U.S. Military murders Reuters' reporters. Covers it up.

[Parthenon]

Honestly, this is the kind of defeatist bs attitude that gets our soldiers killed. First and foremost, look up the word murder. Secondly, when you create an aura around the troops forcing them to second guess every decision they make in a combat zone you are in a sense, contributing to their demise.

Filling journalists full of holes and shooting children is never justified. It's clearly murder.

You mean journalists peering around corners with a big black rpg looking camera aimed right at a US gunship?

or the children that weren't visible inside a minivan that drove up to a scene and attempted to evac a suspected insurgent that was engaged just minutes prior?


Stupidity on the part of those killed, not murder.

An RPG - looking camera? lol. What kind of camera looks like an RPG? A black shoulder mounted panasonic? Why can't a journalist take a picture of a helicopter without fear of being shot at?

As for the children in the van. They probably didn't think they would get shot at for trying to save a wounded reporter. Perhaps they happened to drive by and see a bleeding man crawling in the street. Whatever their reasons, I don't think they were far-fetched.

As others have mentioned, if you are going to parade around with armed insurgents you have no right to safety.

First of all, when the U.S. military declares the street in front of your house a warzone, where else are you supposed to walk? Second, its very common to carry guns in Baghdad. it doesn't mean they are insurgents and it doesn't give the military the right to shoot innocent people not holding weapons.

If you carry a gun in downtown Baghdad and you aren't in the IP or the coalition you are no longer a civi, you are an insurgent.

When you shoot from an altitude of several hundred feet in a moving platform you cannot get pinpoint accuracy on only those with guns, you spread fire over a specific radius.

[Ravea]

Shit, I am desensitized to gore anymore. Hell, I think most of these videos are pretty badass.

That's disgusting. It'd be disgusting even if they were insurgents with an RPG and AK-47s.

I don't know how many times I tried to convince my parents to let me drop out of school so I could join up and light up some insurgents...

At least 10 I would guess.

Troll

Right, because wanting to serve my country and eliminate those that intend to kill Americans makes me a troll...

GOOD ONE!

And if I wasn't against violence in general, I'd take the side of the Iraqis. Does that make me a troll?

[Soyut]

Apparently it's the business of trigger happy sadists.

If I was in a country full of people who hated me and wanted me out to such an extent that they leave bombs at the side of the road to blow my humvees up daily, shoot at me with RPGs, and attempt to gun me down with AK-47's, I'd be a little looser on the trigger as well. I'd rather kill the guy who might be about to kill me than to pay the price for it and die in the next second. That's not sick or sadistic. It's the basic human instinct for survival.

really? My first thought would be, "How do I get the fuck out of here?" That's probably the healthiest attitude I would imagine.

[North Suran]

This looks very, very fake.

For one, the visuals are far too clear. That was the detail I immediately noticed, and which continued to gnaw away at me as the video progressed. Secondly, why did the Apache helicopter just happen to be flying around there? Thirdly, with the visuals being this clear, how were the crew unable to recognise that the people were unarmed? Penultimately, the dialogue is too 'juicy'. It is the equivalent to al-Qaeda releasing a video of Obama saying, "I hate Muslims. Let us continue our unjust war, which is in actual fact an excuse to massacre Muslims". Lastly, it is from WikiLeaks, and is positioned directly above a fund-raising appeal. Shock footage to try and stir up donations, perhaps?

At any rate, I don't see what the issue is. Civilian deaths have occured and been covered up in every war since, well, the invention of warfare. This seems like a case of the Emperor's new clothes; no one gives a shit until someone points out the obvious.

[Parthenon]

Shit, I am desensitized to gore anymore. Hell, I think most of these videos are pretty badass.

That's disgusting. It'd be disgusting even if they were insurgents with an RPG and AK-47s.

I don't know how many times I tried to convince my parents to let me drop out of school so I could join up and light up some insurgents...

At least 10 I would guess.

Troll

Right, because wanting to serve my country and eliminate those that intend to kill Americans makes me a troll...

GOOD ONE!

And if I wasn't against violence in general, I'd take the side of the Iraqis. Does that make me a troll?

If you are an american?

No, it just means you are guilty of treason and should be sentenced to death pursuant to statute.

