Star Wars: This is The Way

[Tarsonis]

It's not that far off tbh. It's the kinda like Star Wars version of accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour on your deathbed.

Not really? There's no paradise afterlife for Force users. Everything that dies becomes one with the Force, except those corrupted by the Dark Side. They don't get an afterlife; they cease to be entirely. Vader's commitment to the Dark Side began to wane after he discovered he had a son, and he finally broke free from that corruption thus cheating oblivion. Being a Force user, this also meant he could project himself into the realm of the living - but only if he absolutely needed to (i.e. had unfinished business)

Whether you think that's fair or not is irrelevant. It's not really a reward. Maybe his soul deserved to be obliterated, maybe not. Regardless there is no "Jedi Heaven". Everything becomes one with the Force in the end (except anything immersed in the Dark Side) but only Force-users can project themselves in the realm of the living. As the Force is essentially the invisible fabric of the universe and flows through everything--living and dead--then it's more like he became sentient matter than a proper afterlife.

The Heaven and Hell dichotomy doesn't translate well into the nature of the Force. Good people don't get eternal paradise and bad people don't get eternal suffering. People, in general, become the background static of existence with only the ones who were magic space wizards being able to visit life if they're too restless to stay at peace and anything that is a product of the Dark Side or was corrupted by it is basically erased from existence entirely.

Vader cheated obliteration by severing the hold the Dark Side had over him. That means he gets to be a Force ghost.

This doesn't square with how CWs explained it. In CWs, everything loses consciousness after death, and they return to the cosmic force. Those few that are able to manifest after death have learned the secret way, which is to become totally in harmony with the force and totally accepting of their death. Quigon totally surrendered to death against Maul, Obi-wan surrendered to death against Vader, Yoda to his natural death. Anakin lucked out similar to Quigon did, in that in his last moments killing the emperor to save his son, letting go of all that hate, he found the peace that allowed him to surrender to death. The sith don't get it because to them the Force is a tool to be exploited, not an entity to be embraced.

It's a twisted bit of irony that the people who want to exist forever cease to exist, while the people who don't care, get the immortality

[HC Eredivisie]

Not really? There's no paradise afterlife for Force users. Everything that dies becomes one with the Force, except those corrupted by the Dark Side. They don't get an afterlife; they cease to be entirely. Vader's commitment to the Dark Side began to wane after he discovered he had a son, and he finally broke free from that corruption thus cheating oblivion. Being a Force user, this also meant he could project himself into the realm of the living - but only if he absolutely needed to (i.e. had unfinished business)

Whether you think that's fair or not is irrelevant. It's not really a reward. Maybe his soul deserved to be obliterated, maybe not. Regardless there is no "Jedi Heaven". Everything becomes one with the Force in the end (except anything immersed in the Dark Side) but only Force-users can project themselves in the realm of the living. As the Force is essentially the invisible fabric of the universe and flows through everything--living and dead--then it's more like he became sentient matter than a proper afterlife.

The Heaven and Hell dichotomy doesn't translate well into the nature of the Force. Good people don't get eternal paradise and bad people don't get eternal suffering. People, in general, become the background static of existence with only the ones who were magic space wizards being able to visit life if they're too restless to stay at peace and anything that is a product of the Dark Side or was corrupted by it is basically erased from existence entirely.

Vader cheated obliteration by severing the hold the Dark Side had over him. That means he gets to be a Force ghost.

This doesn't square with how CWs explained it. In CWs, everything loses consciousness after death, and they return to the cosmic force. Those few that are able to manifest after death have learned the secret way, which is to become totally in harmony with the force and totally accepting of their death. Quigon totally surrendered to death against Maul, Obi-wan surrendered to death against Vader, Yoda to his natural death. Anakin lucked out similar to Quigon did, in that in his last moments killing the emperor to save his son, letting go of all that hate, he found the peace that allowed him to surrender to death. The sith don't get it because to them the Force is a tool to be exploited, not an entity to be embraced.

