Star Wars: This is The Way

[Imperial Rifta]

Yeah, it’s going to be hard arguing with everyone on the thread. I tried to end it by saying, “agree to disagree” Now it doesn’t look like anyone wants to stop.

Eh I'm not really paying attention to be honest. But it is true that the Emlire doesn't really reward loyalty, so much as grind the heel down less.

Eh pretty much.

[Andsed]

...DId you just forget about Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen being burned alive in their own home? Or Ezras parents being arrested for critizing the Empires action? Or the numerous genocides the Empire commited? Or when they blew up Alderaan and hunted down the refugees? The times they threatned (and sometimes did) to masscare civllians to bring Jedi out of hiding(and not to mention the torture of said Jedi untill they mentally broke.) The fact that they did not opress everyone does not change the fact that the Empire was fucking evil. It was a facist state that repressed peoples most basic rights(freedom of speech, protest religon for the three most obvious) slaughtered civllians all the time and enslaved countless others and was again comitted mutiple genocides. Yeah if you kept your head down and never said anything you might have a chance at never getting bothered, but that pales in comparison to sheer amount of atrocites the Empire was responible for.

I agree. All I was suggesting was that you could survive if you stayed under the radar. And Uncle Owen and Aunt Berg are only killed AFTER they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and two fugitive droids. Even though they aren’t given a trial, they are traitors.

On the subject of Alderaan. Leia pleads with Tarkin to spare Alderaan, saying they are peaceful and harbor no weapons. Well we have no reason to believe she is telling the truth. She is a spy, and it is her job to lie for her side. She tells Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission, when in fact she is spying.

Whatever the case, it is important to remember that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror, and is trying to defend its regime against a group of rebels, bent on destroying the Empire. I believe, if it were not for the Rebellion, and the Galactic Civil War, life under the Empire would be fine. It wouldn’t be covered in war torn planets. There wouldn’t be need for massacres and so much death.

On the rebellion. There are no known plans for what happens to the galaxy after they defeat the Empire, other than they make the New Republic. They fail to successfully govern the galaxy. It plunged into chaos ruled by local warlords who answer to no one. It makes the rebels, an anarchic crew of rebels who want to take the galaxy because the Empire is bad, which is their fault.

Let’s just agree to disagree

In what world did Beru and Owen aid the rebellion? They had no knowledge that R2 and C3-PO were anything other than random droids and Luke at that point was not pat of the rebellion. They were two innocent civllians who were burned alive without trial for a crime they had no knowledge of nor reason to think they were comitting.

Whether or not Leia lied is totaly irrevlent. The majority of people on Alderaan were civllians who had commited no crimes. Blowing up the planet and then hunting down the refuugees is pretty much genocide. As is what was done to the Lasats, where the empire used disrupters which according to Wookipedia: "When used on an organic being, the victim was disintegrated on the molecular level atom by atom, resulting in a slow, painful, and excruciatingly grotesque death." I think for most two (three counting the Jedi in there as well) genocides would be enough to condeem any nation but no the Empire did several more that I cannot even be bothered to list.

And blaming the Rebels for this is such a stretch its absurd. Most of these acts began well before the Galatic Civl War started off, hell these kind of repeated atrocites is what sparked the damm thing. Like of all the hills to die on why would you choose defending a murderous genocidal facist regime?

[Ah General Kenobi]

Ill be honest, if i lived in the SW Universe i would not want another Republic. It always ends in disaster and billions of people die. I think it would be more interesting to have multiple factions and stuff rise up and control the galaxy instead of just the Republic. And lots of Independent worlds too.

Hypori shall rise again!

I know it’s controversial but here’s my opinion.

Unless you’re a Wookiee, or some other species that was usually enslaved conscripted, then you could usually be fine under the Empire’s rule. It wasn’t as authoritarian to an average citizen as most people think.

they massacred their own supporters on antar 4

[The Huskar Social Union]

I know it’s controversial but here’s my opinion.

