Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[Eastern Equestria]

Lincolns greatest crime was not putting more former southern officers to the gallows post-war

I'm not trying to defend Confederate sympathizers (or those who misguidedly believe that the battle flag only symbolizes Southern pride), but burning their symbol accomplishes absolutely nothing. It certainly won't convince them of the err of their beliefs. If anything, such acts only serve to stir unecessary animosity and resentment. Is that what we really want? To make them feel vindicated?

you're absolutely right
instead of burning symbols, we should burn Atlanta.

That's been done once, already. There's no need to do it again.

[New Grestin]

Nazis were responsible for the pioneering of modern rocketry and advancing of medicine. Maybe we should raise their flag in order to honor those scientific achievements. I mean, it was a part of history and all.

Godwin's Law is in effect people.

Here we go again!

[Tayner]

So you have no actual argument at this point and are just nitpicking insignificant details? OK.

Yes because I already displayed my argument, and all you need for an argument Is "It is a racist symbol and started the bloodiest war in American history." Although I belive that is not a racist symbol. It is a symbol of people who stood up for what they belive in, no matter how treacherous it was. Now, I don't support racism, but when a symbol that has next to nothing to do with racism is labeled racist, I disagree.

[Ordealius]

Nazis were responsible for the pioneering of modern rocketry and advancing of medicine. Maybe we should raise their flag in order to honor those scientific achievements. I mean, it was a part of history and all.

Godwin's Law is in effect people.

Here we go again!

lol Sorry. I thought I already saw a Nazi comparison so it was safe.

[Justin States]

Yes, take it down.

It should be removed, because the Confederate flag resembles hate, and besides. Why would you have a Confederate Flag at a US Memorial?

I don't know, maybe it's because both sides lost American lives.
Why even bother posting?

Because I wanted to say something about the topic. So why are you posting on the thread?

[Napkiraly]

Those who fought for the Confederacy had no honor and deserve no memorial.

Yeah because lets forget the fact both sides were utterly terrible in multiple ways. It was one branch of cultural institutions fighting another over what was essentially a "my ego is bigger" conflict. Guess who for the most part died?

Immigrants, the poor, civilians caught in the crossfire, and the poor bastards who wanted their own version of either the American/Confederate dream. Besides you in no way can provide a source declaring that everyone who fought for the Confederacy had no "honor".

Shit tons of Confederate generals had honor. Lee, Jackson, Armistead, etc. Of course there were those who were assholes, but it was the same situation for the Union as well.

Anyway, the decision of the state government. "It doesn't represent racism to me" sure as shit does to tens of millions however.

[Alpha and Omega AquilaJordyn 012]

So you have no actual argument at this point and are just nitpicking insignificant details? OK.

Yes because I already displayed my argument, and all you need for an argument Is "It is a racist symbol and started the bloodiest war in American history." Although I belive that is not a racist symbol. It is a symbol of people who stood up for what they belive in, no matter how treacherous it was. Now, I don't support racism, but when a symbol that has next to nothing to do with racism is labeled racist, I disagree.

I suppose its valid to call it honorable to stand up for what you believe. Doesn't make what you believe moral, and while many factors led to the revolt, the tipping point was Slavery. Abraham lincoln told Harriet beecher stowe (who wrote the enormously popular uncle tom's cabin, a book about the life of a slave, namely uncle Tom) she had caused the war. The confederate flag within of itself does not have any thing to do with racism. But it represents the Confederate states of America, which, most certainly did. Because those men fought for the csa, which stood for slavery. It was one of the few things all the rebel states agreed upon.

[Neu California]

So you have no actual argument at this point and are just nitpicking insignificant details? OK.

Yes because I already displayed my argument, and all you need for an argument Is "It is a racist symbol and started the bloodiest war in American history." Although I belive that is not a racist symbol. It is a symbol of people who stood up for what they belive in, no matter how treacherous it was. Now, I don't support racism, but when a symbol that has next to nothing to do with racism is labeled racist, I disagree.

As my counterargument, let me quote Confederate VP Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, a few weeks before the start of the civil war

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition"

So, yeah, they were fighting for what they believed in, which just happened to be the racial inferiority of the blacks, and the idea that they should be kept in chains.

Heck, give the entire speech a read here

[Kubra]

So you have no actual argument at this point and are just nitpicking insignificant details? OK.

Yes because I already displayed my argument, and all you need for an argument Is "It is a racist symbol and started the bloodiest war in American history." Although I belive that is not a racist symbol. It is a symbol of people who stood up for what they belive in, no matter how treacherous it was. Now, I don't support racism, but when a symbol that has next to nothing to do with racism is labeled racist, I disagree.

