Cliches in Writing

[Crysuko]

Hot take: people whinge about politics in media are actually whinging that their personal politics aren’t being pandered to. Fiction has been used to carry political messages since time immemorial, sometimes subtle sometimes not, but don’t pretend to be an enlightened apolitical because in your heart of hearts, it ain’t so.

[Mun Slleackst]

I know right, people should make whatever they want without the SJWs cracking down on everything. I can’t escape movies or TV shows without a forced political message being shoved down my throat or some LGBTQ+ representation thrown into it from completely nowhere

Eh, this is something that could spark a whole discussion of its own. But virtually all media has some kind of message and that is unescapable.

The trick is in doing it well. Great writing makes you feel like you have learned something, even if you disagree. A lot of movies right now, not so much.

Yep, completely agree with that. I hate political messages that aren’t written well because it becomes completely laughable or idiotic. Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone should be treated equal regardless of who they are & it should be represented but when it’s done right. Helluva Boss does it perfectly, it doesn’t cram it down your throat, it’s just casual. Look at Sallie May, I didn’t even realise they were trans until it was brought up by the creator herself. Helluva Boss treats the LGBTQ+ community as normal people rather than a plot device. Basically write complicated subjects well otherwise it’s a complete joke

[Siebeland]

Yep, completely agree with that. I hate political messages that aren’t written well because it becomes completely laughable or idiotic. Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone should be treated equal regardless of who they are & it should be represented but when it’s done right. Helluva Boss does it perfectly, it doesn’t cram it down your throat, it’s just casual. Look at Sallie May, I didn’t even realise they were trans until it was brought up by the creator herself. Helluva Boss treats the LGBTQ+ community as normal people rather than a plot device. Basically write complicated subjects well otherwise it’s a complete joke

The whole Sallie May thing made me extremely happy. Finally, no tokenism, no "Hi, my name is gay" characters, finally some good fucking foo- I mean, character development involving LGBT+ characters. I'm aware plenty of other examples exist but this one just made my day when I found out about it.

Edit: But don't get me wrong, it's okay for a story to approach LGBT+ topics, and to use their struggles as plot devices to convey messages related to those topics and struggles. Stories portray reality, so these are things that can and should happen. I know you probably agree with this, but I just have to keep it pointed out.

[Indomitable Friendship]

Good VS Evil, I'm just tired of that childish bullshit.

[Czardas]

Protagonists/narrators who are kind of dumb, where this is not an intentional part of the conception.

When done intentionally, this can be fun: it can be funny, ironic or tragic for the narrator/main character to bumble through experiences without a full conception of what they really mean, while the audience is fully aware. But what happens most of the time is that the narrator/main character is somewhat clueless and the audience is expected to share that cluelessness, when we really don't. That feels very much like talking down to your readers/viewers/etc. Examples include characters being unable to solve a mystery (and the solution then being meant as a shocking plot twist) that the reader has already figured out, characters being oblivious to someone being in love with them (and the romantic resolution then meant as surprising yet inevitable in hindsight) when it's obvious to anyone with a functioning brain, and of course that thing where characters who could resolve the entire plot if they just talked to one another simply refuse to and we're meant to see this as an inevitable and heartbreaking tragedy or whatever, but instead comes across as stupidity.

TV Tropes refers to most of this as the "Idiot Ball" and, in extreme cases, an "Idiot Plot". A lot of YA and middle grade novels are particularly guilty of this, presumably because of the assumption that teens are morons, but I read stuff like Hunger Games and Twilight and etc at an age-appropriate time period (14-16ish) and still found myself incredibly frustrated by the number of plot points that were meant to be cool, surprising or poignant but were ruined by utter predictability.

This is one of those things writers, in general, can't tease out unless they happen to get hold of a sufficiently large pool of genre-savvy beta readers. Everything generally works out as though it makes sense in your head, because you know much more about the plot and the universe than you put on the page, when in fact you're very likely to be overlooking something other people would see immediately. Largest single reason I don't even contemplate writing more than once every few years (and now unfortunately happens to be one such time).

[Western Mono Island]

A cliche in writing that really makes me not like the movie, tv, or book is love triangles. Don't get me wrong some movies can really pull it off but I feel like it's so overdone and just becomes annoying to read about or watch.