Unless you’re a Wookiee, or some other species that was usually enslaved conscripted, then you could usually be fine under the Empire’s rule. It wasn’t as authoritarian to an average citizen as most people think.

they massacred their own supporters on antar 4

Also they killed who knows how many of their own men on Scarif when they fired on the planet with the Deathstar as Tarkin wanted to kill Krennic to end their own personal rivalry.

It sure as hell wasnt to beat the Rebels as the overwhelming majority of the rebel ground forces present on Scarif were dead at that point.

[The Restored Danelaw]

they massacred their own supporters on antar 4

Also they killed who knows how many of their own men on Scarif when they fired on the planet with the Deathstar as Tarkin wanted to kill Krennic to end their own personal rivalry.

It sure as hell wasnt to beat the Rebels as the overwhelming majority of the rebel ground forces present on Scarif were dead at that point.

I just think of Governor Pryce and Admiral Konstantine, who through their insistence on personal glory and personal vendetta actively fucked up the best way the Empire had of fighting the rebels.

[Ah General Kenobi]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

[Vassenor]

And in the process, the Empire demonstrates there is in fact no benefit to staying loyal.

What do you mean?

Destroying Alderaan is a fundamentally counter-productive move.

[Vassenor]

I agree. All I was suggesting was that you could survive if you stayed under the radar. And Uncle Owen and Aunt Berg are only killed AFTER they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and two fugitive droids. Even though they aren’t given a trial, they are traitors.

On the subject of Alderaan. Leia pleads with Tarkin to spare Alderaan, saying they are peaceful and harbor no weapons. Well we have no reason to believe she is telling the truth. She is a spy, and it is her job to lie for her side. She tells Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission, when in fact she is spying.

Whatever the case, it is important to remember that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror, and is trying to defend its regime against a group of rebels, bent on destroying the Empire. I believe, if it were not for the Rebellion, and the Galactic Civil War, life under the Empire would be fine. It wouldn’t be covered in war torn planets. There wouldn’t be need for massacres and so much death.

On the rebellion. There are no known plans for what happens to the galaxy after they defeat the Empire, other than they make the New Republic. They fail to successfully govern the galaxy. It plunged into chaos ruled by local warlords who answer to no one. It makes the rebels, an anarchic crew of rebels who want to take the galaxy because the Empire is bad, which is their fault.

Let’s just agree to disagree

In what world did Beru and Owen aid the rebellion? They had no knowledge that R2 and C3-PO were anything other than random droids and Luke at that point was not pat of the rebellion. They were two innocent civllians who were burned alive without trial for a crime they had no knowledge of nor reason to think they were comitting.

Whether or not Leia lied is totaly irrevlent. The majority of people on Alderaan were civllians who had commited no crimes. Blowing up the planet and then hunting down the refuugees is pretty much genocide. As is what was done to the Lasats, where the empire used disrupters which according to Wookipedia: "When used on an organic being, the victim was disintegrated on the molecular level atom by atom, resulting in a slow, painful, and excruciatingly grotesque death." I think for most two (three counting the Jedi in there as well) genocides would be enough to condeem any nation but no the Empire did several more that I cannot even be bothered to list.

And blaming the Rebels for this is such a stretch its absurd. Most of these acts began well before the Galatic Civl War started off, hell these kind of repeated atrocites is what sparked the damm thing. Like of all the hills to die on why would you choose defending a murderous genocidal facist regime?

It's the "stop making me hurt you" line that gets used to gaslight abuse victims.

[The Huskar Social Union]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

Well you say that but the CIS committed war crimes every five minutes.

[The Restored Danelaw]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

I mean. They were literally cartoonishly evil. Sure, a large part of this was because The Clone Wars is, at its heart, Republic Propaganda but the CIS's primary purpose was to justify further centralisation of power in the Republic under Palpatine and to play a good ebul boogieman to scare everyone straight with. Slavers were their allies, and they committed multiple war crimes throughout the series.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

Well you say that but the CIS committed war crimes every five minutes.

It's almost like the CIS was controlled by a corporate shadow government that was in turn manipulated by an ancient evil death cult.

