Poppy seller burned

[Greed and Death]

Out of spite against Remembrance Day or not, who the fuck sprays fire into someone's face? That's...no, seriously. What the fuck.

Depends on how much of an enemy the other sides politics represent.

[Greed and Death]

This sounds like a case of hungoverness.

This is england they were likely still drunk

[Quintium]

You know, I'm surprised. I'm surprised how egregious crimes can be dismissed or laughed about with ease by so many people on this forum.
How, even on the first page, the people who usually slavishly follow the mass media now refuse to believe the BBC because the story that is reported on does not fit their personal narrative.

[Twilight Imperium]

You know, I'm surprised. I'm surprised how egregious crimes can be dismissed or laughed about with ease by so many people on this forum.
How, even on the first page, the people who usually slavishly follow the mass media now refuse to believe the BBC because the story that is reported on does not fit their personal narrative.

This didn't actually happen. The hell are you on about?

[Quintium]

You know, I'm surprised. I'm surprised how egregious crimes can be dismissed or laughed about with ease by so many people on this forum.
How, even on the first page, the people who usually slavishly follow the mass media now refuse to believe the BBC because the story that is reported on does not fit their personal narrative.

This didn't actually happen. The hell are you on about?

Maybe if you didn't jump to the conclusion that this attack had anything to do with Remembrance Poppies then you wouldn't have so much of a problem with Remembrance Poppy related controversies.

And the fact that reports say he was drunk?

Alcohol often is a factor in reducing self control, yes.

The report clearly states that the person was/might drunk. Ethnic backgrounds have nothing to do with attacks. The persons's mind does however.

Are we sure this attack had anything to do with the boy selling poppies?

He might have done it to himself.

The unnecessary violence of the army is crazy and I can only hope the perpetrators are caught and put away for their crimes.

Sounds more like a drunk guy being a complete and utter shitbag than someone actively trying to ruin Remembrance Day.

Now, I know what the deal is here. It's a behavioral pattern for which I've yet to find a proper name. But it goes as follows.

A is deemed to be running counter to the narrative that we have decided we want to support.
A is questioned. Any discussion about A is derailed. A is spun in such a way that it does support our narrative. The relative importance of A is downplayed.

B is deemed to be supportive of the narrative that we have decided we want to support.
B is accepted without question. Any discussion about B is safeguarded by us, and any attempts at derailing it are stopped quickly. B is presented as a matter-of fact case.

In this case, the original post may have been a bit of a B, but nearly all other posters have been A. They had no reasonable grounds any more than the original poster did to add information or speculate about the nature of this attack, but they did so anyway, because where B fit within the original poster's narrative, it was an A to them.

[Twilight Imperium]

In this case, the original post may have been a bit of a B, but nearly all other posters have been A. They had no reasonable grounds any more than the original poster did to add information or speculate about the nature of this attack, but they did so anyway, because where B fit within the original poster's narrative, it was an A to them.

Speculation is about all we have to talk about, though. And people have largely been using the information from the BBC source - "black or Asian, 5ft 8in tall and wearing a dark hooded top", and "appeared to be under the influence of alcohol". Nobody's denying any of that. I'm still not sure what you think people are denying, here?

[Quintium]

I'm still not sure what you think people are denying, here?

Downplaying and ridiculing ("he may have done it to himself", "that must have been one hell of a hangover"), not denying. And what you see here are not arguments, but interests at play. The original poster seems to have the ulterior motive of inserting law-and-order, patriotic, perhaps even slightly far-right beliefs into the public discourse. The people responding, on the other hand, see their relative progressivism attacked and will therefore downplay or attack whatever argument the original poster presented in order to defend their own point of view.

[Twilight Imperium]

I'm still not sure what you think people are denying, here?

Downplaying and ridiculing ("he may have done it to himself", "that must have been one hell of a hangover"), not denying. And what you see here are not arguments, but interests at play. The original poster seems to have the ulterior motive of inserting law-and-order, patriotic, perhaps even slightly far-right beliefs into the public discourse. The people responding, on the other hand, see their relative progressivism attacked and will therefore downplay or attack whatever argument the original poster presented in order to defend their own point of view.