[Stellar Colonies]

A cliche in writing that really makes me not like the movie, tv, or book is love triangles. Don't get me wrong some movies can really pull it off but I feel like it's so overdone and just becomes annoying to read about or watch.

Yeah, they're irritating. Especially when they are suddenly shoved in out of nowhere.

[Radiatia]

When I was younger I was a huge fan of high fantasy, but at some stage in the last 10-20 years I've been brought to the point where almost every time I pick up a fantasy book I find my eyes rolling all the way to back of my head at all the clichés inherent to the genre, the lack of originality and the blatant attempts to cash in on the popularity of Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

I walked into a bookstore the other day, went to the Sci Fi/Fantasy section and I noticed every book on the shelf was some variation on the following:

• Title featuring some combination of the words "Dragon", "Axe", "Sword", "Stone" or an obscure Scandinavian-sounding word
• The book itself is responsible for the felling of an entire forest. (I.e. they're always doorstoppers but worse - they'll use larger text to pad a 300 page book into a 1000 page book)
• Title written in large, silver, serif font
• Author has no first name, always an initial. (Extra points if there's an "RR" in the initials).
• Cover is always either black or grey and featuring either a stone or metallic object. The object may or may not actually be related to the plot.
• Maximalist, archaic writing style that is only a few typos away from becoming The Eye of Argon
• Hundreds of characters, not one of whom is ever memorable in the slightest
• Perhaps most grating of all: Medieval/Shakespearian English dialogue ("Thee", "Thou" "Egads!") but with American spelling ("Thou wearest my favorite color, good wench!")

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

When I was younger I was a huge fan of high fantasy, but at some stage in the last 10-20 years I've been brought to the point where almost every time I pick up a fantasy book I find my eyes rolling all the way to back of my head at all the clichés inherent to the genre, the lack of originality and the blatant attempts to cash in on the popularity of Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

I walked into a bookstore the other day, went to the Sci Fi/Fantasy section and I noticed every book on the shelf was some variation on the following:

• Title featuring some combination of the words "Dragon", "Axe", "Sword", "Stone" or an obscure Scandinavian-sounding word
• The book itself is responsible for the felling of an entire forest. (I.e. they're always doorstoppers but worse - they'll use larger text to pad a 300 page book into a 1000 page book)
• Title written in large, silver, serif font
• Author has no first name, always an initial. (Extra points if there's an "RR" in the initials).
• Cover is always either black or grey and featuring either a stone or metallic object. The object may or may not actually be related to the plot.
• Maximalist, archaic writing style that is only a few typos away from becoming The Eye of Argon
• Hundreds of characters, not one of whom is ever memorable in the slightest
• Perhaps most grating of all: Medieval/Shakespearian English dialogue ("Thee", "Thou" "Egads!") but with American spelling ("Thou wearest my favorite color, good wench!")

For more complaints on fantasy's creative conundrum, I've got loads of posts on exactly that in this very thread.

[Yurmama]

I hate it when the storyline follows the idea that "family" or "love" solves all problems and its the main focus rather than the individual.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

- Love Traingles

- Toxic behaviors in relationships are justified as being protective/possessive

- and although it isn't common in foreign media, Romantic-Comedies that ends up being a full on Action flick.

Contrived romance is not storytelling; it's marketing. I usually don't write romance in my stories because I'm more interested in other plot elements.

Also, have you ever watched Terrible Writing Advice? It makes fun of THE LOVE TRIANGLE!!!!!!11!!!!!!111!11!!! all the time, and it's glorious.

[Chan Island]

- Love Traingles

- Toxic behaviors in relationships are justified as being protective/possessive

- and although it isn't common in foreign media, Romantic-Comedies that ends up being a full on Action flick.

Contrived romance is not storytelling; it's marketing. I usually don't write romance in my stories because I'm more interested in other plot elements.

Also, have you ever watched Terrible Writing Advice? It makes fun of THE LOVE TRIANGLE!!!!!!11!!!!!!111!11!!! all the time, and it's glorious.

Honestly, this whole thread is a giant advertisement for that channel. Good stuff, and brings up just about everything listed here.

[Stellar Colonies]

Contrived romance is not storytelling; it's marketing. I usually don't write romance in my stories because I'm more interested in other plot elements.

Also, have you ever watched Terrible Writing Advice? It makes fun of THE LOVE TRIANGLE!!!!!!11!!!!!!111!11!!! all the time, and it's glorious.

