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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:46 pm

New yugoslavaia wrote:
Atheris wrote:Villain kills a character with a wound that wouldn't even be fatal in real life.

Looking at you, Sephiroth.


Or (also on the note of RPGs) characters being killed despite the fact you can heal them or revive them in gameplay.

Okay, this is actually averted in FF7. You can't revive [you know who] with a Phoenix Down because Phoenix Down only revives people who are unconscious, not dead. Which is a pretty cheap cop-out, admittedly, but it's better than nothing.
Last edited by Atheris on Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Haremm
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Postby Haremm » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:24 am

Zul-ar wrote:If the assassin is female, she has to seduce men to kill them. Clearly the inferior woman must use her tits, because they're the only good thing about her, while the big strong male assassin can do literally anything else.


A somewhat related trope is that people always being surprised by crucial female characters, like, yes I completely understand that seeing a female knight or a female resistance leader is quite rare, no need to overreact. Although, some tend to turn it into a joke with the female character saying something like, "What? Was this your first time seeing a woman wearing a (insert type of clothing)?



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Miku the Based
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Ex-Nation

Postby Miku the Based » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:41 am

Haremm wrote:
Zul-ar wrote:If the assassin is female, she has to seduce men to kill them. Clearly the inferior woman must use her tits, because they're the only good thing about her, while the big strong male assassin can do literally anything else.


A somewhat related trope is that people always being surprised by crucial female characters, like, yes I completely understand that seeing a female knight or a female resistance leader is quite rare, no need to overreact. Although, some tend to turn it into a joke with the female character saying something like, "What? Was this your first time seeing a woman wearing a (insert type of clothing)?

くノ一 are mainly there for information gathering and rarely serve a direct combat role. In fiction though they are actually used in combat. Shinobi or kusa are just a certain Shinto sect of Monks that live in disconnected villages with little outside contact. This adds the mysterious level to their cult. Later during The edo period they are known as elite guards which is rarely shown in media. During the Zaibatsu period they are known as literal janitors and that is never shown in media.
Now I want my janitor ninja Shojou anime pronto.
On the other female leader trope, I see that in games like with mercenaries 2 and Just cause 2. They always seem to be communist for some odd reason. I guess that kind of goes along with the whole womens liberation slick (excuse my terrible yiddish) that CCP movies and SU movies came out during the early years of movie propaganda.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:00 pm

Been reading a book series recently where a guy from our world goes to a fantasy land and is told to defeat the big bad....

But it's brilliant, because the dude is genuinely a morally grey sod who deserves a fucking slap.... even if you do kinda get where he's coming from 10/10. Thomas Covenant series.
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Voxija
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Postby Voxija » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:00 pm

That thing in fantasy novels where the author tries to make the reader believe what is going on by having the character disbelieve it.
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Haremm
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Postby Haremm » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:18 am

Chan Island wrote:Been reading a book series recently where a guy from our world goes to a fantasy land and is told to defeat the big bad...


Wait, there's a Western Isekai series?



Speaking of isekai, the genre itself is a cliche already, a nobody/NEET somehow reincarnates (or is summoned) to another world (typically fantasy land) and is very OP because god (or an equivalent being) says so. Although, some can be really good depending on how the author does it.



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Free Stalliongrad
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Postby Free Stalliongrad » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:55 am

I don't know if it also happens in the books, maybe it is a prerogative of the movies, but is it possible that every time you get close to the final fight a storm breaks out?
You can set the fight even in the hottest area of the planet, but rest assured that sooner or later a downpour will come!

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Saarz
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Postby Saarz » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:06 am

I hate when a character stalls by saying how great the villain that's about to kill them or do something bad or something is. It would be fine if writers didn't seem to think that's the only way you can have a conversation. I see that so much.
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Zeloria
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Postby Zeloria » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:22 am

This cliche is something a bit exclusive to sci-fi, but I want to mention it anyways. When a setting takes place into the far future, but technology seems to have stagnated for a couple of hundred years. The Halo series take place in 2552, but despite taking place 500 years into the future, everything looks the same as today, but with spaceships. The weapons all look like something that we could create with today's technology, the power-armors could probably be made in the next 20-30 years, and the UNSC still use soldiers made of flesh and blood, while in the far future, using drones would be much more beneficial. Star Citizen is even worse with this, as it takes place nearly a 1000 years into the future, even tough it could easily take place in the... let's say the 2300's, and not much will change. Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a 50 years from now, and yes, I know that its supposed to take place in a retro-alternate universe, but except for better computers, cybernetics, and fancy holograms, not much seem to have technologically changed.

