Like I said, shut up. Generalisations like that are stupid.
I doubt Olof Palme went into politics for power as opposed to wanting to help people.
Seriously, shut up before you start sounding like Moving Forward Inc. and saying everybody's selfish.
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by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:33 am
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:34 am
by Tunasai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:36 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Tunasai wrote:Stalinism contained one thing that classifies it as Communism, a centrally planned economy. Like it or not Stalinist Russia had a centrally planned economy, key to state communism
As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.
Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:37 am
Zaras wrote:CTALNH wrote:LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.
Like I said, shut up. Generalisations like that are stupid.
I doubt Olof Palme went into politics for power as opposed to wanting to help people.
Seriously, shut up before you start sounding like Moving Forward Inc. and saying everybody's selfish.
by Olivaero » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:37 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:37 am
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:38 am
CTALNH wrote:Every body is selfish if we weren't we would be state that you want.
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:38 am
Tunasai wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.
Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.
I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality
by Of the Free Socialist Territories » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:38 am
Tunasai wrote:Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.
Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.
I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:42 am
Zaras wrote:Olivaero wrote:Oh yeah that's why when George Washington was offered King ship He accepted and ruled the USA as a Iron fisted dictator right?
Even Washington was smart enough to realise that was a horrid idea.CTALNH wrote:Every body is selfish if we weren't we would be state that you want.
What? Can you be less incoherent?
So what if everybody's selfish? That doesn't mean it's admirable, or acceptable.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:45 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Tunasai wrote:
I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
As I have already said, as communism is a stateless ideology, state communism is a contradiction in terms.Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
That's your argument about state socialism and state communism shot down.
by Tunasai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:45 am
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:Tunasai wrote:
I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
As I have already said, as communism is a stateless ideology, state communism is a contradiction in terms.Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
That's your argument about state socialism and state communism shot down.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:51 am
Tunasai wrote:Wikipedia says otherwise
Libertarian Socialism, otherwise known as Anarchist Communism. Taking two opposite terms and putting them together doesn't make it work. How would you achieve this? The thing that links mainstream Stalinism to your precious Marxism is a centrally planned economy based off of need and equality, not education and work. The fact is, centrally planned economies always fail. At first everyone loves the idea but as other begin to work harder and some slack off people come to a disagreement over the quality of work. People are not made to be equal.
by Norsklow » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:53 am
by Tunasai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:55 am
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:01 am
Tunasai wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx
1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.
Has a lot of "State" in it
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Tunasai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:05 am
Zaras wrote:Tunasai wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx
1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.
Has a lot of "State" in it
That's the transition to socialism. You can't leap to communism in one go, you need socialism in between. Communism's endgoal is abolishing the state.
by CTALNH » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:08 am
by Voerdeland » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:10 am
Tunasai wrote:Ah finally someone admitting in order to have Pure Communism you must you authority to take everything away. I know its endgoal but the end does not justify the means. THIS, will always fail because no man or woman is willing to suffer through this hell. That is why Communism fails.
Let me succeed or fail on my own merit.
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:12 am
Tunasai wrote:Ah finally someone admitting in order to have Pure Communism you must you authority to take everything away.
I know its endgoal but the end does not justify the means.
THIS, will always fail because no man or woman is willing to suffer through this hell.
Let me succeed or fail on my own merit.
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Norsklow » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:12 am
Divair wrote:Good to see a thread about this. Many non-communists don't understand that Stalinism is in no shape communism.
by Zaras » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:13 am
Voerdeland wrote:There's no such economic system, as there's no way to objectively evaluate one's "merit".
Bythyrona wrote:Zaras wrote:Democratic People's Republic of Glorious Misty Mountain Hop.
The bat in the middle commemmorates their crushing victory in the bloody Battle of Evermore, where the Communists were saved at the last minute by General "Black Dog" Bonham of the Rock 'n Roll Brigade detonating a levee armed with only four sticks and flooding the enemy encampment. He later retired with honours and went to live in California for the rest of his life before ascending to heaven.
Best post I've seen on NS since I've been here. :clap:
by Romanitea » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:30 am
Tunasai wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx
1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.
Has a lot of "State" in it
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