Honestly, this whole thread is a giant advertisement for that channel. Good stuff, and brings up just about everything listed here.

Never heard of it before, but will add it to my "Watch Later" pile.

[Chan Island]

Honestly, this whole thread is a giant advertisement for that channel. Good stuff, and brings up just about everything listed here.

Never heard of it before, but will add it to my "Watch Later" pile.

It's on youtube.

You're in for a treat.

[Federal Republic of Azargon]

I personally, I'm a comedy person. I watch TV to escape reality. I don't like when the books, series, etcetera are too serious and don't have a minimum amount of dialogue that cut the tension and the stress. I don't like this new wave of movies and books that are extremely dramatic and don't have a reason to be so.

For example, The Matrix had a very good use of drama, because it has action, it's world was apocalyptic, the tension made it the most immersive movie I ever seen. And it has some jokes. e.g.: When a guy I don't remember the name says to Neo it can make a virtual simulation of a girl as he wants... yeah.

A good example of bad use of drama is most Netflix series. They are humorless, boring, and unimpressive. They are simply real life and nothing more. (I know I sound like a hyperactive kid, and I'm offending a lot of people, but okay.).

In short: Over(bad)use of drama

[Niarj]

Don't know if this has an actual name, but I hate the "schizophrenic twist." This is when there are two protagonists, one with an influence on the other in some way, convincing them to do things. Then, at the end. it turns out that the second person was an alter ego in the first person's head. It was decent when Fight Club did it, but now it's been done to death. Also, it always seem so predictable to me that it ruins otherwise good movies/TV shows. It's uncommon, but it still seems to pop up every now and again, and it always annoys me. When a movie or TV show relies on this being the twist and ending, it ends up ruining the entire thing for me because I cannot bear to watch something building up to something so anticlimatic to me.

[Bistritza]

All decisions from all characters being completely rationally motivated. This started as a mechanism to avoid the ''good/evil'' cliche by elaborating antagonist's motives. Became over-used.
Decisions don't need to be motivated by reason, events don't need to have origin. Give room to errors of judgement.

[New Ethyrea]

I despise almost all love triangles, and I also hate it when two friends or lovers or whatever get into an argument right before the climax and they split up but then in the middle of the climax one of them swoops in and saves the day or something.

[Nolo gap]

automobiles in a future that has anti-gravity technology.

the assumption far too common in the u.s. today, that cars and planes are the best or only available means of transportation.

the all human universe and the assumption that the human species is the reason everything else was created or otherwise came into existence.

that the unknown owes anything to ANY system of belief (or none belief),
or that spirit stuff can only exist if it agrees with or at least relates to some form of belief common enough to have a familiar name.

[Core japan]

copy paste folklore example mintours dragon etc

[Xmara]

Don't know if this has an actual name, but I hate the "schizophrenic twist." This is when there are two protagonists, one with an influence on the other in some way, convincing them to do things. Then, at the end. it turns out that the second person was an alter ego in the first person's head. It was decent when Fight Club did it, but now it's been done to death. Also, it always seem so predictable to me that it ruins otherwise good movies/TV shows. It's uncommon, but it still seems to pop up every now and again, and it always annoys me. When a movie or TV show relies on this being the twist and ending, it ends up ruining the entire thing for me because I cannot bear to watch something building up to something so anticlimatic to me.

To add to that: not so much a cliche in writing but an overall pet peeve of mine is when people conflate schizophrenia with dissociative identity disorder or with psychopathy. Those three terms do not refer to the same thing.

Schizophrenia: Characterized by alterations in perception, thoughts, moods, and behavior. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) hallucinations, delusions, apathy, blunted affect (showing little emotion), and cognitive deficits. Example: Mathematician John Nash, who was portrayed in the film A Beautiful Mind.

Dissociative identity disorder: Formerly known as multiple personality disorder. Typically caused by major trauma in childhood. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) the presence of two or more personalities, as well as amnesia. Example: The title character of Moon Knight.

Psychopathy: Characterized by antisocial behavior, impaired empathy, lack of remorse, and egotistical behavior. May not care about people in distress, lie, struggle to maintain relationships, or even engage in violent or illegal behavior. Example: Hannibal Lecter of Silence of the Lambs and related media.

Again, these are not the same. And people with schizophrenia or DID are more likely to be victims of crime rather than the perpetrators.