It's a twisted bit of irony that the people who want to exist forever cease to exist, while the people who don't care, get the immortality

I don't see why a Sith couldn't achieve harmony with the Force and accept his death to become a Force ghost. It might be hard for them but not impossible.

Also, did we discuss Grogu Force choking that Stormtrooper or do we don't care about that?

[Tarsonis]

This doesn't square with how CWs explained it. In CWs, everything loses consciousness after death, and they return to the cosmic force. Those few that are able to manifest after death have learned the secret way, which is to become totally in harmony with the force and totally accepting of their death. Quigon totally surrendered to death against Maul, Obi-wan surrendered to death against Vader, Yoda to his natural death. Anakin lucked out similar to Quigon did, in that in his last moments killing the emperor to save his son, letting go of all that hate, he found the peace that allowed him to surrender to death. The sith don't get it because to them the Force is a tool to be exploited, not an entity to be embraced.

It's a twisted bit of irony that the people who want to exist forever cease to exist, while the people who don't care, get the immortality

I don't see why a Sith couldn't achieve harmony with the Force and accept his death to become a Force ghost. It might be hard for them but not impossible.

Also, did we discuss Grogu Force choking that Stormtrooper or do we don't care about that?

Letting go of Fear is vital, and Fear is the path to the Dark Side

[Alvecia]

It's not that far off tbh. It's the kinda like Star Wars version of accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour on your deathbed.

Not really? There's no paradise afterlife for Force users. Everything that dies becomes one with the Force, except those corrupted by the Dark Side. They don't get an afterlife; they cease to be entirely. Vader's commitment to the Dark Side began to wane after he discovered he had a son, and he finally broke free from that corruption thus cheating oblivion. Being a Force user, this also meant he could project himself into the realm of the living - but only if he absolutely needed to (i.e. had unfinished business)

Whether you think that's fair or not is irrelevant. It's not really a reward. Maybe his soul deserved to be obliterated, maybe not. Regardless there is no "Jedi Heaven". Everything becomes one with the Force in the end (except anything immersed in the Dark Side) but only Force-users can project themselves in the realm of the living. As the Force is essentially the invisible fabric of the universe and flows through everything--living and dead--then it's more like he became sentient matter than a proper afterlife.

The Heaven and Hell dichotomy doesn't translate well into the nature of the Force. Good people don't get eternal paradise and bad people don't get eternal suffering. People, in general, become the background static of existence with only the ones who were magic space wizards being able to visit life if they're too restless to stay at peace and anything that is a product of the Dark Side or was corrupted by it is basically erased from existence entirely.

Vader cheated obliteration by severing the hold the Dark Side had over him. That means he gets to be a Force ghost.

The afterlife/heaven allusions were mostly tongue in cheek, but they're not entirely untrue. I would argue that at least the films frame it as the kind of thing that only the good and wise can achieve.

I'm getting this from Wookiepedia, so take that for what you will, but it claims thus:

...This knowledge could be learned only by those who fully embraced the light side of the Force, such as the Jedi who lived by a code of selflessness and sacrifice. The followers of the dark side of the Force, such as the Sith, were incapable of learning this power.

It just doesn't jive well with me that despite all the things he did, this one selfless act was enough to "fully embrace the Light". It cheapens concept, and the idea that one must be a good Jedi, or even a good person, to achieve this.
It gives the impression (me the impression at any rate), that achieving Force Ghost status isn't really all that difficult, doesn't require all that much work, but instead is just newly discovered.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

I hate how the jedi preach balance but then don't accept the siths place in the galaxy. While the lore gives us no afterlife for the sith.I imagine since the jedi become one with the force the sith do too. It can just end for them just like it doeent just end for the jedi.Perhaps the sith become one with the force in different ways. For instants maybe a jedi's "soul" can be communicated with on peacful planets like dagobah while sith can only be found in harsh areas or something along those lines. And maybe the sith "heaven" is also like that too. For instants maybe they have a diminesion kinda like that one Clone wars episode where half the planet was lush forest and the other half was volcanic. Balance means balance and star wars doesn't really portray the sith as the balance of the jedi.

