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Gongsi
Envoy
 
Posts: 203
Founded: Jan 04, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gongsi » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 pm

When crying for two minutes resolves all emotional damage a protagonist has taken. Lost your parents? Shed a tear then move on with your life. Watched your friend die in your arms? Give it an hour, you'll get over it! Your entire reality was fake and everyone you know and love wasn't real? Cheer up mate, you'll feel better after some ice cream.

Is writing good trauma/loss that hard? It all feels fake, forced, or unbelievable. Realistic levels of emotional pain never seems to last for more than a scene.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Posts: 4379
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:55 pm

Gongsi wrote:When crying for two minutes resolves all emotional damage a protagonist has taken. Lost your parents? Shed a tear then move on with your life. Watched your friend die in your arms? Give it an hour, you'll get over it! Your entire reality was fake and everyone you know and love wasn't real? Cheer up mate, you'll feel better after some ice cream.

Is writing good trauma/loss that hard? It all feels fake, forced, or unbelievable. Realistic levels of emotional pain never seems to last for more than a scene.

I KNOW, RIGHT!?!?!? Like, in murder mysteries, they're always like, Ight, let's solve this. Some side characters might be all weepy, though.
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Gongsi
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Posts: 203
Founded: Jan 04, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gongsi » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
Gongsi wrote:When crying for two minutes resolves all emotional damage a protagonist has taken. Lost your parents? Shed a tear then move on with your life. Watched your friend die in your arms? Give it an hour, you'll get over it! Your entire reality was fake and everyone you know and love wasn't real? Cheer up mate, you'll feel better after some ice cream.

Is writing good trauma/loss that hard? It all feels fake, forced, or unbelievable. Realistic levels of emotional pain never seems to last for more than a scene.

I KNOW, RIGHT!?!?!? Like, in murder mysteries, they're always like, Ight, let's solve this. Some side characters might be all weepy, though.

Yeah, but weepy usually ends up being a side character's entire personality. Strip away the tears and they are more often than not just exposition machines and plot devices (or in the case of murder mysteries guilty). Otherwise they recover by the next act.
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A Chinese Republic on the west coast of Borneo.

Gongsi is not representative of my beliefs, political or otherwise.
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New yugoslavaia
Minister
 
Posts: 2082
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Gongsi wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I KNOW, RIGHT!?!?!? Like, in murder mysteries, they're always like, Ight, let's solve this. Some side characters might be all weepy, though.

Yeah, but weepy usually ends up being a side character's entire personality. Strip away the tears and they are more often than not just exposition machines and plot devices (or in the case of murder mysteries guilty). Otherwise they recover by the next act.


Pfft. Actual human emotions? What are those?
Nevermind. Time for some more wacky hijinks!
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Xmara
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Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Xmara » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:56 pm

Gongsi wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I KNOW, RIGHT!?!?!? Like, in murder mysteries, they're always like, Ight, let's solve this. Some side characters might be all weepy, though.

Yeah, but weepy usually ends up being a side character's entire personality. Strip away the tears and they are more often than not just exposition machines and plot devices (or in the case of murder mysteries guilty). Otherwise they recover by the next act.

Okay, but in defense of murder mysteries, the detectives are obviously gonna be like "let's solve this," because more often than not, the victim was a total stranger to them. And usually in murder mysteries, the focus is on the detectives, not the deceased's family. Or at least that's the case in all the murder mysteries I've read.

But it does annoy me when the loved ones don't really seem to care or get over it super quickly (if they are the primary focus of the story). My mom likes to watch those thriller movies that they show on Lifetime and the ending is always the same: the police arrive to carry off the killer. The family hugs and cries for about a minute. Jump to some unspecified moment in the future (usually one or two months later) and the family acts like nothing ever happened. No long-term trauma relating to being pursued by a knife-wielding maniac, no scars or disabilities from injuries during the pursuit, nothing. Sometimes they show the killer, if they're still alive. If the killer is still alive, they are either shown in a new town going by a new name and preparing to terrorize some other family (setting up a sequel) or they are locked up in an insane asylum, talking to themselves.
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Crysuko
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Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:40 pm

New yugoslavaia wrote:
Gongsi wrote:Yeah, but weepy usually ends up being a side character's entire personality. Strip away the tears and they are more often than not just exposition machines and plot devices (or in the case of murder mysteries guilty). Otherwise they recover by the next act.


Pfft. Actual human emotions? What are those?
Nevermind. Time for some more wacky hijinks!

