Is immigration positive or negative to the EU?

[Farnhamia]

Besides, foreign languages are hard for adults to learn to speak fluently. And, you know, while I agree with you on much of this, the US does not maintain itself by invading other countries. I think I understand why you might say that but it really does smack of rhetoric and takes away from the rest of your post.

I'm more talking about maintaining this behavior on the same nations invaded , if you want an example that even the Supreme Court and UN endorse you can look at the Black Hills and America's legally recognized illegal occupation in the present of lands belonging to the Sioux.

I apologize, I thought you were speaking about in modern times. Yes, the US has done some fairly bad things to the Native Americans. Efforts have been made to do better. But we digress.

[Volantyz]

Toiling Masses yearning to breathe Free should be let in.
Mad evil Priests^TM should be verboten.

What the fuck am I even reading?
Dude, did you come from 4chan or Tumblr or some shit?

Some people from tyrannical Islamic states come here to escape the tyranny that CIA has imposed on their home-lands.

Some people are Mad evil Priests who want to set up tyranny here.

What part of the words 'Mad evil Priests' do you NOT understand

I have diagrams.

[Mushet]

I'm more talking about maintaining this behavior on the same nations invaded , if you want an example that even the Supreme Court and UN endorse you can look at the Black Hills and America's legally recognized illegal occupation in the present of lands belonging to the Sioux.

I apologize, I thought you were speaking about in modern times. Yes, the US has done some fairly bad things to the Native Americans. Efforts have been made to do better. But we digress.

I am talking about occupation in modern times, legally recognized as land belonging to other nations, but these settlers don't respect it, they refuse to speak the languages, try to force the culture, etc, just like the guy I was responding to complained about

I'm pointing this out for the context of the situation and to turn the tables a bit on American anti-immigrant rhetoric that I see as hypocritical. It may not be exactly the topic outlined in the OP but it's related and a little diversity in direction for the thread is always bound to happen. With Europe it's a different situation, there are colonized indigenous people but they tend to be in remote regions, and they have their problems with colonialism but it's not like over here, but a lot of anti-immigration rhetoric is based in racism, thinly veiled or not just like over here, it also tends to be based on dishonest proclamations about the effects of non-"white" immigrants and double standards, I generally take anti-immigration stances with a grain of salt.

[Al-Orthodoxia]

At this moment; negative

[Costa Fierro]

To prevent further threadjack in another thread, I have started this one. My question to NSG is: does immigration help our not help European nations?

It's a mixed bag. Many countries across Europe have seen substantial immigration of some form since the end of the Second World War and is still seeing some thanks to the lack of borders between EU signatories and some external border-removal agreements (looking at you Swizterland).

It depends on where you look at things. Immigration is positive for a country that has a shortage if workers willing to do more difficult jobs or just has a shortage of people altogether of working age (see Germany in the 50's, 60's and 70's) in which these immigrants move to a new nation and contribute in a way that furthers the economic progress of their host country as well as the introduction of a new culture and its associated aspects, such as religion, language, customs and cuisine. Turks who moved to Germany created the Donner Kebab, which can be argued is a social institution amongst contemporary Germany, even more so than traditional German cuisine (apart from sausages). Turks also contributed in the post-war rebuild and subsequent economic growth of Germany, something which I suspect many people don't give them enough credit for. We're seeing this new trend with immigrants from new EU states like Poland.

At the same time, there have been issues with immigration. France in particular has issues with its Arab minority, many of whom who have been born in France and who have parents who were too or who emigrated to France as children. Whether or not the current situation of France's Arab minority is due to societal and institutionalized racism, a sheer lack of economic opportunities made worse by an unprecedented economic and financial crisis or their refusal to seek jobs and integrate with wider French society out of fear of loosing their cultural identities is up for debate. What isn't is the disproportionate statistics and societal issues that Arabs face in France, in particular their seemingly circular poverty and high crime rates, especially in the suburbs and projects of France where even the Gendarmerie don't go. France has also had a particular issue with Roma, although in this case it appears that Roma don't particularly want to integrate into wider society for the same reasons as I suggested earlier.

In truth, I don't really agree in either absolute that immigration has been beneficial or complete disasters for nations. More often, immigration's success or failure revolves around unique circumstances faced by any particular nation at any given time and are determined by government's, and society's for that matter, reaction and adaption, integration and absorbtion of different peoples and cultures.

[L Ron Cupboard]

The demography of the European Union means an ageing and a declining population. We need immigration or robots.

[Divair]

The demography of the European Union means an ageing and a declining population. We need immigration or robots.

Immigrant robots.

