Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Liriena]

1. I want a source for that assertion, please.
2. Not that I can recall. Then again, I haven't spent that much time in Wikipedia, so I would refrain from making a hasty generalization. That goes for you too.
3. Pro-tip: If you make a rhetorical question, don't answer it with a lie.
4. Not necessarily...and let's not even mention how impractical and stupid that idea is.

1. Take a good look around and see for yourself. Watch the daily news and watch politics. Learn.
2. Exactly. Maybe you should pay more attention to international affairs after all.
3. It's like a police force in a town: without one the crooks riot.
4. What then: stay in a country where you'll be imprisoned or shot ? Who are you, man ? Jesus Christ ? Do you like martyrdom ?
5. I can assure you: the best thing he could do is to get the hell out of there.

1. See, that's what we NSG'ers call not a source.
2. You are arguing from lack of evidence. Your argument is, to put it mildly, bullshit.
3. Oh, if only the UN and several nations did not have a long history of military intervention in nations that violate human rights. Heck, if only so many nations in the past few decades had not dealt with their own human rights violations of the past through their own judiciary...with the help of international law.
4. Some people have no choice but to do just that. Not everybody can afford a plane ticket out of Russia.
5. Leave, if possible? Perhaps. But abandon the fight? Fuck no.

[Liriena]

You would be correct...were it not for the fact that I'm an Argentinian.

Even better: then you can ask the good people of the generation before you where dreaming got you during the Videla Days. You of all people should know. Those brave people (no doubt about it) paid with their lives and it was in vain. The only thing that actually saved them was Argentina losing the Falklands War.

Actually, the Falklands War was the last nail in the coffin, but the dictatorship's strength had already been severely weakened by the efforts of foreign human rights NGO's, the bravery of a few local journalists, and the growing bravery of the citizenry itself. And now, all the living former members of the military junta, and all their cronies, are in jail, thanks in no small part to the assistance of international human rights legislation.

[Liriena]

Source, please.

Isn't complaining about Russia's treatment of homosexuals while detaining people without trial, keeping Guantanamo open, hunting down whistleblowers, having Prism enough source for you as it is ? Wake up.

Nope. For one, people can multitask.

Any other irrelevancies you wish to bring into this debate?

[Liriena]

Actually, they are stereotypes, and lousy ones at that. Though many gay men are effeminate, and the Western media has been more than happy to turn those gay men into the alleged norm, the reality is most gay men are not effeminate at all. Many gay men are as macho as they come.

Source , please.

Enjoy yourself!

[Liriena]

Not really.

How is it not a serious issue?

I fail to see what's so funny about LGBT people in Russia being silenced by their own government and butchered by their fellow citizens.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

21 people...Go to war with Russia.

Jesus Christ never mind the other couple poor decisions, this one just shows a complete lack of common sense. Hopefully 21 people were joking.

[Scholencia]

Never mind.

[Liriena]

Enjoy yourself!

Your link shows that bears are just gays who pretend to be masculine. Try again.

Until that the most gays are behaving like feminime freaks.

[Llamalandia]

Enjoy yourself!

Your link shows that bears are just gays who pretend to be masculine. Try again.

Until that the most gays are behaving like feminime freaks.

Yeah the gay pride community (ie san fran liberals) seems to be the biggest obstacle to their own acceptance in the intransigent part of society. I mean if they behaved a bit more normally like mainstream heteros I think even hardcore conservatives would be a little more open or at least tolerant of them.

[Grand Britannia]

21 people...Go to war with Russia.

Jesus Christ never mind the other couple poor decisions, this one just shows a complete lack of common sense. Hopefully 21 people were joking.

I sometimes wonder if I should laugh or cry, but then I remember cute kittens and everything is better.

Seriously, though. Taking any sort of sanctions for this is just ridiculous.

[Liriena]

Yeah the gay pride community (ie san fran liberals) seems to be the biggest obstacle to their own acceptance in the intransigent part of society. I mean if they behaved a bit more normally like mainstream heteros I think even hardcore conservatives would be a little more open or at least tolerant of them.

Forgive me if the idea of pandering to hardcore conservatives by changing my personality doesn't make me feel very enthusiastic.

[San-Silvacian]

21 people...Go to war with Russia.

Jesus Christ never mind the other couple poor decisions, this one just shows a complete lack of common sense. Hopefully 21 people were joking.

i sure wan't

murrica

[Liriena]

Taking any sort of sanctions for this is just ridiculous.

How so? Human rights are being violated. Heck, Putin is violating his own constitution.
If the Russian judiciary doesn't do anything to sort this out, what then?

[Regnum Dominae]

Taking any sort of sanctions for this is just ridiculous.

How so? Human rights are being violated. Heck, Putin is violating his own constitution.
If the Russian judiciary doesn't do anything to sort this out, what then?

I'd say it's beyond time for serious economic and trade sanctions at that point. How about... goverments stop buying Russian oil exports?