It's also possible to make the opposite mistake, like when Blade Runner predicted that in 2019 we would have flying cars, and humanlike robots. Or when Back to the Future 2 predicted that we would have hoverboards in 2015.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice to have some sort of story-reason for the technological stagnation or rapid advancement. In Warhammer 40k for instance is it a pretty big part of the setting. In Mass Effect, the humans were able to rapidly advance thanks to them finding alien technology. My own nation has technologically advanced rapidly, but that's because they also found a crashed alien spaceship.

We are a FT space federation, that uses the vastness of space, and our advanced technology, to create a post-scarcity economy, with robots and dinosaurs. The closest equivalent to our nation is the Culture, and the Sophons. The nation takes place in an a universe that was devastated by a nano-machine swarm 500 years ago.

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New yugoslavaia
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Postby New yugoslavaia » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:38 am

Zeloria wrote:This cliche is something a bit exclusive to sci-fi, but I want to mention it anyways. When a setting takes place into the far future, but technology seems to have stagnated for a couple of hundred years. The Halo series take place in 2552, but despite taking place 500 years into the future, everything looks the same as today, but with spaceships. The weapons all look like something that we could create with today's technology, the power-armors could probably be made in the next 20-30 years, and the UNSC still use soldiers made of flesh and blood, while in the far future, using drones would be much more beneficial. Star Citizen is even worse with this, as it takes place nearly a 1000 years into the future, even tough it could easily take place in the... let's say the 2300's, and not much will change. Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a 50 years from now, and yes, I know that its supposed to take place in a retro-alternate universe, but except for better computers, cybernetics, and fancy holograms, not much seem to have technologically changed.

It's also possible to make the opposite mistake, like when Blade Runner predicted that in 2019 we would have flying cars, and humanlike robots. Or when Back to the Future 2 predicted that we would have hoverboards in 2015.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice to have some sort of story-reason for the technological stagnation or rapid advancement. In Warhammer 40k for instance is it a pretty big part of the setting. In Mass Effect, the humans were able to rapidly advance thanks to them finding alien technology. My own nation has technologically advanced rapidly, but that's because they also found a crashed alien spaceship.


To be fair, fiction set in the future ending up being incorrect is to be expected. The writers are not psychic. They might get some stuff right, but often they are too optimistic about technological advancements or focus on the wrong type of technology.
But media set in the far future but still not being that advanced without any explanation is a fair criticism. You would think by 3000 we would have Dyson spheres en mass.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:57 am

Zeloria wrote:This cliche is something a bit exclusive to sci-fi, but I want to mention it anyways. When a setting takes place into the far future, but technology seems to have stagnated for a couple of hundred years. The Halo series take place in 2552, but despite taking place 500 years into the future, everything looks the same as today, but with spaceships. The weapons all look like something that we could create with today's technology, the power-armors could probably be made in the next 20-30 years, and the UNSC still use soldiers made of flesh and blood, while in the far future, using drones would be much more beneficial. Star Citizen is even worse with this, as it takes place nearly a 1000 years into the future, even tough it could easily take place in the... let's say the 2300's, and not much will change. Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a 50 years from now, and yes, I know that its supposed to take place in a retro-alternate universe, but except for better computers, cybernetics, and fancy holograms, not much seem to have technologically changed.

It's also possible to make the opposite mistake, like when Blade Runner predicted that in 2019 we would have flying cars, and humanlike robots. Or when Back to the Future 2 predicted that we would have hoverboards in 2015.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice to have some sort of story-reason for the technological stagnation or rapid advancement. In Warhammer 40k for instance is it a pretty big part of the setting. In Mass Effect, the humans were able to rapidly advance thanks to them finding alien technology. My own nation has technologically advanced rapidly, but that's because they also found a crashed alien spaceship.


A lot of that is because it's just damn hard to predict what tech is going to do, and without being intimately familiar with the physics you are always going to end up being blindsided.

Somebody showed me recently a scene from Minority Report, a movie in the early 2000s, which was supposed to take place in 2054. Yet, all of the stuff the movie portrays as sci-fi was easily doable even in 2010. We didn't, because we found better ways to do those things, making it even more obvious.

So I don't get mad by that sort of thing. I just go 'woo, space ships, it's the future let's gooo'. Personally I find it more jarring when there is a tech introduced but it just isn't used in many obvious ways it would be. Earlier in the thread for example I talked about how annoying it is that all fantasy settings still make castles like they're expecting trebuchets when everyone actually fights with wizards and dragons.