And they believed in slavery
they stood up for what they believed in
you
know
slavery

[Heartlost]

I don't know, maybe it's because both sides lost American lives.
Why even bother posting?

Except one side was for the horrible treatment of African Amaericans.

Ya, good one, go tell ISIS not to mourn there dead.
Is this even an argument?
I hope you never figure out the union side had racist too friend.
I'm dying right now.

[Heartlost]

I don't know, maybe it's because both sides lost American lives.
Why even bother posting?

Because I wanted to say something about the topic. So why are you posting on the thread?

Oh, I should have been clearer, why should I bother replying to your ignorance?
What can you offer to a conversation you know nothing about?

[The Templar High Council]

Ooh, now how to respond to this and not get warned?

I live in Charleston. Like 6 minutes from downtown, where the shootings happened. I heard about it all, it was on every news channel and on the cover of every paper. My parents told me not to go downtown if I could avoid it, because it would take me longer to get through the traffic than it would to go the long way around the peninsula.

I see that both sides have merit. Some people hate the flag because they believe it represents slavery and hatred. Some respect the flag because their ancestors fought in the war, or some other reason, and they believe it's a piece of history. Me personally? I see it as history. You can't erase what happened. No one's going to forget the awful treatment of slaves in the South. But is it any better to forget it all? It's kind of an overused quote, but "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." If we erase all history of the Civil War from the records, what's to prevent a similar occurrence from happening in the future? Heck, what's to prevent it from happening even as we remember?

Humanity learns from its mistakes. We grow through failure. The history of the Confederate South is a mistake, and one that no one ought to see repeated. But if we don't know what happened, how can we know what to look out for? That's why history is kept. The ugliest moments recorded for future generations, so we can learn from what happened.

A response will probably be "We don't need the flag to remember." Yes, you're right. But you also don't need the flag gone to forget. Someone said earlier here that it honors the dead. Someone else said that they deserve no honor. How can one decide what someone else is worth? Deciding someone's worth... that's something slave owners do. It's barbaric. Does that mean if any man judges another, he should not be honored in death, regardless of his accomplishments in life? Of course not. Everyone deserves the chance to be respected. Whether what they did was right or wrong in today's eyes, they fought for what was right. US soldiers killed thousands of civilians in Vietnam and Korea, yet they have memorials in our nation's capital. These men killed their fellow countrymen, men on both sides of the war, who's to say either is unworthy of respect?

[Lockdownn]

Except one side was for the horrible treatment of African Amaericans.

Ya, good one, go tell ISIS not to mourn there dead.
Is this even an argument?
I hope you never figure out the union side had racist too friend.
I'm dying right now.

Does the U.S fly I.S.I.S flags on government buildings? No, so your point is?

Both sides "had racist" one of them were fighting for "racist".

[Tayner]

Yes because I already displayed my argument, and all you need for an argument Is "It is a racist symbol and started the bloodiest war in American history." Although I belive that is not a racist symbol. It is a symbol of people who stood up for what they belive in, no matter how treacherous it was. Now, I don't support racism, but when a symbol that has next to nothing to do with racism is labeled racist, I disagree.

As my counterargument, let me quote Confederate VP Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, a few weeks before the start of the civil war

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition"

So, yeah, they were fighting for what they believed in, which just happened to be the racial inferiority of the blacks, and the idea that they should be kept in chains.

Heck, give the entire speech a read here

How does what he said have anything to do with the flag being racist, I mean, if anything it would mean that this flag would be racist.

[Benuty]

Lincolns greatest crime was not putting more former southern officers to the gallows post-war

I'm not trying to defend Confederate sympathizers (or those who misguidedly believe that the battle flag only symbolizes Southern pride), but burning their symbol accomplishes absolutely nothing. It certainly won't convince them of the err of their beliefs. If anything, such acts only serve to stir unecessary animosity and resentment. Is that what we really want? To make them feel vindicated?

you're absolutely right
instead of burning symbols, we should burn Atlanta.

Given their opinion on how the post war South should have been treated the very act of what you are describing would have worsened things more so than they already were. Besides given Lincolns death it is unlikely Johnson is going to lynch the people from the south.

[Kubra]

As my counterargument, let me quote Confederate VP Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, a few weeks before the start of the civil war

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition"

So, yeah, they were fighting for what they believed in, which just happened to be the racial inferiority of the blacks, and the idea that they should be kept in chains.

Heck, give the entire speech a read here

How does what he said have anything to do with the flag being racist, I mean, if anything it would mean that this flag would be racist.

because the confederacy was a confederation of slave states. That kinda makes a flag racist.
and yeah, that flag is str8 up racist as a result

[Benuty]

Lincolns greatest crime was not putting more former southern officers to the gallows post-war

you're absolutely right
instead of burning symbols, we should burn Atlanta.