Ah. I think you're seeing a metanarrative where none exists - namely, that of intentionalism.

Or phrased less like an overeducated tosser, you're looking at this in terms of bipartisan politics, where I'm pretty sure we're just bullshitting about a crazy man.

[-The West Coast-]

If this isn't the clearest cut example of culturally influenced hatred for the armed forces, than I don't know what is. It's disgusting to see this go on in what is supposed to be a civilized, western nation.

[Kiribati-Tarawa]

This is truly terrible. Also, what do people have against remembrance poppies? They seem like a nice, inoffensive tradition.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

This is truly terrible. Also, what do people have against remembrance poppies? They seem like a nice tradition.

As i've made clear I dislike the money going to the Haig fund or the British Legion

[-The West Coast-]

This is truly terrible. Also, what do people have against remembrance poppies? They seem like a nice tradition.

As i've made clear I dislike the money going to the Haig fund or the British Legion

You dislike money going to charity? Your humanity is quite uplifting.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

As i've made clear I dislike the money going to the Haig fund or the British Legion

You dislike money going to charity? Your humanity is quite uplifting.

No. I like worthy charities. I donate significant amounts to MsF for example.

[-The West Coast-]

You dislike money going to charity? Your humanity is quite uplifting.

No. I like worthy charities. I donate significant amounts to MsF for example.

And a soldier's life is not worthwhile?

[Land and Freedom]

This sounds like a case of hungoverness.

Do you burn people when you have a hangover?

Because I tell, I've had many a hangover in my life, and I'm yet to set someone's face on fire.

[-The West Coast-]

This sounds like a case of hungoverness.

It's a case of institutionalized hatred against men and women who put everything on the line for men and women like him. Not some lame fucking excuse like 'hungoverness'.

[Land and Freedom]

Using "he was drunk" as an excuse is a tad ridiculous. I'm guessing not of many people here have gotten drunk.

Sure you might say something stupid, you might even take a swing at someone who mouths you off. But, as a rule, you don't go setting people on fire.

The reactions to this situation are really beyond belief.

[Fartsniffage]

This sounds like a case of hungoverness.

It's a case of institutionalized hatred against men and women who put everything on the line for men and women like him. Not some lame fucking excuse like 'hungoverness'.

Or it's just a jackass in Manchester....

[-The West Coast-]

It's a case of institutionalized hatred against men and women who put everything on the line for men and women like him. Not some lame fucking excuse like 'hungoverness'.

Or it's just a jackass in Manchester....

No, he was a violent terrorist. Not just a jackass.

[Land and Freedom]

Or it's just a jackass in Manchester....

No, he was a violent terrorist. Not just a jackass.

There's a large overlap between fucked in the head and violent terrorism.

[Lordieth]

No. I like worthy charities. I donate significant amounts to MsF for example.

And a soldier's life is not worthwhile?

At the end of the day, it's her money, and she can decide which charities she thinks are worthy/unworthy of her donating it to. I have my own opinions on certain charities that others may disagree with, but the beauty of charity is, it's entirely optional and down to the donator where the money goes.

[Fartsniffage]

Or it's just a jackass in Manchester....

No, he was a violent terrorist. Not just a jackass.

You know something we don't?

[-The West Coast-]

No, he was a violent terrorist. Not just a jackass.

There's a large overlap between fucked in the head and violent terrorism.

He committed a violent act of terror against a child in uniform handing out poppies. How is that not terrorism?

[Land and Freedom]

There's a large overlap between fucked in the head and violent terrorism.

He committed a violent act of terror against a child in uniform handing out poppies. How is that not terrorism?

Read what I said again.

[-The West Coast-]

No, he was a violent terrorist. Not just a jackass.

You know something we don't?

I know that Britain has a minority of people that are incredibly violent with soldiers on Remembrance Day, and I know that they are often the ones that are desecrating sites of military memorials and wreaths and so on. Why can't anyone else see this at what it is? A violent terrorist attack.