[Vassenor]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

I mean. They were literally cartoonishly evil. Sure, a large part of this was because The Clone Wars is, at its heart, Republic Propaganda but the CIS's primary purpose was to justify further centralisation of power in the Republic under Palpatine and to play a good ebul boogieman to scare everyone straight with. Slavers were their allies, and they committed multiple war crimes throughout the series.

And to provide justification for the various acts of anti-alien discrimination that the Empire engaged in. Notice how aside from the Jedi just about everyone involved in the Republic military is a human or human clone.

[Tarsonis]

Honestly the Hutts might have actually been the best government. Yeah they tolerate scum and villainy, but for the most part that means most people just get left alone.

[The Restored Danelaw]

I mean. They were literally cartoonishly evil. Sure, a large part of this was because The Clone Wars is, at its heart, Republic Propaganda but the CIS's primary purpose was to justify further centralisation of power in the Republic under Palpatine and to play a good ebul boogieman to scare everyone straight with. Slavers were their allies, and they committed multiple war crimes throughout the series.

And to provide justification for the various acts of anti-alien discrimination that the Empire engaged in. Notice how aside from the Jedi just about everyone involved in the Republic military is a human or human clone.

Which is ironic given the guy de jure in charge of it was basically about as human supremacist as the Empire. Mind you, I'm not sure if the CIS wouldn't become better than the Republic if it had been a good faith attempt -as in, if it had ever defined a set of borders and entrenched itself in (rather than constantly expanding the war beyond the scope it was meant to have) and actually got around to design a civilian system of government for itself. But so long as it exists within the canon boundaries, by its very nature it can't be "good". It wasn't designed to be so.

[Imperial Rifta]

I agree that it was a bad idea to destroy Alderaan. What I’m suggesting in total is that the Empire didn’t massacre and kill without reason. It’s reasons didn’t justify going as far as they did killing and all, but they still believed that their actions were justified.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I agree that it was a bad idea to destroy Alderaan. What I’m suggesting in total is that the Empire didn’t massacre and kill without reason. It’s reasons didn’t justify going as far as they did killing and all, but they still believed that their actions were justified.

And the Nazis believed the Holocaust was justified.

[Imperial Rifta]

they massacred their own supporters on antar 4

Also they killed who knows how many of their own men on Scarif when they fired on the planet with the Deathstar as Tarkin wanted to kill Krennic to end their own personal rivalry.

It sure as hell wasnt to beat the Rebels as the overwhelming majority of the rebel ground forces present on Scarif were dead at that point.

Would Tarkin know that Krennic was on the tower though? I’ve always believed he knew that the Rebellion was going to send the message, so he destroyed the satellite. I know that he believed that the Empire was the “greater good” and he didn’t care if the troopers died, as long as the Death Star was safe. And as expensive as it was, he had good reason. Also, would he have known that the rebellion was defeated, as far as we knew, it could’ve been a few million rebels that were going to take the entire facility.

[The Restored Danelaw]

Also they killed who knows how many of their own men on Scarif when they fired on the planet with the Deathstar as Tarkin wanted to kill Krennic to end their own personal rivalry.

It sure as hell wasnt to beat the Rebels as the overwhelming majority of the rebel ground forces present on Scarif were dead at that point.

Would Tarkin know that Krennic was on the tower though? I’ve always believed he knew that the Rebellion was going to send the message, so he destroyed the satellite. I know that he believed that the Empire was the “greater good” and he didn’t care if the troopers died, as long as the Death Star was safe. And as expensive as it was, he had good reason. Also, would he have known that the rebellion was defeated, as far as we knew, it could’ve been a few million rebels that were going to take the entire facility.

He knew how many soldiers were on Scarif. Or at least how many there could be, given he knew what ships had made land (or were even in the battlefield) and what classification each of them were in (namely how many personnel they could each hold at most). And this is ignoring the fact that we know through the novelisations that Tarkin knew very well what he was doing while blowing up both Scarif (petty grudges against a political rival) and Alderaan (petty grudges against Leia).