[Soyut]

Honestly, this is the kind of defeatist bs attitude that gets our soldiers killed. First and foremost, look up the word murder. Secondly, when you create an aura around the troops forcing them to second guess every decision they make in a combat zone you are in a sense, contributing to their demise.

Filling journalists full of holes and shooting children is never justified. It's clearly murder.

You mean journalists peering around corners with a big black rpg looking camera aimed right at a US gunship?

or the children that weren't visible inside a minivan that drove up to a scene and attempted to evac a suspected insurgent that was engaged just minutes prior?


Stupidity on the part of those killed, not murder.

An RPG - looking camera? lol. What kind of camera looks like an RPG? A black shoulder mounted panasonic? Why can't a journalist take a picture of a helicopter without fear of being shot at?

As for the children in the van. They probably didn't think they would get shot at for trying to save a wounded reporter. Perhaps they happened to drive by and see a bleeding man crawling in the street. Whatever their reasons, I don't think they were far-fetched.

As others have mentioned, if you are going to parade around with armed insurgents you have no right to safety.

First of all, when the U.S. military declares the street in front of your house a warzone, where else are you supposed to walk? Second, its very common to carry guns in Baghdad. it doesn't mean they are insurgents and it doesn't give the military the right to shoot innocent people not holding weapons.

If you carry a gun in downtown Baghdad and you aren't in the IP or the coalition you are no longer a civi, you are an insurgent.

When you shoot from an altitude of several hundred feet in a moving platform you cannot get pinpoint accuracy on only those with guns, you spread fire over a specific radius.

Yes, that is why innocent people are getting shot. What you just said.

[Panzerjaeger]

Honestly, this is the kind of defeatist bs attitude that gets our soldiers killed. First and foremost, look up the word murder. Secondly, when you create an aura around the troops forcing them to second guess every decision they make in a combat zone you are in a sense, contributing to their demise.

Filling journalists full of holes and shooting children is never justified. It's clearly murder.

You mean journalists peering around corners with a big black rpg looking camera aimed right at a US gunship?

or the children that weren't visible inside a minivan that drove up to a scene and attempted to evac a suspected insurgent that was engaged just minutes prior?


Stupidity on the part of those killed, not murder.

An RPG - looking camera? lol. What kind of camera looks like an RPG? A black shoulder mounted panasonic? Why can't a journalist take a picture of a helicopter without fear of being shot at?

As for the children in the van. They probably didn't think they would get shot at for trying to save a wounded reporter. Perhaps they happened to drive by and see a bleeding man crawling in the street. Whatever their reasons, I don't think they were far-fetched.

As others have mentioned, if you are going to parade around with armed insurgents you have no right to safety.

I wonder who had the great idea of going next to armed militants in a war zone.

Probably one of the geniuses that got themselves blown up.

[Fson]

Honestly, this is the kind of defeatist bs attitude that gets our soldiers killed. First and foremost, look up the word murder. Secondly, when you create an aura around the troops forcing them to second guess every decision they make in a combat zone you are in a sense, contributing to their demise.

US Nationalist fail.


Seriously fucking slap it up you America, you fight dirty then expect dirty fighting back suicide bomb central is what your military deserve.

[Greater Americania]

really? My first thought would be, "How do I get the fuck out of here?" That's probably the healthiest attitude I would imagine.

Lying on the floor of a helicopter with a AK bullet lodged in my neck because I was a too much of a coward to shoot the other guy who shot me doesn't sound healthy to me at all.

[Melkor Unchained]

Does this count?

Nope. I don't trust the Huffington Post (especially for something like this). If it's on the NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc, then I'll consider it legit. It probably is and I just don't want it to be, to tell you the truth though...

Fair enough, I don't like them either. How about the BBC then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm

The video is of high quality and appears to be authentic, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says. It is accompanied by a recording of the pilots' radio transmissions and those of US troops on the ground.

Now I'm convinced. Thanks.

*sigh*

Maybe I'm missing something but...

What exactly does that article cover that isn't already covered in this thread? I think everyone reading this topic knows by now that a guncam video came out on wikileaks, and all the article really does is explain what goes on in the video... the above link is basically the OP in article form. So what are you "convinced" of now that you weren't after reading the OP and watching the video?

[Grand Tomania]

Only a yank could dream up a name like "the war for hearts and minds" for this.