That's been done once, already. There's no need to do it again.

Besides the fact they would be charged with crimes against humanity for killing nearly 450,000 people.

[The Danish Confederacy]

How does what he said have anything to do with the flag being racist, I mean, if anything it would mean that this flag would be racist.

because the confederacy was a confederation of slave states. That kinda makes a flag racist.
and yeah, that flag is str8 up racist as a result

The flag did nothing. The people did. Don't punsih the flag, nor punish modern day southerners. It was simply the people.

[Kubra]

Lincolns greatest crime was not putting more former southern officers to the gallows post-war

you're absolutely right
instead of burning symbols, we should burn Atlanta.

Given their opinion on how the post war South should have been treated the very act of what you are describing would have worsened things more so than they already were. Besides given Lincolns death it is unlikely Johnson is going to lynch the people from the south.

not the whole south, don't be silly, that's horrible
just its officers
besides, the war was over long before Lee's surrender, plenty of time to order a hanging or two.

because the confederacy was a confederation of slave states. That kinda makes a flag racist.
and yeah, that flag is str8 up racist as a result

The flag did nothing. The people did. Don't punsih the flag, nor punish modern day southerners. It was simply the people.

if the flag is so arbitrary to you, why bother flying it in the first place?

[Tayner]

How does what he said have anything to do with the flag being racist, I mean, if anything it would mean that this flag would be racist.

because the confederacy was a confederation of slave states. That kinda makes a flag racist.
and yeah, that flag is str8 up racist as a result

The Confederacy was a confederation of states who stood up for what they belived in. I don't support racism, but you can't judge a nation harshly for what they were raised believing. Even Lincoln said that. For if you were raised under the same circumstances, what would you believe?

[Benuty]

Given their opinion on how the post war South should have been treated the very act of what you are describing would have worsened things more so than they already were. Besides given Lincolns death it is unlikely Johnson is going to lynch the people from the south.

not the whole south, don't be silly
just its officers

If they did execute officers it would only ones from the planter aristocracy given their intense hatred of the aristocracy in the South. They being from a non wealthy background would probably pardon all the non-planter officers on the spot (if I recall they did in real life). Probably the only time the majority of southern whites supported a republican during the Reconstruction era (Harris doesn't count since agreements aren't support).

[Kubra]

because the confederacy was a confederation of slave states. That kinda makes a flag racist.
and yeah, that flag is str8 up racist as a result

The Confederacy was a confederation of states who stood up for what they belived in. I don't support racism, but you can't judge a nation harshly for what they were raised believing. Even Lincoln said that. For if you were raised under the same circumstances, what would you believe?

and as I said
they believed
in slavery
sry but upbringing can be used to explain everything that's done that we don't like: french chauvanism, prussian militarism, peasant backwardness, and so on. Don't mean we can't judge, man.
and I don't wish to be deprived of snarky internet judgement, so I'll stick with such.

[Heartlost]

Ya, good one, go tell ISIS not to mourn there dead.
Is this even an argument?
I hope you never figure out the union side had racist too friend.
I'm dying right now.

Does the U.S fly I.S.I.S flags on government buildings? No, so your point is?

Both sides "had racist" one of them were fighting for "racist".

OMFG Is this pleb for real? Mate, I can't even breath right now.
Never heard of Iraq or Syria I guess. Quite a few people flying that flag now n days.

I also think you mean "slavery".

[Neu California]

As my counterargument, let me quote Confederate VP Alexander Stephens' Cornerstone Speech, a few weeks before the start of the civil war

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition"

So, yeah, they were fighting for what they believed in, which just happened to be the racial inferiority of the blacks, and the idea that they should be kept in chains.

Heck, give the entire speech a read here

How does what he said have anything to do with the flag being racist, I mean, if anything it would mean that this flag would be racist.

The flag is the symbol of the confederacy for most people, and the confederacy held that blacks were inferior to whites and deserved to be in chains as one of their core tenants (as demonstrated with Stephens' speech), so, by extension, the flag represents those beliefs. It's really not that hard

[The Danish Confederacy]

Given their opinion on how the post war South should have been treated the very act of what you are describing would have worsened things more so than they already were. Besides given Lincolns death it is unlikely Johnson is going to lynch the people from the south.

not the whole south, don't be silly, that's horrible
just its officers
besides, the war was over long before Lee's surrender, plenty of time to order a hanging or two.

The flag did nothing. The people did. Don't punsih the flag, nor punish modern day southerners. It was simply the people.

if the flag is so arbitrary to you, why bother flying it in the first place?

It isn't arbitrary. If people want to fly a damn flag, let them do so.