[Imperial Rifta]

I just think of Governor Pryce and Admiral Konstantine, who through their insistence on personal glory and personal vendetta actively fucked up the best way the Empire had of fighting the rebels.

I can’t agree more to that.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Also they killed who knows how many of their own men on Scarif when they fired on the planet with the Deathstar as Tarkin wanted to kill Krennic to end their own personal rivalry.

It sure as hell wasnt to beat the Rebels as the overwhelming majority of the rebel ground forces present on Scarif were dead at that point.

Would Tarkin know that Krennic was on the tower though? I’ve always believed he knew that the Rebellion was going to send the message, so he destroyed the satellite. I know that he believed that the Empire was the “greater good” and he didn’t care if the troopers died, as long as the Death Star was safe. And as expensive as it was, he had good reason. Also, would he have known that the rebellion was defeated, as far as we knew, it could’ve been a few million rebels that were going to take the entire facility.

He did know Krennic was there, he was told Krennic went to Scarif earlier in the movie when he was informed the Rebels attacked it.

[Imperial Rifta]

Would Tarkin know that Krennic was on the tower though? I’ve always believed he knew that the Rebellion was going to send the message, so he destroyed the satellite. I know that he believed that the Empire was the “greater good” and he didn’t care if the troopers died, as long as the Death Star was safe. And as expensive as it was, he had good reason. Also, would he have known that the rebellion was defeated, as far as we knew, it could’ve been a few million rebels that were going to take the entire facility.

He knew how many soldiers were on Scarif. Or at least how many there could be, given he knew what ships had made land (or were even in the battlefield) and what classification each of them were in (namely how many personnel they could each hold at most). And this is ignoring the fact that we know through the novelisations that Tarkin knew very well what he was doing while blowing up both Scarif (petty grudges against a political rival) and Alderaan (petty grudges against Leia).

The Empire stopped to count how many rebel ships flew through when the Rebel fleet arrived? I think that they knew that fighters and a few transports flew through. They knew it wasn’t tons, but it could’ve been a good many. I think that the Death Star on Scarif was a bad idea too, because they could’ve used a bomber or something just to take out Erso. The one striker tried to, but he only did once, instead of coming back again.

[Imperial Rifta]

Would Tarkin know that Krennic was on the tower though? I’ve always believed he knew that the Rebellion was going to send the message, so he destroyed the satellite. I know that he believed that the Empire was the “greater good” and he didn’t care if the troopers died, as long as the Death Star was safe. And as expensive as it was, he had good reason. Also, would he have known that the rebellion was defeated, as far as we knew, it could’ve been a few million rebels that were going to take the entire facility.

He did know Krennic was there, he was told Krennic went to Scarif earlier in the movie when he was informed the Rebels attacked it.

I’m referring to Krennic up at the top of the tower. For all Tarkin knew Krennic could be evacuating on the far side of the base right?

[Ah General Kenobi]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

Well you say that but the CIS committed war crimes every five minutes.

clone wars were brutal yeah but then again the republic also committed war crimes

[Ah General Kenobi]

im not sure how anyone can look at the star wars universe and not conclude that the cis, while flawed, was ultimately the best government
the old republic was corrupt and inept
the empire was genocidal, corrupt, and inept
the new republic was corrupt, inept, and stupid
the new order is corrupt, inept, stupid and genocidal

I mean. They were literally cartoonishly evil. Sure, a large part of this was because The Clone Wars is, at its heart, Republic Propaganda but the CIS's primary purpose was to justify further centralisation of power in the Republic under Palpatine and to play a good ebul boogieman to scare everyone straight with. Slavers were their allies, and they committed multiple war crimes throughout the series.

"slavers were their allies" and so was the case with the republic. the republic allied with the hutt crime family not to mention having an entire army of slave soldiers fighting and dying for them.

[Ah General Kenobi]

I agree that it was a bad idea to destroy Alderaan. What I’m suggesting in total is that the Empire didn’t massacre and kill without reason. It’s reasons didn’t justify going as far as they did killing and all, but they still believed that their actions were justified.

antar 4