[Shamhnan Insir]

The demography of the European Union means an ageing and a declining population. We need immigration or robots.

Immigrant robots.

What about clones?

[Magna Libero]

Immigrant robots.

What about clones?

Clone immigrants?

[Empire of Narnia]

The demography of the European Union means an ageing and a declining population. We need immigration or robots.

Go with immigration. Robots are evil and they cost a lot to build and maintain.

[Divair]

Immigrant robots.

What about clones?

Cloned robotic immigrants.

[Herador]

What about clones?

Cloned robotic immigrants.

Isn't Japan trying to do that?

[Divair]

Cloned robotic immigrants.

Isn't Japan trying to do that?

I wouldn't be surprised.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Cloned robotic immigrants.

Isn't Japan trying to do that?

They also have demographic time-bomb of an ageing population creating a problem of social care provision.

[The Fascist American Empire]

Positive. People being exposed to new cultures, foods, and ideas is good, and helps us all out.

However, they shouldn't come to the EU expecting a handout. They need to work hard.

To that I can easily agree with.

Now if only we could get that through the skulls of native-born citizens in the U.S.

[Herskerstad]

Think large parts of it goes related to the culture. Migrations which diminishes a culture, especially a culture which has relatively alien tendencies towards the surging minority. IE - Islamic immigration in Armenia. Will provoke conflict and general distrust after long. It would be less, but still fairly significant if say Brits were to overwhelm the Scottish in their own nation through a combination of high immigration and birthrate differences.

East Asians have been relatively favorably received in the nation I live in. 'Norway' From what I have garnered there is less desire for high Somalian migration than say South Korean which also factors in religious and social reasons. Immigration also has it's pro's and con's. In Norway we only have 3 nations which gives us a direct surplus 'there are a lot of factors that are indirect as well' And it was Sweden, Germany and the UK. Though we also have a lot of silly ideas enforced about giving subsidies to families abroad which makes it considerably harder gaining a surplus from say Romania.

The whole yes or no question is a bit basic. Truth be told it generally is a far more targeted question. I am not for fully open borders by any standards and the population has some fairly divided stances on the issue, but for most part I don't think many mind highly educated, productive and criminally spot-clean immigrants. There is also the question of naturalization. I am for proactive integration and even certain aspects of the melting pot ideals. Such means enforcing standards and not having a free for all. Though the policies on a national level there is certainly valid considerations within economic, social, cultural and even political standards which can restrict or further open up the borders that stand valid depending on their situation.

[Goddess Relief Office]

They also have demographic time-bomb of an ageing population creating a problem of social care provision.

To solve that you'd need highly educated, skilled migrants who contribute taxes, rather than the low-end type who end up taking from the system. It's complicated. Generally I think most EU nations are doing it right (skilled migrants get places first). The US is doing it wrong (migrants with family-ties get in first)

[Dei Terrare]

What do you expect from a 11 year old?

I'm very sorry to say this young sir, but the rules state that persons under 13 years of age may not play this game.

FOOLED YOU

[Arkinesia]

Any immigrant who works in the EU is positive to the EU.

Simple as that.

[Calimera II]

Muslim immigration is bad.

[GrandKirche]

Very positive. The EU is rich and lazy, so they need poor and active people to come in to keep the economy functioning. How easy is it these days to find a French maid (for example)?

[Arkinesia]

Muslim immigration is bad.

Why?

[Marcurix]

Any immigrant who works in the EU is positive to the EU.

Simple as that.

So trafficked sex workers are good for the EU?

[Herskerstad]

You think bringing the idea of Sharia Law to Europe is a good thing?

Aren't you Christian?

And explain how Muslim ideals are good values.

I am, but Muslim Sharia law is quite compatible with Christian values. Further, Christians as "people of the book" are allowed to practice their faith without discrimination in an Islamic society. The same is true for those that follow the Jewish faith.

Your name holds quite true to your reasoning here. The Dhimmi treatment stood as anything other than a 'You are free to do as you please' card. Even in the most benevolent system of their time there still stood aspects such as human taxation, and other aspects of Sharia stands in stark contrast with christian values in general.

And if you agree with their systems and think it is a good idea that Europe becomes more Sharia-compliant, then you've frankly been spoiled beyond re-approach.

[Othelos]

You think bringing the idea of Sharia Law to Europe is a good thing?

Aren't you Christian?

And explain how Muslim ideals are good values.

I am, but Muslim Sharia law is quite compatible with Christian values.

Not really.

Further, Christians as "people of the book" are allowed to practice their faith without discrimination in an Islamic society. The same is true for those that follow the Jewish faith.

Oftentimes doesn't pan out in reality.