The series seems to act like the jedi are good and sith are bad. But from other discriptions the force is niether good or bad and that the flow of the force is in all things. Judging by that good things like a cool breeze and soft rain are tempered with a hurricane and flood. Sith are a natural part of the balance and therefore are just like a hurricane destroying everything in its path. The sith are agents of the force as well in this point of view....holy cow did I just turn myself into a sith?

[The Imperial Reach]

Honestly how the Force works has been explained so many times in so many contradictory ways since day 1.

IIRC Lucas himself said that there is no "Light Side" of the Force and that the Dark Side is more like a cancer than an opposite power. So it's not Yin and Yang so much as it is Purity and Corruption, with the Jedi adhering to the Force itself while the Sith corrupt it. "Balance in the Force" thus means an absence of the Dark Side, which was in and of itself an imbalance. But then a bunch of other writers got confused and we got this generic "Light v. Dark/Good v. Evil/Yin and Yang" dualistic dichotomy that Western Civilization was more familiar with.

Personally I like the former idea more than the latter. The Dark Side being more like an infectious growth or a tumor or something rather than one side of a whole. It helps paint the understanding that those who follow the Dark Side are "lost" and how one "falls" to it's influence rather than joins willing. The rhetoric that both Jedi and Sith use makes a lot more sense this way, and it better explains why and how the Dark Side takes a toll on one's body and soul.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Honestly how the Force works has been explained so many times in so many contradictory ways since day 1.

IIRC Lucas himself said that there is no "Light Side" of the Force and that the Dark Side is more like a cancer than an opposite power. So it's not Yin and Yang so much as it is Purity and Corruption, with the Jedi adhering to the Force itself while the Sith corrupt it. "Balance in the Force" thus means an absence of the Dark Side, which was in and of itself an imbalance. But then a bunch of other writers got confused and we got this generic "Light v. Dark/Good v. Evil/Yin and Yang" dualistic dichotomy that Western Civilization was more familiar with.

Personally I like the former idea more than the latter. The Dark Side being more like an infectious growth or a tumor or something rather than one side of a whole. It helps paint the understanding that those who follow the Dark Side are "lost" and how one "falls" to it's influence rather than joins willing. The rhetoric that both Jedi and Sith use makes a lot more sense this way, and it better explains why and how the Dark Side takes a toll on one's body and soul.

But thats my point it wasn't balanced and the universe made it so. The universe wants balance so even though the dark side didn't exist at first doesn't mean its a cancer. It helps just as a wild fire kills anything in its path but also makes the forest revitalized. Sith burn throughout the galaxy anytime the lightside gets to complacent and vice versa. They literally cannot wipe each other out its nt the universes will. The jedi need to come to terms with the balance and accept the sith and unite their religions so they can better understand the force. The sith need to be more aware that the jedi are just as.powerful and in many ways equal with how they view things.

That's another reason why I was upset that the newest trilogy wasn't a sith one. I wanted to see from a siths perspective( not a rule of two sith because they are clearly a blood thristy cult) on how the force speaks to them and what they would do in certain situations. Like I want the next trilogy to start right after a long reign of jedi in the galaxy and many systems are beggining to hate the jedis interference and then the force brings a chosen one for the sith to power. Not sure of the details but I would like to see more of a religious view into the star wars universe unlike disneys "pew pew pew...boom" sci fi gasm. Of course a little bit goes a long way.

[Tarsonis]

the bendu is true balance.