One I must say I do like for this is the Xcom series. Because Xcom basically is happening right now, but aliens are coming in and all the future stuff is their stuff. And in Xcom 2, all of the more backwards stuff they could be bringing to bear is easily explainable that they don't want to shock their human subject's minds too much.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:26 pm

Zeloria wrote:This cliche is something a bit exclusive to sci-fi, but I want to mention it anyways. When a setting takes place into the far future, but technology seems to have stagnated for a couple of hundred years. The Halo series take place in 2552, but despite taking place 500 years into the future, everything looks the same as today, but with spaceships. The weapons all look like something that we could create with today's technology, the power-armors could probably be made in the next 20-30 years, and the UNSC still use soldiers made of flesh and blood, while in the far future, using drones would be much more beneficial. Star Citizen is even worse with this, as it takes place nearly a 1000 years into the future, even tough it could easily take place in the... let's say the 2300's, and not much will change. Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a 50 years from now, and yes, I know that its supposed to take place in a retro-alternate universe, but except for better computers, cybernetics, and fancy holograms, not much seem to have technologically changed.

It's also possible to make the opposite mistake, like when Blade Runner predicted that in 2019 we would have flying cars, and humanlike robots. Or when Back to the Future 2 predicted that we would have hoverboards in 2015.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice to have some sort of story-reason for the technological stagnation or rapid advancement. In Warhammer 40k for instance is it a pretty big part of the setting. In Mass Effect, the humans were able to rapidly advance thanks to them finding alien technology. My own nation has technologically advanced rapidly, but that's because they also found a crashed alien spaceship.

Part of the reason for this is that it's very possible for technology to be relatively stagnant for hundreds of years. The mid-19th into the mid-late 20th centuries were periods of very rapid technological advancement, but it has to be admitted that the periods before and since then have been relatively stagnant, at least in the areas of military technology which you mentioned. There were of course advances which are considerable in the capabilities of some systems, but there haven't and weren't the kinds of revolutionary advances seen from, say, 1840 to 1990. There may be some fairly revolutionary things I'm not aware of, but most advancement has been just making improved versions of systems that were already in-development since then. Think about something like the firearm as an example. Yeah, there has been a lot of advancement in terms of operation since the Arquebus, but it's still fundamentally the same type of weapon, and we haven't really seen any kind of advancement that renders the firearm obsolete, and there haven't been any substantial developments in firearm operation since the mid-1940's.
Last edited by Punished UMN on Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:33 pm

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... Let's split up and be as unaware as possible.
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Miku the Based
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Ex-Nation

Postby Miku the Based » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:08 pm

Okay, let's split up gang.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:57 pm

Zeloria wrote:This cliche is something a bit exclusive to sci-fi, but I want to mention it anyways. When a setting takes place into the far future, but technology seems to have stagnated for a couple of hundred years. The Halo series take place in 2552, but despite taking place 500 years into the future, everything looks the same as today, but with spaceships. The weapons all look like something that we could create with today's technology, the power-armors could probably be made in the next 20-30 years, and the UNSC still use soldiers made of flesh and blood, while in the far future, using drones would be much more beneficial. Star Citizen is even worse with this, as it takes place nearly a 1000 years into the future, even tough it could easily take place in the... let's say the 2300's, and not much will change. Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a 50 years from now, and yes, I know that its supposed to take place in a retro-alternate universe, but except for better computers, cybernetics, and fancy holograms, not much seem to have technologically changed.

It's also possible to make the opposite mistake, like when Blade Runner predicted that in 2019 we would have flying cars, and humanlike robots. Or when Back to the Future 2 predicted that we would have hoverboards in 2015.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be nice to have some sort of story-reason for the technological stagnation or rapid advancement. In Warhammer 40k for instance is it a pretty big part of the setting. In Mass Effect, the humans were able to rapidly advance thanks to them finding alien technology. My own nation has technologically advanced rapidly, but that's because they also found a crashed alien spaceship.

I tend to try and sidestep that myself by inventing unforeseen limitations from physical laws which force long-term stagnation, but it is irritating sometimes. The funniest example I can think of is from an old episode of Doctor Who, when people are still using landline phones and such during the heat death of the universe if I remember it correctly.

Generally understandable though, since technological development is so hard to predict. People decades from now will probably be mocking modern sci fi for this in the same way we mock Back to the Future 2 for saying there would be flying cars and hoverboards in 2015.
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Atheris
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:01 pm

"Oh, cool, a new villain! Jeez, I hope he's super interesting and not laughy insane guy number 416 but this time with [insert superpower/magic power/big sword]! Oh no! It turns out that's exactly what he is- the Joker, but less cool!"

