School Shooting in Connecticut - Multiple Fatalities

[Fedeledland]

You have a right to kill yourself. You do not have a right to kill others.

Suicide is illegal in the US, so you DON'T have the right to kill yourself.

What are they gonna do about it? Death penalty?

You know what else causes only death? Cigarettes. Ban those first, they kill tens of thousands more people a year than firearms.

Man, I hate these kind of arguments.

Are you saying that we should sell firearms in packs at a gas station? Free for any eighteen year-old to buy?

While I support further restrictions on tobacco, your argument is entirely irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Agreed. Car accidents also kill more people than shootings; should the US government also make cars illegal? What else to make illegal? Heart desease?

Just because something else kills more people doesn't make firearms harmless.

[Stonec]

Man, I hate these kind of arguments.

Are you saying that we should sell firearms in packs at a gas station? Free for any eighteen year-old to buy?

While I support further restrictions on tobacco, your argument is entirely irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges.

''Second hand shooting is bad for your health and the health of those around you.''

[The Grand World Order]

Man, I hate these kind of arguments.

Are you saying that we should sell firearms in packs at a gas station? Free for any eighteen year-old to buy?

While I support further restrictions on tobacco, your argument is entirely irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The argument he was responding to called for a gun ban based solely on the point that guns only cause harm. Using that argument's logic (if it only does harm, it should be banned- and that IS what his opponent was saying), cigarettes should also be banned. It's not my argument, but I'm clearing that up for you.

[Geilinor]

You have a right to kill yourself. You do not have a right to kill others.

Suicide is illegal in the US, so you DON'T have the right to kill yourself.

It's stupid that we punish people who want to die. If they want to die, we should let them do so. If they are mentally ill, we should only help them, not make them stand trial or charge them with a crime. If something is mentally wrong and we force them to appear before a court, they'll just try to kill themselves again.

[Jocabia]

They don't keep an eye on the door. Also, the weapon would be a small pistol they carry in a holster.

When a shooter is on campus, the teachers are alerted via an intercom and they help students barricade themselves inside classrooms (that's what we're taught now).

Now, imagine that, on top of the teacher pointing a gun at the entrance to the room, which where if the shooter happens to get the through the barricade, the teacher puts him down.

Or they "put down" a first responder trying to help or escape the gunman. Or a student trying to escape the gunman. But no, they're responsible, and responsible people aren't affected by extreme stress situations, and can sniff out bad guys who need shooting.

No, no, bullets are magic. Stop acting like innocent people get harmed even when the shooters are fully trained.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/n ... index.html

Now, cops can't manage to not hit bystanders, but teachers are definitely going to be much better trained in dealing with armed gunmen.

[Takaram]

Suicide is illegal in the US, so you DON'T have the right to kill yourself.

It's stupid that we punish people who want to die. If they want to die, we should let them do so. If they are mentally ill, we should only help them, not make them stand trial or charge them with a crime.

We don't try people for attempted suicides.

[JPM]

This happens so often I'm surprised American schools aren't in a permanent state of lockdown.

Yeah really.. I'm surprised they haven't done anything to prevent this in the past. Why not a better security system for schools? Practically anyone can walk in the front doors. Shows how much the government cares about safety over their school children.

[Miss Defied]

There's also an unconfirmed report that he may have killed his father in New Jersey yesterday, and that the body was only discovered today, after the shooting in Connecticut.

We don't really know the "why," but I've heard some psychologists speculate that he went to the school to murder the class his mother taught out of rage; essentially, he wanted to wipe out everything having to do with her. I have also heard that he killed all of the students in her class, as well as the substitute teacher who was taking her place today.

I'm no psychologist, but I have come to the same speculative conclusion. The gunman had "mommy issues" and chose to kill not only his mother, but the children who, in his warped mind, held a higher place in his mother's world.

[Forsher]

You know what else causes only death? Cigarettes. Ban those first, they kill tens of thousands more people a year than firearms.

Man, I hate these kind of arguments.

Are you saying that we should sell firearms in packs at a gas station? Free for any eighteen year-old to buy?

While I support further restrictions on tobacco, your argument is entirely irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Also, assumes that the person it is asked of doesn't want to ban smoking at some point as well.

That said, not many people propose banning firearms in my experience, just appropriate gun control.

However, no advertising, plain packages and age limits would be a nice place to start with firearms, don't you think?

[Jocabia]

Source? Not that I don't believe you, seeing as you're a pretty respected poster, but this is something that I haven't heard. It seems like the source you're following is very recent (and likely to beat my media on information regarding this tragedy, Yahoo).

His mom was found dead in his house and the weapons he used were registered under her name. That's why it seems to be the most likely explanation, especially considering she was a kindergarten teacher at the school.

But every shooting ever would be stopped if only the victim would have owned a gun. Isn't that what the internet tells me?

[Tubbsalot]

However, no advertising, plain packages and age limits would be a nice place to start with firearms, don't you think?

"WARNING: Shooting kills."

[Ifreann]

Or they "put down" a first responder trying to help or escape the gunman. Or a student trying to escape the gunman. But no, they're responsible, and responsible people aren't affected by extreme stress situations, and can sniff out bad guys who need shooting.

No, no, bullets are magic. Stop acting like innocent people get harmed even when the shooters are fully trained.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/n ... index.html

Now, cops can't manage to not hit bystanders, but teachers are definitely going to be much better trained in dealing with armed gunmen.

Of course. Cops are just in it for the donut discounts, but teaching is a vocation and that translates to superhuman shooting ability.

