Have enough classrooms while having smaller student bodies so that there's always enough available classes for anyone to attend. Wait-lists for classes need to become a thing of the past. Make sure there are enough schools that everyone can get an education while still only being in a student body of no more than 1,000 at the high school level. No more than, say, 5,000 for Universities. or however many students they need to keep costs below $500 a semester. They can fight the resulting rising costs of tuition by having smaller campuses with enough classrooms for everyone, and by having every other school offering the same thing. The university campus sizes will have limits as well, with the state subsidizing any need for facilities or extra space that would improve the quality of education.

All this, mandatory.

Every classroom must also have at least a TA:Student ratio of 3:1. so in a classroom of 15 students you have 5 TAs, who specialize in accommodating and adapting to students' different learning styles. How do you pay for this? Well, for one, in the US's case, federal funding. Two, also in the case of the US, cut spending on the military. Imagine if $800 billion somehow found its way into education and science. For damn sure these kinds of solutions would be a little more obvious to the politicians we have now, who would have been educated on a $800 billion budget.

Hooray! Even more boredom!

I've heard a lot about socializing in school, but I can tell you from experience that unless your in your half hour lunch class or its before school, socializing will get you a detention. At least in my experience.

[Bressen]

I'm surprised how you don't know this, Bressen, but our NHS (which is almost entirely *gasp* socialised!) provides vastly superior value for money than the US' totally private healthcare system. Ours also provides service to everyone, not to whoever can afford it, indebting everyone else, and providing highly subsidised care that's of a shit quality to those who can't even survive a hundred grand of debt for the privilege of not dying one time.

I'm well aware of the existence of the NHS, and I fully support privatising it to decrease costs. The US system has been royally fucked by the ACA, which is why their insurance premiums are so high in the first place.

But regardless, this topic isn't about healthcare. My main point for healthcare is that you don't need government to have freely available healthcare to everyone. Instead of people paying the government to fund the NHS, why not just voluntarily donate and fund the NHS? Everyone voluntarily chips in what they can, and takes out what they need - like a community fund on a national level.

[The V O I D]

Of course. Education isn't just a right, it is a necessity. Especially during this time period, where we have a POTUS who denies basic science.

[Bressen]

1. I think calling it a ''poor card'' is just telling of how you'd view such a system of a piece of identification one can use to demonstrate they are below a certain income.

What, that we think it is a disgustingly demeaning concept?
I think that reflects fairly well on us, but whatever, we aren't ancaps.

The fact you'd call it a poor card is itself disgusting, but apparently I'm the disgusting one for suggesting that we allow below a certain income bracket to be exempt from VAT?

I'm not an Ancap, lmao. Don't know where you got that impression from.

[Thermodolia]

I'm surprised how you don't know this, Bressen, but our NHS (which is almost entirely *gasp* socialised!) provides vastly superior value for money than the US' totally private healthcare system. Ours also provides service to everyone, not to whoever can afford it, indebting everyone else, and providing highly subsidised care that's of a shit quality to those who can't even survive a hundred grand of debt for the privilege of not dying one time.

I'm well aware of the existence of the NHS, and I fully support privatising it to decrease costs. The US system has been royally fucked by the ACA, which is why their insurance premiums are so high in the first place.

But regardless, this topic isn't about healthcare. My main point for healthcare is that you don't need government to have freely available healthcare to everyone. Instead of people paying the government to fund the NHS, why not just voluntarily donate and fund the NHS? Everyone voluntarily chips in what they can, and takes out what they need - like a community fund on a national level.

The US system was even worse BEFORE the ACA

[Bressen]

I'm well aware of the existence of the NHS, and I fully support privatising it to decrease costs. The US system has been royally fucked by the ACA, which is why their insurance premiums are so high in the first place.

But regardless, this topic isn't about healthcare. My main point for healthcare is that you don't need government to have freely available healthcare to everyone. Instead of people paying the government to fund the NHS, why not just voluntarily donate and fund the NHS? Everyone voluntarily chips in what they can, and takes out what they need - like a community fund on a national level.

The US system was even worse BEFORE the ACA

What do you mean worse? ACA increased insurance premiums substantially, which is what I'd define as worse.

[Zozon]

Not only should school be compulsory, there should be certain topics and subjects that are compulsory: from 1st grade to Ph.D should be classes taught on philosophy, arguments, fallacies, and theories. Critical thinking before all else. A smarter world is a better world. A lot of problems we have today wouldn't exist to nearly the extent they do if ignorance wasn't so prevalent. The curriculum should also make active efforts apply these same theories to tear apart apologetic arguments for religion. This part of the curriculum would be one of the few parts implemented for all 20+ years of schooling. A lot doesn't get done because of religion, and it's a toxic influence on society. The worst part is that the hindrance is based on faulty logic.