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Luckyon
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Ex-Nation

Postby Luckyon » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:46 am

There are so many cliches. I hate when the pre-teen girl with lexical abilities and skill sets beyond all the other characters in the story. I read a lot to improve my writing skills. But sometimes I still prefer to use a little help of pro writing service here. They are also pro in proofreading.
Last edited by Luckyon on Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Zul-ar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zul-ar » Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:47 pm

Luckyon wrote:There are so many cliches. I hate when the pre-teen girl with lexical abilities and skill sets beyond all the other characters in the story.

The good ole mary sue
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Authoritaria-Imperia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:36 pm

Unintelligent villains always get to me. When your villain is inept enough to
  • leave the hero in a cage
  • leave the hero dangling over a pool of sharks
  • explain their entire plan, including the Very Important Weaknesses
  • tie the hero up without checking their pockets for knives for escape
… etc., it kind of waters down the hero's success, like "anyone could've stopped that villain…"

Also, deaths turning out to be fake, especially if the character has been "dead" for a long time. It feels like such a cheap way to get an emotional response from the reader without the author even committing to it. :/ I'm all for important people dying, but not if the author isn't brave enough to actually change their story in response to that.
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Savroyska
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Postby Savroyska » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:20 pm

Not Cliche, just some comment: I always have to resist the urge to give my ordinary characters supernatural abilities.

Cliche: As said many times before, Mary Sues or, uh, what was the name? Oh yeah, Marty Stus.

In fantasy stories, god there are so many, including but not limiting to:
OH MY GOD NANYTHINHG ONV HEROFDS SIZDEE GOOD!!!!!!!!! (although most popular fictions tend to avoid this, thankfully)
The AU's post

In survival stories:
Armies being WAY too weak to combat Godzilla/the zombies
The hero being somehow way too lucky
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Miku the Based
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Ex-Nation

Postby Miku the Based » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:44 am

Savroyska wrote:Not Cliche, just some comment: I always have to resist the urge to give my ordinary characters supernatural abilities.

There is a good story about giving ordinary people superpowers. Have you heard about Shin Sekai Yori?
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Voxija
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Posts: 1303
Founded: Jan 17, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Voxija » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:46 am

Animated movies that are supposedly for kids but contain pop culture references and dirty jokes that only adults would get.
The Republic of Voxija (pronounced: Voshiya)
I'm female.
Some weird Jew. Trying to learn French and failing. An American who wishes the US would switch to the metric system. Part of a giant conspiracy. Secret pyromaniac? I will never make an OOC factbook!

my politics are confused and muddled
Most of my grammar errors are on purpose. Sppeling errors, tho...
I'd rather be fishing. | Author of Issues 1324 and 1346.
Generic MT liberal democracy Meh. | I think that by now I've created more lore for my nation than most real-world nations have.
Disclaimer: the views of my characters do not necessarily represent the views of the author.

User avatar
Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts
Envoy
 
Posts: 246
Founded: Oct 30, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:59 am

Voxija wrote:Animated movies that are supposedly for kids but contain pop culture references and dirty jokes that only adults would get.


Et tu, Cat in the Hat?
257 Pandanus Avenue,
Spearswood, QLD
4767
I don't believe in the media to report on topics fairly; most of the mainstream, big ones are corporations who are out to make a profit, and sell their space - and audience - to the highest bidder. So yeah, there's a reason I don't trust the press or cable news.

User avatar
New yugoslavaia
Minister
 
Posts: 2116
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:10 am

Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts wrote:
Voxija wrote:Animated movies that are supposedly for kids but contain pop culture references and dirty jokes that only adults would get.


Et tu, Cat in the Hat?


Dirty hoe.
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well...we don't actually know. Sure, there's factbooks and stuff, but they don't really matter because the owner of this account is a lazy, unproductive, indecisive loser who may or may not have a thing for half human hybrids, big mechs and even bigger ships.
Is it a reunited Yugoslavia in the 21st century? Is a rebel colony world in the far future? Who knows, who cares?
New Yugoslavia just is.

User avatar
Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts
Envoy
 
Posts: 246
Founded: Oct 30, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:40 am

I honestly didn't expect this forum to become really popular. I just thought, 'hey, Terrible Writing Advice, but a NationStates forum', and somehow 4200 people have seen this page.

Thanks for your support to the nations posting here!
257 Pandanus Avenue,
Spearswood, QLD
4767
I don't believe in the media to report on topics fairly; most of the mainstream, big ones are corporations who are out to make a profit, and sell their space - and audience - to the highest bidder. So yeah, there's a reason I don't trust the press or cable news.

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