My guess is that they'll get a nice stage trial like those guards at abu ghraib and will be sentenced to 2 months of no golfing on thursdays after sunset...

[Buffett and Colbert]

Apparently it's the business of trigger happy sadists.

If I was in a country full of people who hated me and wanted me out to such an extent that they leave bombs at the side of the road to blow my humvees up daily, shoot at me with RPGs, and attempt to gun me down with AK-47's, I'd be a little looser on the trigger as well. I'd rather kill the guy who might be about to kill me than to pay the price for it and die in the next second. That's not sick or sadistic. It's the basic human instinct for survival.

Except they posed no credible threat from what we can see in the video. You can't shoot up civilians because we're not sure what they're holding (unless they pose, gasp, a security risk!).

[Jocabia]

WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.

link:

http://wikileaks.org/

If anything proves how debased and insane the U.S. military has become, I hope this does.

For all the description, I honestly expected this to be damning. Even if it were outright murder, it would do nothing to paint the military. No Christian molesting a kid makes me a molestor.

Meanwhile, I watched this video. It's totally clear that they believed them to be the enemy. It was clear that even when the van was evacuating people the gunner was getting upset because he thought they would get away with insurgents and weapons. You really have to start with the assumption this was murder to get anywhere close to it and I simply can't. Murder requires evidence. You don't have it.

I promise I expected this to be murder and you simply don't have anything that supports it.

[North Suran]

Right, because wanting to serve my country and eliminate those that intend to kill Americans makes me a troll...

GOOD ONE!

And if I wasn't against violence in general, I'd take the side of the Iraqis. Does that make me a troll?

If you are an american?

No, it just means you are guilty of treason and should be sentenced to death pursuant to statute.

Because obviously, freedom of speech is not at all protected by the US Constitution.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Does this count?

Nope. I don't trust the Huffington Post (especially for something like this). If it's on the NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc, then I'll consider it legit. It probably is and I just don't want it to be, to tell you the truth though...

Fair enough, I don't like them either. How about the BBC then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm

The video is of high quality and appears to be authentic, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says. It is accompanied by a recording of the pilots' radio transmissions and those of US troops on the ground.

Now I'm convinced. Thanks.

*sigh*

Maybe I'm missing something but...

What exactly does that article cover that isn't already covered in this thread? I think everyone reading this knows by now that this came out on wikileaks, and all the article really does is explain what goes on in the video... the above link is basically the OP in article form. So what are you "convinced" of now that you weren't after reading the OP and watching the video?

I had never heard of wikileaks and didn't find it credible enough. The BBC is well known and credible.

[PanAmerican (Ancient)]

Shit, I am desensitized to gore anymore. Hell, I think most of these videos are pretty badass.

That's disgusting. It'd be disgusting even if they were insurgents with an RPG and AK-47s.

Having been a 13B dropping 155mm shells on insurgents from 30km away I have a hard time getting upset when I see another Hadji killed.

[Parthenon]

Apparently it's the business of trigger happy sadists.

If I was in a country full of people who hated me and wanted me out to such an extent that they leave bombs at the side of the road to blow my humvees up daily, shoot at me with RPGs, and attempt to gun me down with AK-47's, I'd be a little looser on the trigger as well. I'd rather kill the guy who might be about to kill me than to pay the price for it and die in the next second. That's not sick or sadistic. It's the basic human instinct for survival.

Except they posed no credible threat from what we can see in the video. You can't shoot up civilians because we're not sure what they're holding (unless they pose, gasp, a security risk!).

They are no longer civilians if they are holding automatic weapons in a combat zone...

[Greater Americania]

Except they posed no credible threat from what we can see in the video. You can't shoot up civilians because we're not sure what they're holding (unless they pose, gasp, a security risk!).

As I just clearly explained, when you're in that kind of environment, you don't have the attitude nor time to carefully judge every situation. Nor should you. One moment marks the difference between life and death.

[Panzerjaeger]

This looks very, very fake.

For one, the visuals are far too clear. That was the detail I immediately noticed, and which continued to gnaw away at me as the video progressed. Secondly, why did the Apache helicopter just happen to be flying around there? Thirdly, with the visuals being this clear, how were the crew unable to recognise that the people were unarmed? Penultimately, the dialogue is too 'juicy'. It is the equivalent to al-Qaeda releasing a video of Obama saying, "I hate Muslims. Let us continue our unjust war, which is in actual fact an excuse to massacre Muslims". Lastly, it is from WikiLeaks, and is positioned directly above a fund-raising appeal. Shock footage to try and stir up donations, perhaps?

