Japan passes Largest-Ever Defense Budget

[The Conez Imperium]

Germany has a strong fighting force?

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Thing about tanks is in the modern battlefield, ATGMs rule supreme. Tanks can't do much these days if Infantry are equipped with the ability to seriously damage tanks now.

[Teemant]

Germany has a strong fighting force?

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

But care to look behind the total numbers

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bundeswehr-erfuellt-nato-anforderungen-laut-spiegel-derzeit-nicht-a-994079.html#ref=plista

In this article you can see a table.

I make this easier for you so you can understand the table or for anyone who can't understand German.

Waffensystem - weapon system
Gesamtbestand - total units (in this case)
verfügbar - available
einsatzberait - ready to use

As you can see they have huge amount of tech that can't be used. Out of 109 eurofighters only 42 can be used.

[Baltenstein]

Germany has a strong fighting force?

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Right now, the Bundeswehr is in a pretty sorry state:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 94607.html

[Scyobayrynn]

Japan is getting over the WWII guilt complex which is good. If China does something stupid Japan should punish them.

"getting over" they never really had it to begin with

Kind of my point.

The Germans had a guilt complex for wanting to murder half the world.

Nippon didnt even suffer a bad reputation.

So seeing the people who really just smiled and said "Oh hey, sorry about trying to end you", just get to start picking up their stuff again...nope not real enthused. Should another of my enemies decide to lay into them, good.

Because frankly I cant tell you the last time a Chinese guy tortured, or killed a member of my family.

The same can not be said for the, home of the Great Asian Democracy! Hoooorah!

[The Conez Imperium]

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Right now, the Bundeswehr is in a pretty sorry state:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 94607.html

They had quite the military in the 80's with the threat of USSR armor rolling across the Rhine lowlands of the Fulda gap.

[Teemant]

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Right now, the Bundeswehr is in a pretty sorry state:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 94607.html

I never knew there was a english version of this article. F*ck. I spent a lot of time reading german version (I'm not very good at it).

[Imperializt Russia]

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Thing about tanks is in the modern battlefield, ATGMs rule supreme. Tanks can't do much these days if Infantry are equipped with the ability to seriously damage tanks now.

Under this new (as of 1929) thing called "combined arms", no two elements of military equipment will "1v1 me irl".

Battle tanks, artillery pieces, ATGM groups, infantry regiments, IFVs, combat aircraft, attack helicopters and reconnaissance elements will all act in concert to protect each other through suppression and interdiction, and outright killing the enemy.

The ATGM does not "reign supreme". It is a potent piece of equipment on the mechanised battlefield. It has been for almost half a century. It does not negate the tank. On any level. Especially not modern tanks on either side of the former Iron Curtain, all of whom are protected in their base armour and add-on systems to protect against ATGM threats.
Because someone thought it might be a priority to protect against threats.
Who knew?

Addendum, any tank unit that blunders right into an ATGM team anyway deserves to be killed for their commander's lack of due diligence.

[Scyobayrynn]

Right now, the Bundeswehr is in a pretty sorry state:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 94607.html

They had quite the military in the 80's with the threat of USSR armor rolling across the Rhine lowlands of the Fulda gap.

MIlitary experts calculated West Germany would last-- Minutes.

So not sure what Military youre talking about.

[Baltenstein]

"getting over" they never really had it to begin with

Kind of my point.

The Germans had a guilt complex for wanting to murder half the world.

Nippon didnt even suffer a bad reputation.

So seeing the people who really just smiled and said "Oh hey, sorry about trying to end you", just get to start picking up their stuff again...nope not real enthused. Should another of my enemies decide to lay into them, good.

Because frankly I cant tell you the last time a Chinese guy tortured, or killed a member of my family.

The same can not be said for the, home of the Great Asian Democracy! Hoooorah!

I'm pretty sure American soldiers were tortured and/or killed by Chinese guys in the Korean war, and quite possibly also in the Vietnam war.

[Imperializt Russia]

Second largest not-Russian tank force in Europe? I think the Poles actually have more serviceable tanks than the Russians do.
Wiki claims it to be the "fourth largest air force in Europe after the UK, France and Italy", yet it maintains about the same number of combat aircraft (Typhoons and Tornadoes) as the RAF. Germany is also home to American B-61 nuclear gravity bombs for delivery by USAF and Luftwaffe aircraft.