...I need to call my therapist
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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Shov Scien
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Posts: 62
Founded: May 29, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Shov Scien » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:45 pm

Aliens being 'better than us', infalliable main characters (let your characters fuck up and face consequences! they won't get it right 100% of the time!), and one I don't see talked about nearly enough, being completely unphased by killing other human people. Sure, some people can do it, but especially when a character is portrayed as just an average person thrown into a bad situation, they won't be able to just kill someone and get over it. Also, they probably won't know what they're doing. Most of my very normal people friends don't even know how to properly throw a punch, much less successfully disarm an enemy or handle and use an assault rifle.

Generallym though, tropes don't irritate me that much unless it's overwhelming. I'm not opening some YA sci fi novel I got for like 8 bucks and expecting quality on par with the classics of the era, I just want a good story. But there comes a point where I get tired of the same old relationship dynamics and plot points and characters. It's just not creative at that point. Like, if I had a dollar for every time I cold turkey stopped a book because badass man main character and hot also kind of but not really equally badass girl lancer kissed, I could buy all the copies of those books and make sure nobody has to suffer reading them ever again.
Crysuko wrote:
New yugoslavaia wrote:
Pfft. Actual human emotions? What are those?
Nevermind. Time for some more wacky hijinks!

...I need to call my therapist

mood
Last edited by Shov Scien on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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New yugoslavaia
Minister
 
Posts: 2082
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:04 am

Does anyone get annoyed when there's a hostage situation where some bad guy has got someone at gunpoint and then the good guys don't just blast them in the head and get in over and done with? Can't pull the trigger if they're braindead.
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How the hell did this happen?
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Crysuko
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Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:42 am

New yugoslavaia wrote:Does anyone get annoyed when there's a hostage situation where some bad guy has got someone at gunpoint and then the good guys don't just blast them in the head and get in over and done with? Can't pull the trigger if they're braindead.

nooooo rule of drama you can’t just aim a little to the left or right.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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Punished UMN
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Posts: 3443
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:46 pm

New yugoslavaia wrote:Does anyone get annoyed when there's a hostage situation where some bad guy has got someone at gunpoint and then the good guys don't just blast them in the head and get in over and done with? Can't pull the trigger if they're braindead.

Depending on the situation, that makes sense. Aiming handguns at much distance, especially a moving target, and an area as small as a human head, can be quite challenging, especially in a situation where a miss means you lose.
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Esthe
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Posts: 99
Founded: Feb 21, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esthe » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:18 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Esthe wrote:Somehow every dystopian book I read manages to turn into a romance novel.

This makes me want to write my own dystopian styled novella, and sort of lean on that trope before violently yeeting it and going balls to the wall on the actual story

Maybe put it on Wattpad.
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Crysuko
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Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:58 pm

Esthe wrote:
Crysuko wrote:This makes me want to write my own dystopian styled novella, and sort of lean on that trope before violently yeeting it and going balls to the wall on the actual story

Maybe put it on Wattpad.

don't swear at me please
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Forsher
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Posts: 17995
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:11 am

Abortion.

The plots are all the same (unless the whole thing is about abortion in which case I don't think I've seen any of those) and the function is always the same... you do the abortion to avoid having to shake up the fundamental character dynamics.

On a similar note... the "doesn't this character have a kid?" trope. Bones was especially bad at this. It's where they don't go with an abortion plotline but the resultant infant is irrelevant since they're never actually seen.

But that's more in television.

Esthe wrote:Somehow every dystopian book I read manages to turn into a romance novel.


Read Jennifer Government.

I mean... there's a romance plotline in it but it's far from the point.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

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We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

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The Remote Islands
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Posts: 545
Founded: Apr 12, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Remote Islands » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:27 am

Grammar. Man, that's used everywhere.
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Qhevak
Envoy
 
Posts: 234
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Qhevak » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:37 am

Mooks that are literally just pop-up targets for the main character to gun down with zero risk. Mowing down a bunch of dudes who stand out in the open inaccurately spraying gunfire doesn't actually make a character look badass.
New yugoslavaia wrote:Another idea: The prophecy turns out to be nonsense. Just the mad ramblings of some delusional mystics.