[Gun Manufacturers]

You know what else causes only death? Cigarettes. Ban those first, they kill tens of thousands more people a year than firearms.

No one who has ever smoked would say that cigarettes only cause death.


Hey, this is fun. I get why people do it now.

What, do they stop hair loss?

BTW, you're right. Sometimes cigarette smoking only causes Emphysema, Cancer, etc (although that can eventually lead to death).

[Grinning Dragon]

And how prey-tel are you going to be able to stop all private transactions? How are you or any law enforcement official is going to enforce an unenforceable law? HOW? All states have laws on the book in regards to private sales of fire arms, and basically say, if you have knowledge that this person is a felon, the sale of fire arms to said person is a felony, and goes on to dictate if you feel that this person couldn't pass a background check, etc....What do you want, all private transactions of anything illegal then, just to stop this so called gun show loophole?

Simple, enact a federal mandate that all firearms transactions of any kind be predicated on passing a more stringent background check than the one currently utilized. If any seller, licensed or private, fails to initiate background check and the purchaser of said firearm goes on to commit murder, the seller who neglected to perform the test is now indicted as an accessory to murder and instant forfeiture of their assets.

Hit people in their pocketbook and their time and you'll get compliance very quickly.

Well, hells bells, since we are going this far, why not apply that to anything that is bought and sold privately then? Why exclude other items that could cause the death of another person. Another issue would be the extreme over-burdensome paperwork of those poor souls at the ATF / FBI to run these checks. And I firmly believe many people would chance it and not deal with the hassle and expense of performing the background check.
And I believe some guy In Kent, WA? was sentenced in selling a fire arm that was used in a murder in chicago.

[Virana]

His mom was found dead in his house and the weapons he used were registered under her name. That's why it seems to be the most likely explanation, especially considering she was a kindergarten teacher at the school.

But every shooting ever would be stopped if only the victim would have owned a gun. Isn't that what the internet tells me?

There've been numerous shootings or attempted shootings where the shooter only stopped because he was held at gunpoint by an armed person in the crowd, who, in each case, either withheld the shooter until police arrived, or fired and killed the shooter in self-defense due to the shooter's likely reluctance to give in.

[Miss Defied]

This happens so often I'm surprised American schools aren't in a permanent state of lockdown.

Yeah really.. I'm surprised they haven't done anything to prevent this in the past. Why not a better security system for schools? Practically anyone can walk in the front doors. Shows how much the government cares about safety over their school children.

The school has recently implemented strong security procedures. Peole need to be buzzed in after someone in the office sees them on video surviellance. My kids elementary school has had this in place for well over a decade. But as the assailant was the son of a teacher there, who may have been well known by staff, not so hard to understand how he got in.

[New Genoa]

The solution to there are more and more school shootings - give the teachers guns, is a bit like saying, I've been getting really really fat, might as well just buy bigger pants.

[Tergnitz]

It seems like there are a lot of school shootings in the US. What's up with that?

Funnily enough...well, not ha ha funny, but anyway, homicides involving guns in the US is actually trending downwards.

[Jocabia]

But every shooting ever would be stopped if only the victim would have owned a gun. Isn't that what the internet tells me?

There've been numerous shootings or attempted shootings where the shooter only stopped because he was held at gunpoint by an armed person in the crowd, who, in each case, either withheld the shooter until police arrived, or fired and killed the shooter in self-defense due to the shooter's likely reluctance to give in.

Source.

[Desperate Measures]

And how prey-tel are you going to be able to stop all private transactions? How are you or any law enforcement official is going to enforce an unenforceable law? HOW? All states have laws on the book in regards to private sales of fire arms, and basically say, if you have knowledge that this person is a felon, the sale of fire arms to said person is a felony, and goes on to dictate if you feel that this person couldn't pass a background check, etc....What do you want, all private transactions of anything illegal then, just to stop this so called gun show loophole?

Simple, enact a federal mandate that all firearms transactions of any kind be predicated on passing a more stringent background check than the one currently utilized. If any seller, licensed or private, fails to initiate background check and the purchaser of said firearm goes on to commit murder, the seller who neglected to perform the test is now indicted as an accessory to murder and instant forfeiture of their assets.

Hit people in their pocketbook and their time and you'll get compliance very quickly.

Yes.

[Forsher]

However, no advertising, plain packages and age limits would be a nice place to start with firearms, don't you think?

"WARNING: Shooting kills."

An important warning that must included on all gun products.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Cheshire, CT.

One example. That's an anecdote.

That Chetssaland asked for.

[Ammar]

Check out Twitter. Apparently the people there are more concerned about Justin Bieber and Ellen being interupted tan this.

[Fedeledland]

No one who has ever smoked would say that cigarettes only cause death.


Hey, this is fun. I get why people do it now.

What, do they stop hair loss?

BTW, you're right. Sometimes cigarette smoking only causes Emphysema, Cancer, etc (although that can eventually lead to death).

Yes, cigarettes kill.

If that's your argument, we should also ban heart disease because hey, after all it kills more than shooting does.

Only, of course, you are not to blame for heart disease and a single person with heart disease won't take away multiple peoples' lives.

[Geilinor]

It's stupid that we punish people who want to die. If they want to die, we should let them do so. If they are mentally ill, we should only help them, not make them stand trial or charge them with a crime.

We don't try people for attempted suicides.

My research just now has shown me you are right. I went with a prior post that stated "Suicide is illegal in the US", but many states don't have laws against attempted suicide anymore. The most the states that do illegalize attempted suicide can do is sentence you for a year or less or send you to an institution.