It's also the home of the Leopard 2, one of the most capable modern western battle tanks. The German tank concern Krauss-Maffei recently merged with French company Nexter (formerly GIAT - the French tank concern, constructor of the Leclerc, another of the west's most capable battle tanks) and is considering an all-new Leopard 3 tank design process.

Right now, the Bundeswehr is in a pretty sorry state:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 94607.html

I didn't realise taking aircraft out of rotation for maintenance and repair, a completely ordinary process in an air force represented a "sorry state" on its part.

[Risottia]

So, what do you think NSG? A bad idea with Japan's slight fall in economic size?

Good idea. When your economy drops, blow more money on expensive public programs which do not better your infrastructures or your education level, but rely massively on procurements from foreign companies!

Wanna some FREMM frigates and U-212 subs, Japan?
*runs off to buy some Fincantieri and Oto-Melara shares*

[Imperializt Russia]

They had quite the military in the 80's with the threat of USSR armor rolling across the Rhine lowlands of the Fulda gap.

MIlitary experts calculated West Germany would last-- Minutes.

So not sure what Military youre talking about.

Up until the mid-sixties, this was true. Mostly because the only available solution was to nuke the entire Warsaw Pact frontline. Which would have been this arbitrary zone called "West Germany".
By the 1970s and definitely by the mid-late 1980s, when war in Europe was at its most likely, the strategy had changed because the balance of European power had changed.

[The Conez Imperium]

They had quite the military in the 80's with the threat of USSR armor rolling across the Rhine lowlands of the Fulda gap.

MIlitary experts calculated West Germany would last-- Minutes.

So not sure what Military youre talking about.

Well compared to now. In the 80's military R&D along with outfighting was at a highpoint.

The newly created Leopard's 2 were being deployed.
The newly created Panavia Tornado were also being deployed.
IIRC the Mader 1A3's were being upgraded with Milan 2 ATGMs, giving mechanised infantry a significant edge.
Roland surface to air missiles were just being deployed.


Of course none of that is going to stop a rolling mass of armor straight to Berlin.

[Imperializt Russia]

MIlitary experts calculated West Germany would last-- Minutes.

So not sure what Military youre talking about.

Well compared to now. In the 80's military R&D along with outfighting was at a highpoint.

The newly created Leopard's 2 were being deployed.
The newly created Panavia Tornado were also being deployed.
IIRC the Mader 1A3's were being upgraded with Milan 2 ATGMs, giving mechanised infantry a significant edge

Of course none of that is going to stop a rolling mass of armor straight to Berlin.

This is why NATO was a thing and the B-61 was deployed throughout Europe.
Also hundreds of foreign tanks stationed in West Germany.

[Reddogkeno101]

Oh Japan, our friends across the Pacific... what shall we do about you this time. If it truly is the largest 'defence' budget they have ever had, taking into account inflation and all, then ladies and gents, we are in some serious strife. As someone's pointed out, they don't seem to remember the otherwise infamous 'Rape of Nanking'. I mean the Germans are very much sorry about WW2 and the mass murders including the holocaust and murders of other enemies of the state, and the Germans are very much preventing a repeat with Merkel taking part in a Muslim march against Pegida and for Je Suis Charlie. Japan on the other hand, well our good friend Shinzo Abe is being Shinzo Abe and has repealed that whole 'Self-defence forces' clause, preventing Japan from sending troops off their soil; something they are very much not ready to do if they can't seem to remember the Rape of Nanking, or even acknowledge it happened. And now, we've got the largest ever defence budget. Shinzo Abe has some serious explaining to do, because if he can exceed even WW2 budgets, then he is gearing for war.

[Saiwania]

I dont know, but if it get shooty over their Im cheering for the Chinese.
Never was a friend to Nippon.
But hey, I hold a grudge.

I pretty much mirror your sentiments, only I'm on the opposite side. I'm all in favor of Japan becoming a military power once again. The Japanese are quite simply, magnificent. This can only be a good thing now that things are different.