[Andsed]

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

(Image)

Did he really though?
Legally he used his emergency powers to change the laws and allowed himself to stay in power while legally changing its democratic ways. From a purly legal stand point he technically did nothing wrong other than funnel money to the enemy. If he was tried in court he might actually get aquitted. Especially since there wouldn't be enough evidence lol

[Tarsonis]

[Andsed]

(Image)

Did he really though?
Legally he used his emergency powers to change the laws and allowed himself to stay in power while legally changing its democratic ways. From a purly legal stand point he technically did nothing wrong other than funnel money to the enemy. If he was tried in court he might actually get aquitted. Especially since there wouldn't be enough evidence lol

I was more referring to the small matter of giving orders to Dooku the CIS, who were kinda actively at war against the Republic. I am no legal expert but I am pretty sure working with people who are actively at war with your government is like textbook treason.

(Image)
(Image)

Beautiful.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Did he really though?
Legally he used his emergency powers to change the laws and allowed himself to stay in power while legally changing its democratic ways. From a purly legal stand point he technically did nothing wrong other than funnel money to the enemy. If he was tried in court he might actually get aquitted. Especially since there wouldn't be enough evidence lol

I was more referring to the small matter of giving orders to Dooku the CIS, who were kinda actively at war against the Republic. I am no legal expert but I am pretty sure working with people who are actively at war with your government is like textbook treason.

(Image)
(Image)

Beautiful.

True. I guess he can legalise his way out of that one
Score one for the prosecutors lol

[Tarsonis]

who's in the mood for a throwback?

https://youtu.be/PGYAPr6UKhs

[Tarsonis]

sigh, I love this movie but was the musical number really necessary addition?

[Tarsonis]

God the way they combined paintings and practical editing effects to create a full hanger is just genius

[Alvecia]

I hate how the jedi preach balance but then don't accept the siths place in the galaxy. While the lore gives us no afterlife for the sith.I imagine since the jedi become one with the force the sith do too. It can just end for them just like it doeent just end for the jedi.Perhaps the sith become one with the force in different ways. For instants maybe a jedi's "soul" can be communicated with on peacful planets like dagobah while sith can only be found in harsh areas or something along those lines. And maybe the sith "heaven" is also like that too. For instants maybe they have a diminesion kinda like that one Clone wars episode where half the planet was lush forest and the other half was volcanic. Balance means balance and star wars doesn't really portray the sith as the balance of the jedi.

The series seems to act like the jedi are good and sith are bad. But from other discriptions the force is niether good or bad and that the flow of the force is in all things. Judging by that good things like a cool breeze and soft rain are tempered with a hurricane and flood. Sith are a natural part of the balance and therefore are just like a hurricane destroying everything in its path. The sith are agents of the force as well in this point of view....holy cow did I just turn myself into a sith?

To be fair, a lot of what we know of "the Jedi" comes from Prequel/Clone Wars era, and those are basically the story of how the Jedi have lost their way, so it's not best representative of what their philosophy should be, if you get me.

[The Restored Danelaw]

I hate how the jedi preach balance but then don't accept the siths place in the galaxy. While the lore gives us no afterlife for the sith.I imagine since the jedi become one with the force the sith do too. It can just end for them just like it doeent just end for the jedi.Perhaps the sith become one with the force in different ways. For instants maybe a jedi's "soul" can be communicated with on peacful planets like dagobah while sith can only be found in harsh areas or something along those lines. And maybe the sith "heaven" is also like that too. For instants maybe they have a diminesion kinda like that one Clone wars episode where half the planet was lush forest and the other half was volcanic. Balance means balance and star wars doesn't really portray the sith as the balance of the jedi.

The series seems to act like the jedi are good and sith are bad. But from other discriptions the force is niether good or bad and that the flow of the force is in all things. Judging by that good things like a cool breeze and soft rain are tempered with a hurricane and flood. Sith are a natural part of the balance and therefore are just like a hurricane destroying everything in its path. The sith are agents of the force as well in this point of view....holy cow did I just turn myself into a sith?

Ok but. The Sith are literally anathema to balance. You can't have "light side and dark". The Dark is symptomatic of a lack of balance. Is the Jedi's near-genocidal view of all form of non-orthodox use of Force (not just "the Dark Side", per se) right? No. But like. You can't have balance if there are Sith around.