I want to see more fantasy works where the prophecy is just straight up made up by some guy looking to use it to their advantage - e.g. the evil dark lord guy makes up a chosen one prophecy to make their enemies waste valuable military assets on protecting a random nobody.
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Xmara
Senator
 
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Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Xmara » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:36 pm

I know that this is a thread about stuff we hate in writing, but here's something I love. I love when the hero and the villain meet and, rather than going straight to fighting, they talk. They may point weapons at each other. They may circle and threaten each other. Or they may just stand still. But I love the tension it creates.
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Forsher
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17995
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:58 am

Xmara wrote:I know that this is a thread about stuff we hate in writing, but here's something I love. I love when the hero and the villain meet and, rather than going straight to fighting, they talk. They may point weapons at each other. They may circle and threaten each other. Or they may just stand still. But I love the tension it creates.


I'm going to guess you're not a fan of Shazam! then?
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

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Esthe
Attaché
 
Posts: 99
Founded: Feb 21, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esthe » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 pm

Xmara wrote:I know that this is a thread about stuff we hate in writing, but here's something I love. I love when the hero and the villain meet and, rather than going straight to fighting, they talk. They may point weapons at each other. They may circle and threaten each other. Or they may just stand still. But I love the tension it creates.

Kinda reminds me of that final climactic battle between Harry and Voldemort.
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Xmara
Senator
 
Posts: 3989
Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Xmara » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:49 pm

Forsher wrote:
Xmara wrote:I know that this is a thread about stuff we hate in writing, but here's something I love. I love when the hero and the villain meet and, rather than going straight to fighting, they talk. They may point weapons at each other. They may circle and threaten each other. Or they may just stand still. But I love the tension it creates.


I'm going to guess you're not a fan of Shazam! then?

You mean the DCEU movie? Never watched it.
/ˈzmaːrʌ/
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Forsher
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17995
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:48 pm

Xmara wrote:
Forsher wrote:
I'm going to guess you're not a fan of Shazam! then?

You mean the DCEU movie? Never watched it.


It's hilarious. But one of the jokes is mocking "talk to the bad guy confrontations".
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

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A m e n r i a
Senator
 
Posts: 3730
Founded: Jun 08, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby A m e n r i a » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:52 pm

I absolutely loathe dumb protagonists in creepypastas, especially in the rules subgenre. Ffs it's never, EVER a prank. It's never your imagination either. Just get your shite together and follow the damn rules.
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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6718
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:35 am

A m e n r i a wrote:I absolutely loathe dumb protagonists in creepypastas, especially in the rules subgenre. Ffs it's never, EVER a prank. It's never your imagination either. Just get your shite together and follow the damn rules.

not familiar with creepypastas, but what exactly does "rules" consist of?
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

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Dollystana
Envoy
 
Posts: 252
Founded: Aug 31, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dollystana » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:42 am

The Remote Islands wrote:Grammar. Man, that's used everywhere.

me no wanna gramma gud

/s
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Chan Island
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5489
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:47 am

New yugoslavaia wrote:Does anyone get annoyed when there's a hostage situation where some bad guy has got someone at gunpoint and then the good guys don't just blast them in the head and get in over and done with? Can't pull the trigger if they're braindead.


Far as I know, that complies with real life law enforcement training. A missed shot could kill the hostage, or get the villain to shoot their hostage- or even just shoot at you. Better to deescalate, try to talk them down, and get the baddie to let them go.

Xmara wrote:I know that this is a thread about stuff we hate in writing, but here's something I love. I love when the hero and the villain meet and, rather than going straight to fighting, they talk. They may point weapons at each other. They may circle and threaten each other. Or they may just stand still. But I love the tension it creates.


In fairness, that isn't that bad either in real life either. It's hard shooting people (as others have pointed out), and most people don't have that instinct of 'quick, blast them!'

Though it is annoying when the protagonist has had no problem blasting away the goons before going through this whole song and dance with the main baddie. Like, what did those bad guy soldiers do? They just wanted to get paid. Meanwhile the main baddie's been making your life a living hell, on purpose, for the whole time and now, after you've thoroughly shown you don't care about human life, you will go to the lengths to spare him?

I quite like how Far Cry 4 handled that. After the whole story, the whole war, your character has the choice as to whether to shoot the big bad or not. If you do, that's it, the campaign literally just ends there and then. But if you don't, you get a whole cutscene and conversation where they discuss everything and it's really interesting.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Zul-ar
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 399
Founded: Dec 18, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Zul-ar » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:17 pm

If the assassin is female, she has to seduce men to kill them. Clearly the inferior woman must use her tits, because they're the only good thing about her, while the big strong male assassin can do literally anything else.
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