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh Japan, our friends across the Pacific... what shall we do about you this time. If it truly is the largest 'defence' budget they have ever had, taking into account inflation and all, then ladies and gents, we are in some serious strife. As someone's pointed out, they don't seem to remember the otherwise infamous 'Rape of Nanking'. I mean the Germans are very much sorry about WW2 and the mass murders including the holocaust and murders of other enemies of the state, and the Germans are very much preventing a repeat with Merkel taking part in a Muslim march against Pegida and for Je Suis Charlie. Japan on the other hand, well our good friend Shinzo Abe is being Shinzo Abe and has repealed that whole 'Self-defence forces' clause, preventing Japan from sending troops off their soil; something they are very much not ready to do if they can't seem to remember the Rape of Nanking, or even acknowledge it happened. And now, we've got the largest ever defence budget. Shinzo Abe has some serious explaining to do, because if he can exceed even WW2 budgets, then he is gearing for war.

It is the largest "absolute figure" spent.
It either does not adjust previous figures for inflation, or does not include the IJA in this assessment.
Either is for decent enough reason.

[The Huskar Social Union]

And so it begins..

Sorry could not resist posting that, anyway interesting news but i dont think now is the right time to beef up your military spending when you are facing economic issues.

[Reddogkeno101]

Oh Japan, our friends across the Pacific... what shall we do about you this time. If it truly is the largest 'defence' budget they have ever had, taking into account inflation and all, then ladies and gents, we are in some serious strife. As someone's pointed out, they don't seem to remember the otherwise infamous 'Rape of Nanking'. I mean the Germans are very much sorry about WW2 and the mass murders including the holocaust and murders of other enemies of the state, and the Germans are very much preventing a repeat with Merkel taking part in a Muslim march against Pegida and for Je Suis Charlie. Japan on the other hand, well our good friend Shinzo Abe is being Shinzo Abe and has repealed that whole 'Self-defence forces' clause, preventing Japan from sending troops off their soil; something they are very much not ready to do if they can't seem to remember the Rape of Nanking, or even acknowledge it happened. And now, we've got the largest ever defence budget. Shinzo Abe has some serious explaining to do, because if he can exceed even WW2 budgets, then he is gearing for war.

It is the largest "absolute figure" spent.
It either does not adjust previous figures for inflation, or does not include the IJA in this assessment.
Either is for decent enough reason.

Well considering the Yen is basically worthless, it wouldn't be particularly concerning, but that leaves out the fact that it's Abe and, well the whole removing the self-defence forces clause thingy.

[Cannabiland]

Japan should give the land back.

[Imperializt Russia]

It wasn't removed, it was re-interpreted.

This new interpretation of the same, unchanged clause allows Japan - itself under direct military threat from North Korea and China, to intervene directly in a conflict on behalf of South Korea, in the event of a second Peninsula war, or potentially Taiwan, in event of China suddenly finding amphibious capability to do so.

[Reddogkeno101]

It wasn't removed, it was re-interpreted.

This new interpretation of the same, unchanged clause allows Japan - itself under direct military threat from North Korea and China, to intervene directly in a conflict on behalf of South Korea, in the event of a second Peninsula war, or potentially Taiwan, in event of China suddenly finding amphibious capability to do so.

That wouldn't be concerning also, except could that not be used to say, if they claimed they were under direct military threat from any of above, they could start a war as aggressor?

[Imperializt Russia]

It wasn't removed, it was re-interpreted.

This new interpretation of the same, unchanged clause allows Japan - itself under direct military threat from North Korea and China, to intervene directly in a conflict on behalf of South Korea, in the event of a second Peninsula war, or potentially Taiwan, in event of China suddenly finding amphibious capability to do so.

That wouldn't be concerning also, except could that not be used to say, if they claimed they were under direct military threat from any of above, they could start a war as aggressor?

I don't believe so, but I suppose it's possible.
It would be ludicrously unwise to do so, however.

[Uxupox]

Japan should give the land back.

What land?

[Reddogkeno101]

That wouldn't be concerning also, except could that not be used to say, if they claimed they were under direct military threat from any of above, they could start a war as aggressor?

I don't believe so, but I suppose it's possible.
It would be ludicrously unwise to do so, however.

True. But I just hope we don't see a whole mini-Cold War between China and Japan, because their relations are already chilly. The Japanese should however acknowledge what happened at Nanking, because if you do not learn from the past, then the same mistakes will be made.