[The Imperial Reach]

Honestly how the Force works has been explained so many times in so many contradictory ways since day 1.

IIRC Lucas himself said that there is no "Light Side" of the Force and that the Dark Side is more like a cancer than an opposite power. So it's not Yin and Yang so much as it is Purity and Corruption, with the Jedi adhering to the Force itself while the Sith corrupt it. "Balance in the Force" thus means an absence of the Dark Side, which was in and of itself an imbalance. But then a bunch of other writers got confused and we got this generic "Light v. Dark/Good v. Evil/Yin and Yang" dualistic dichotomy that Western Civilization was more familiar with.

Personally I like the former idea more than the latter. The Dark Side being more like an infectious growth or a tumor or something rather than one side of a whole. It helps paint the understanding that those who follow the Dark Side are "lost" and how one "falls" to it's influence rather than joins willing. The rhetoric that both Jedi and Sith use makes a lot more sense this way, and it better explains why and how the Dark Side takes a toll on one's body and soul.

But thats my point it wasn't balanced and the universe made it so. The universe wants balance so even though the dark side didn't exist at first doesn't mean its a cancer. It helps just as a wild fire kills anything in its path but also makes the forest revitalized. Sith burn throughout the galaxy anytime the lightside gets to complacent and vice versa. They literally cannot wipe each other out its nt the universes will. The jedi need to come to terms with the balance and accept the sith and unite their religions so they can better understand the force. The sith need to be more aware that the jedi are just as.powerful and in many ways equal with how they view things.

That's another reason why I was upset that the newest trilogy wasn't a sith one. I wanted to see from a siths perspective( not a rule of two sith because they are clearly a blood thristy cult) on how the force speaks to them and what they would do in certain situations. Like I want the next trilogy to start right after a long reign of jedi in the galaxy and many systems are beggining to hate the jedis interference and then the force brings a chosen one for the sith to power. Not sure of the details but I would like to see more of a religious view into the star wars universe unlike disneys "pew pew pew...boom" sci fi gasm. Of course a little bit goes a long way.

I don't think you understand. Lucas himself said the Dark Side was a cancer. It's not a matter of opinion. He invented the Force, he gets to dictate how it works. Disney can legally change it since they own the rights but the creator's canon takes precedent for me so I really don't care what they think.

I don't he this sympathetic view you have for the Sith. They quite literally are a blood thirsty, psychopathic, slaving, warmongering, powermongering fascist death cult. They have always been this. That aspect of their order never changed. The Rule of Two changed how they operated, not their philosophy. They're quite literally the same in Rise of Skywalker as they were when they formed the first Sith Empire thousands of years before.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

But thats my point it wasn't balanced and the universe made it so. The universe wants balance so even though the dark side didn't exist at first doesn't mean its a cancer. It helps just as a wild fire kills anything in its path but also makes the forest revitalized. Sith burn throughout the galaxy anytime the lightside gets to complacent and vice versa. They literally cannot wipe each other out its nt the universes will. The jedi need to come to terms with the balance and accept the sith and unite their religions so they can better understand the force. The sith need to be more aware that the jedi are just as.powerful and in many ways equal with how they view things.

That's another reason why I was upset that the newest trilogy wasn't a sith one. I wanted to see from a siths perspective( not a rule of two sith because they are clearly a blood thristy cult) on how the force speaks to them and what they would do in certain situations. Like I want the next trilogy to start right after a long reign of jedi in the galaxy and many systems are beggining to hate the jedis interference and then the force brings a chosen one for the sith to power. Not sure of the details but I would like to see more of a religious view into the star wars universe unlike disneys "pew pew pew...boom" sci fi gasm. Of course a little bit goes a long way.

I don't think you understand. Lucas himself said the Dark Side was a cancer. It's not a matter of opinion. He invented the Force, he gets to dictate how it works. Disney can legally change it since they own the rights but the creator's canon takes precedent for me so I really don't care what they think.