[Bistritza]

Don't know if this has an actual name, but I hate the "schizophrenic twist." This is when there are two protagonists, one with an influence on the other in some way, convincing them to do things. Then, at the end. it turns out that the second person was an alter ego in the first person's head. It was decent when Fight Club did it, but now it's been done to death. Also, it always seem so predictable to me that it ruins otherwise good movies/TV shows. It's uncommon, but it still seems to pop up every now and again, and it always annoys me. When a movie or TV show relies on this being the twist and ending, it ends up ruining the entire thing for me because I cannot bear to watch something building up to something so anticlimatic to me.

To add to that: not so much a cliche in writing but an overall pet peeve of mine is when people conflate schizophrenia with dissociative identity disorder or with psychopathy. Those three terms do not refer to the same thing.

Schizophrenia: Characterized by alterations in perception, thoughts, moods, and behavior. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) hallucinations, delusions, apathy, blunted affect (showing little emotion), and cognitive deficits. Example: Mathematician John Nash, who was portrayed in the film A Beautiful Mind.

Dissociative identity disorder: Formerly known as multiple personality disorder. Typically caused by major trauma in childhood. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) the presence of two or more personalities, as well as amnesia. Example: The title character of Moon Knight.

Psychopathy: Characterized by antisocial behavior, impaired empathy, lack of remorse, and egotistical behavior. May not care about people in distress, lie, struggle to maintain relationships, or even engage in violent or illegal behavior. Example: Hannibal Lecter of Silence of the Lambs and related media.

Again, these are not the same. And people with schizophrenia or DID are more likely to be victims of crime rather than the perpetrators.

I forgot about those, dear God.
People should in general refrain from writing events or characters they haven't experienced - it will feel foreign to the reader. It's always felt.
However, that advice is especially true when people write; a) psychiatric disorders, b) traumatic events/traumatized characters.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned ''excessive gore'', which is related, but there are people who engage in ''excessive post-gore'' without understand what they're talking about.
I feel as though psychopathy can be written by most people as they are fairly common to encounter, interesting enough to study.
Please though, do not try writing any schizoid characters. I've noted down too many ''schizoaffective attempts'' and it's such an insult. They don't even cover basic positivist meanings of these classifications.

Look, point is, if you want unstable characters, just write them. As I've said, humans aren't rational, events aren't rational, they mustn't suffer from an illness to be unstable.

[Arpasia]

Maybe some people misspell words by not putting accent marks on certain letters, for instance is the word attaché, some people spell it as attache instead, another example would be café while people misspelling it as cafe is definitely unheard of.

[Zhaun]

The realization of the main character that all he/she ever wanted was to have kids thus is the main thing in life. Although that's only in TV shows and Films, books it's different to me, there's space to work around it and give that message in a more entertaining way.

[Czardas]

To add to that: not so much a cliche in writing but an overall pet peeve of mine is when people conflate schizophrenia with dissociative identity disorder or with psychopathy. Those three terms do not refer to the same thing.

Schizophrenia: Characterized by alterations in perception, thoughts, moods, and behavior. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) hallucinations, delusions, apathy, blunted affect (showing little emotion), and cognitive deficits. Example: Mathematician John Nash, who was portrayed in the film A Beautiful Mind.

Dissociative identity disorder: Formerly known as multiple personality disorder. Typically caused by major trauma in childhood. Symptoms may include (but are not limited to) the presence of two or more personalities, as well as amnesia. Example: The title character of Moon Knight.

Psychopathy: Characterized by antisocial behavior, impaired empathy, lack of remorse, and egotistical behavior. May not care about people in distress, lie, struggle to maintain relationships, or even engage in violent or illegal behavior. Example: Hannibal Lecter of Silence of the Lambs and related media.

Again, these are not the same. And people with schizophrenia or DID are more likely to be victims of crime rather than the perpetrators.

On a somewhat related note, I particularly hate when one of these mental illnesses turns out to be the "twist ending" in a mystery novel. The murderer is character X because he's insane! He has DID and therefore all the false clues were left by his alters! His motive is that he's schizophrenic! (Agatha Christie in particular does this way too often.) It's not only offensive, it's also just a boring twist, and edges very close to being a cop-out. You thought none of the clues made sense and the plot was badly written? All of that was totally intentional because the villain was crazy. I'm still totally a great mystery writer.