I used that graph to very roughly calculate the effect of a Russian oil boycott:

8 x 200,000 = 1,600,000 (8 countries importing around 200k barrels a day)
2 x 400,000 = 800,000 (2 countries importing around 400k barrels a day)
2 x 600,000 = 1,200,000 (2 countries importing around 600k barrels a day)
~3,600,000 barrels of oil per day
x 365 = 1,314,000,000
x $100 (simplification of price of crude) = $131,400,000,000 USD

The GDP of russia is 1.858 trillion USD, this would be an almost 10% dent in their economy if I calculated right.

[San-Silvacian]

How so? Human rights are being violated. Heck, Putin is violating his own constitution.
If the Russian judiciary doesn't do anything to sort this out, what then?

I'd say it's beyond time for serious economic and trade sanctions at that point. How about... goverments stop buying Russian oil exports?



I used that graph to very roughly calculate the effect of a Russian oil boycott:

8 x 200,000 = 1,600,000 (8 countries importing around 200k barrels a day)
2 x 400,000 = 800,000 (2 countries importing around 400k barrels a day)
2 x 600,000 = 1,200,000 (2 countries importing around 600k barrels a day)
~3,600,000 barrels of oil per day
x 365 = 1,314,000,000
x $100 (simplification of price of crude) = $131,400,000,000 USD

The GDP of russia is 1.858 trillion USD, this would be an almost 10% dent in their economy if I calculated right.

So we can halt a still recovering economy and possibly risk war?

Yes. Totally lets do that.

[Grand Britannia]

Hence why it's a good thing such an embargo will never happen.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

I'd say it's beyond time for serious economic and trade sanctions at that point. How about... goverments stop buying Russian oil exports?

Because normally world leaders cannot behave in such a stupid manor. That and if they haven't stopped buying oil from Saudi Arabia AND arming them to the teeth, they sure as hell won't impose serious sanctions against Russia. The graph is also a little dated, as oil exports have increasingly seen more focus put into Eastern markets and the GPD has grown since than.

[Grand Britannia]

I'd say it's beyond time for serious economic and trade sanctions at that point. How about... goverments stop buying Russian oil exports?

Because normally world leaders cannot behave in such a stupid manor. That and if they haven't stopped buying oil from Saudi Arabia AND arming them to the teeth, they sure as hell won't impose serious sanctions against Russia. The graph is also a little dated, as oil exports have increasingly seen more focus put into Eastern markets and the GPD has grown since than.

Russian GDP at PPP is at about 3.3 trillion around now.

[Solaray]

Taking any sort of sanctions for this is just ridiculous.

How so? Human rights are being violated. Heck, Putin is violating his own constitution.
If the Russian judiciary doesn't do anything to sort this out, what then?

I say we should just leave it up to the UN, since Russia is a part of the UN, they should follow UN rules, which they seem to not be doing at the moment. Of course, the UN is kinda corrupt, so they may not be the most reliable. But it's not the common public's place to advocate for any sanctions.

[Regnum Dominae]

How so? Human rights are being violated. Heck, Putin is violating his own constitution.
If the Russian judiciary doesn't do anything to sort this out, what then?

I say we should just leave it up to the UN, since Russia is a part of the UN, they should follow UN rules, which they seem to not be doing at the moment. Of course, the UN is kinda corrupt, so they may not be the most reliable. But it's not the common public's place to advocate for any sanctions.

Why not?

[Trollgaard]

How is it not a serious issue?

I fail to see what's so funny about LGBT people in Russia being silenced by their own government and butchered by their fellow citizens.

No one said it was funny. Well, maybe someone did, but I didn't.

[Solaray]

I say we should just leave it up to the UN, since Russia is a part of the UN, they should follow UN rules, which they seem to not be doing at the moment. Of course, the UN is kinda corrupt, so they may not be the most reliable. But it's not the common public's place to advocate for any sanctions.

Why not?

Because we're just the common public. If it's going to be an international issue, let the international government handle it.

[God Kefka]

I really don't think Russia is being insecure here.

They have acted wisely in all of these instances... showing that they will not follow the trend of moral decadence that the rest of the world seems to be headed towards.

It's a good idea to stop the gay problem early before it rosebuds like in the USA and elsewhere... Look at the USA several decades ago (gays are rightly considered sinners and deviants) and look at now (over glorified victims of an unaccepting society).

It's also a good idea to show groups like the FSM that trolling against religion will not be tolerated.

In this day and age, we need to respect religion and moral standards more than ever. Russia has acted wisely in all of these cases so I don't see how this shows insecurity...

If I were Russia I would have gone even further... Fight problems early on so later they don't evolve into sandstorms later you know what I'm saying?

I won't say whether or not I support Russia's anti-homosexual propaganda laws, but I support Russia's right to impose them. Comments like yours, however, make me regret it.

Why though?

[Regnum Dominae]

Why not?

Because we're just the common public. If it's going to be an international issue, let the international government handle it.

And the people have the right to petition the government.

Of course, that doesn't mean the government has to listen to them.

[George Kaplan]

Unfortunately, I don't see it changing either way for a while. Boycotting them would get the public's attention, but would probably cause backlash against the gay minority. The only change I see coming is if protests occur, the police react brutally, and the world watches.