I don't he this sympathetic view you have for the Sith. They quite literally are a blood thirsty, psychopathic, slaving, warmongering, powermongering fascist death cult. They have always been this. That aspect of their order never changed. The Rule of Two changed how they operated, not their philosophy. They're quite literally the same in Rise of Skywalker as they were when they formed the first Sith Empire thousands of years before.

Well its because the force doesn't state its opinion....even in that clone war episode where they met the Force embodied. Remeber that was under george lucas. They didn't portray the sit as something that wasn't suppose to exist. The dark and the light both had a place in that realm. And if you remeber in the original trilogy obi wan says "The force sourround penatrates and binds the universe togather" my interpretation is that with are a part of the togatherness. They aren't bad or good and niether are the jedi. Both are a religion that worships different aspects of the same coin. The with spred disorder and chaos and the jedi try to counter it.

As for my affection for them I think it stems from the lack of coverage from their point of view. Much of the siths practices were scewed and distorted by the jedi and republic Either by war or by other means. I feel if maybe I could see more of what the Sith believe I could either leave my facination with them or delve deeper. I mean think about the Siths history they developed first as a jedi an then start usi g the force...a natural phenomenon....in ways the church didn't approve of.( Did I just say church?) Then they get excommunicated from the jedaii order, much like RL "heritics", but tyhink about all the historcial excomunications most of them are politically fuelled and buisness more than religious reasons. I think the grey jedi were kicked out soley due to infighting in the jedi order but the jedi aren't going to come out and say that. So the grey jedi then get banish to the edge of the galaxy find the species called Sith and become their God emperors. There they discover the limit of what they can do and then seek revenge on the jedi that threw them out. Over time of course the jedi and Sith waged war and advanced in their war ability Which leads to more and more radical and dangerous was.of using the force. You can't blame the with for wanting revenge and you can't blame the jedi for maintaining order. The jedi belived the force was Good and peacful....but nothing is one sided. The sith needed to exist for the force to be whole. The with have a great history the the republic literally won't allow any one to know because then the jedi would look like oppressive religious cult. The Sith merely want to explore and understand ALL aspects of the force. The jedi are timid and satisfied with the power they had but the Sith were constanly pushing the envolope. I admire the Sith and belive had the jedi actually let them explore the dark side the galaxy would be at peace. Luke in the original canon made his jedi order exactly like that. You could follow the path of the dark side but still be apart of the force. I believe luke would have ended the radical Sith movement

[The Imperial Reach]

I don't think you understand. Lucas himself said the Dark Side was a cancer. It's not a matter of opinion. He invented the Force, he gets to dictate how it works. Disney can legally change it since they own the rights but the creator's canon takes precedent for me so I really don't care what they think.

I don't he this sympathetic view you have for the Sith. They quite literally are a blood thirsty, psychopathic, slaving, warmongering, powermongering fascist death cult. They have always been this. That aspect of their order never changed. The Rule of Two changed how they operated, not their philosophy. They're quite literally the same in Rise of Skywalker as they were when they formed the first Sith Empire thousands of years before.

Well its because the force doesn't state its opinion....even in that clone war episode where they met the Force embodied. Remeber that was under george lucas. They didn't portray the sit as something that wasn't suppose to exist. The dark and the light both had a place in that realm. And if you remeber in the original trilogy obi wan says "The force sourround penatrates and binds the universe togather" my interpretation is that with are a part of the togatherness. They aren't bad or good and niether are the jedi. Both are a religion that worships different aspects of the same coin. The with spred disorder and chaos and the jedi try to counter it.