Example A: Bob lives in a religious country. Tom lives in a secular country. Now, for the sake of argument let's assume these two countries hate each other and have embargoes placed on each other. Bob gets an infection. Bob loses a limb. Because that miracle scientist who would have made breakthroughs in stem cell research allowing bob to replace his limb was born in Bob's country, he (the miracle scientist) doesn't exist, and instead is a preacher. Therefore Bob walks around the rest of his working life with crutches, and because of the distrust in science in Bob's society he barely gets adequate treatment for his condition. He might as well have a prescription of prayer. Tom too gets an infection and loses a limb. But because Tom's country actually cares about science he has the medicine he needs to keep the pain away, in the meantime his country's scientists are working on stem cell research for a cure, which, for all we know, only didn't exist at that point because Bob's sh*tty country believed in false ideas based on ignorance, so now the weight of that research falls on the shoulders of the secular country's scientists.


You can argue that most likely the two countries won't be embargoed and bob could get the medicine he needs. But that's only because the secular country had come up with the medicine. If it wasn't for the secular country bob would be screwed. Instead of relying on secular societies to advance humanity, why not have all countries be secular, creating situations where those who would otherwise pray all day end up working in a field of science and adding to the brainpower of the international scientific community.

And do you know what can help with that? Good schooling. And you won't get there as quickly if some people are sitting around at home all day eating Doritos and reading hentai. Start small, train teachers to a certain standard. and then have those teachers train other teachers. Network to upgrade the quality of all the schools, if it's possible make quality teaching cheaper, and make up for lower pay with incentives and benefits that no one else gets to enjoy. Halve classroom sizes with this new army of qualified teachers by expanding the network and building far more schools and universities. Have enough classrooms while having smaller student bodies so that there's always enough available classes for anyone to attend. Wait-lists for classes need to become a thing of the past. Make sure there are enough schools that everyone can get an education while still only being in a student body of no more than 1,000 at the high school level. No more than, say, 5,000 for Universities. or however many students they need to keep costs below $500 a semester. They can fight the resulting rising costs of tuition by having smaller campuses with enough classrooms for everyone, and by having every other school offering the same thing. The university campus sizes will have limits as well, with the state subsidizing any need for facilities or extra space that would improve the quality of education.

All this, mandatory.

Every classroom must also have at least a TA:Student ratio of 3:1. so in a classroom of 15 students you have 5 TAs, who specialize in accommodating and adapting to students' different learning styles. How do you pay for this? Well, for one, in the US's case, federal funding. Two, also in the case of the US, cut spending on the military. Imagine if $800 billion somehow found its way into education and science. For damn sure these kinds of solutions would be a little more obvious to the politicians we have now, who would have been educated on a $800 billion budget.

Hooray! Even more boredom!

I've heard a lot about socializing in school, but I can tell you from experience that unless your in your half hour lunch class or its before school, socializing will get you a detention. At least in my experience.

Then make learning interesting. There, problem solved.

[The V O I D]

Hooray! Even more boredom!

I've heard a lot about socializing in school, but I can tell you from experience that unless your in your half hour lunch class or its before school, socializing will get you a detention. At least in my experience.

Then make learning interesting. There, problem solved.

It's not learning that's boring, its teachers. I enjoy learning because my teachers are engaging and make the topics fun and interesting, as well as allowing us to socialize and work in groups.

Need to do this everywhere, make it fun for everyone. Of course, there's always going to be those people who prefer to work alone, so let them do that so you don't hurt their education because they end up feeling restricted by a group.

[Grand Viscovian Kingdom]

In the United States it is compulsory, we have to go from kindergarten till 12th grade, but I can say that, having graduated, that it does help people a lot.

[Thermodolia]

The US system was even worse BEFORE the ACA

What do you mean worse? ACA increased insurance premiums substantially, which is what I'd define as worse.

In the US insurance companies could deny your claim for any reason, after the ACA that changed and they couldn't do that. Also before the ACA if you had a pre existing condition you couldn't get health insurance. And actually depending on where you lived your insurance premiums dropped

[Thermodolia]

In the United States it is compulsory, we have to go from kindergarten till 12th grade, but I can say that, having graduated, that it does help people a lot.

Actually it depends on your state. In Georgia you only have to go till age 16 afterward it's up to you, though social norms dictate that one stay in school

[Zozon]

In the United States it is compulsory, we have to go from kindergarten till 12th grade, but I can say that, having graduated, that it does help people a lot.

Not compulsory enough. I live in the US too m8. College should be free and compulsory.

[The V O I D]

In the United States it is compulsory, we have to go from kindergarten till 12th grade, but I can say that, having graduated, that it does help people a lot.

Not compulsory enough. I live in the US too m8. College should be free and compulsory.

As I said before; education isn't just a right, it is a necessity. This way we don't end up with Presidents who deny science.

[Thermodolia]

In the United States it is compulsory, we have to go from kindergarten till 12th grade, but I can say that, having graduated, that it does help people a lot.

Not compulsory enough. I live in the US too m8. College should be free and compulsory.

Free maybe, compulsory fuck no. I don't want to go to college.

[Zozon]

Then make learning interesting. There, problem solved.

It's not learning that's boring, its teachers. I enjoy learning because my teachers are engaging and make the topics fun and interesting, as well as allowing us to socialize and work in groups.

Need to do this everywhere, make it fun for everyone. Of course, there's always going to be those people who prefer to work alone, so let them do that so you don't hurt their education because they end up feeling restricted by a group.

Why do you think I mentioned the TA's accommodating different student's learning styles? I know. I was one of those students whose learning style didn't fit the learning styles the schools were structured for.