At any rate, I don't see what the issue is. Civilian deaths have occured and been covered up in every war since, well, the invention of warfare. This seems like a case of the Emperor's new clothes; no one gives a shit until someone points out the obvious.

I'm still not convinced it isn't fake. The video footage is way too clear and until I get an actual confirmation will tack it up to not being what it claims. Also lack of body parts flying all over hells half acre is another reason I don't buy it.

[JuNii]

This is disgusting, especially when they are looking for excuses to shoot the wounded reporter. They kept saying things like "pick up a weapon" because when they are armed it gives them an excuse to shoot. Perhaps they were making up seeing AK's and RPG's, just so they could fire.

when did they say "pick up a weapon". please indicate how far into the video that occurred?

[Soyut]

Does this count?

Nope. I don't trust the Huffington Post (especially for something like this). If it's on the NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc, then I'll consider it legit. It probably is and I just don't want it to be, to tell you the truth though...

Fair enough, I don't like them either. How about the BBC then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm

The video is of high quality and appears to be authentic, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says. It is accompanied by a recording of the pilots' radio transmissions and those of US troops on the ground.

Now I'm convinced. Thanks.

*sigh*

Okay, Okay. This is by no means conclusive evidence. But I would say that it helps the case of wikileaks.

[Melkor Unchained]

Does this count?

Nope. I don't trust the Huffington Post (especially for something like this). If it's on the NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc, then I'll consider it legit. It probably is and I just don't want it to be, to tell you the truth though...

Fair enough, I don't like them either. How about the BBC then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm

The video is of high quality and appears to be authentic, the BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says. It is accompanied by a recording of the pilots' radio transmissions and those of US troops on the ground.

Now I'm convinced. Thanks.

*sigh*

Maybe I'm missing something but...

What exactly does that article cover that isn't already covered in this thread? I think everyone reading this knows by now that this came out on wikileaks, and all the article really does is explain what goes on in the video... the above link is basically the OP in article form. So what are you "convinced" of now that you weren't after reading the OP and watching the video?

I had never heard of wikileaks and didn't find it credible enough. The BBC is well known and credible.

Still, all it basically says is "wikileaks has a guncam video of troops shooting people that don't deserve it." BBC mentioning it doesn't make wikileaks credible, it just means they saw it too.

[Free Soviets]

What the fuck do you want?

fewer state-sanctioned murders under the guise of an imperial adventure. we can start with not shooting unarmed and nonthreatening people from the air for kicks.

[Parthenon]

Right, because wanting to serve my country and eliminate those that intend to kill Americans makes me a troll...

GOOD ONE!

And if I wasn't against violence in general, I'd take the side of the Iraqis. Does that make me a troll?

If you are an american?

No, it just means you are guilty of treason and should be sentenced to death pursuant to statute.

Because obviously, freedom of speech is not at all protected by the US Constitution.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your thing...

"IF I WASN'T AGAINST VIOLENCE"

Meaning, if he was in favor of fighting then he would side with the insurgents... Thus, he would fight against America... not just speak as you are suggesting.

[Fson]

Honestly, this is the kind of defeatist bs attitude that gets our soldiers killed. First and foremost, look up the word murder. Secondly, when you create an aura around the troops forcing them to second guess every decision they make in a combat zone you are in a sense, contributing to their demise.

Murder:

1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

Except for the fact that the U.S. says this is legal, I would call this murder. The part where the pilots destroy a van trying to save the injured photographer is almost too sick to be real. Perhaps I am contributing to the military's demise by supporting this video. I can only hope so!

That doesn't even fit the murder definition. Oh bloody hell what is the use you have an ax to grind and a hardon to politically spin it.

You are the one who immediately tried to say that the vid was "suspicious" yes thats right everybody is trying to make fake videos to undermine the US, in fact they want to so badly that they managed to get hold of an attack helicopter, about 30 actors and extras, and what looked like a Bradley. Those dirty Muslim communist bastards...


oh i forgot to put in i actually agree with you that the vid is remarkably clear, but I have seen footage just as clear on Brit cop shows.