As for my affection for them I think it stems from the lack of coverage from their point of view. Much of the siths practices were scewed and distorted by the jedi and republic Either by war or by other means. I feel if maybe I could see more of what the Sith believe I could either leave my facination with them or delve deeper. I mean think about the Siths history they developed first as a jedi an then start usi g the force...a natural phenomenon....in ways the church didn't approve of.( Did I just say church?) Then they get excommunicated from the jedaii order, much like RL "heritics", but tyhink about all the historcial excomunications most of them are politically fuelled and buisness more than religious reasons. I think the grey jedi were kicked out soley due to infighting in the jedi order but the jedi aren't going to come out and say that. So the grey jedi then get banish to the edge of the galaxy find the species called Sith and become their God emperors. There they discover the limit of what they can do and then seek revenge on the jedi that threw them out. Over time of course the jedi and Sith waged war and advanced in their war ability Which leads to more and more radical and dangerous was.of using the force. You can't blame the with for wanting revenge and you can't blame the jedi for maintaining order. The jedi belived the force was Good and peacful....but nothing is one sided. The sith needed to exist for the force to be whole. The with have a great history the the republic literally won't allow any one to know because then the jedi would look like oppressive religious cult. The Sith merely want to explore and understand ALL aspects of the force. The jedi are timid and satisfied with the power they had but the Sith were constanly pushing the envolope. I admire the Sith and belive had the jedi actually let them explore the dark side the galaxy would be at peace. Luke in the original canon made his jedi order exactly like that. You could follow the path of the dark side but still be apart of the force. I believe luke would have ended the radical Sith movement

Have you, like, never consumed any Star Wars media outside of the TV shows and movies? Because the Sith have always been evil. Pure and simple. That's not Jedi propaganda; they have literally always been pure evil. Lucas himself said as much. The old EU said as much. Even Disney says as much.

It's not a matter of "equal forces" or "respect my religion" no matter how much they try to push it on us. The Dark Side is quite literally a blight on the galaxy that needs to be destroyed. It is pure evil embodied, plain and simple. With the Dark Side comes pain and suffering; death and destruction. Dark Side users are evil. It's really not up for debate.

The Dark Side is evil.

[The Huskar Social Union]

The Dark Side is evil.

And thats hot.

[Andsed]

I wonder if their ever going to do anything with Bariss. Like we have not heard anything about her in quite some time. Definitely seems like good material for a comic series or something. Or maybe an appearance in the Ahsoka series.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Well its because the force doesn't state its opinion....even in that clone war episode where they met the Force embodied. Remeber that was under george lucas. They didn't portray the sit as something that wasn't suppose to exist. The dark and the light both had a place in that realm. And if you remeber in the original trilogy obi wan says "The force sourround penatrates and binds the universe togather" my interpretation is that with are a part of the togatherness. They aren't bad or good and niether are the jedi. Both are a religion that worships different aspects of the same coin. The with spred disorder and chaos and the jedi try to counter it.

As for my affection for them I think it stems from the lack of coverage from their point of view. Much of the siths practices were scewed and distorted by the jedi and republic Either by war or by other means. I feel if maybe I could see more of what the Sith believe I could either leave my facination with them or delve deeper. I mean think about the Siths history they developed first as a jedi an then start usi g the force...a natural phenomenon....in ways the church didn't approve of.( Did I just say church?) Then they get excommunicated from the jedaii order, much like RL "heritics", but tyhink about all the historcial excomunications most of them are politically fuelled and buisness more than religious reasons. I think the grey jedi were kicked out soley due to infighting in the jedi order but the jedi aren't going to come out and say that. So the grey jedi then get banish to the edge of the galaxy find the species called Sith and become their God emperors. There they discover the limit of what they can do and then seek revenge on the jedi that threw them out. Over time of course the jedi and Sith waged war and advanced in their war ability Which leads to more and more radical and dangerous was.of using the force. You can't blame the with for wanting revenge and you can't blame the jedi for maintaining order. The jedi belived the force was Good and peacful....but nothing is one sided. The sith needed to exist for the force to be whole. The with have a great history the the republic literally won't allow any one to know because then the jedi would look like oppressive religious cult. The Sith merely want to explore and understand ALL aspects of the force. The jedi are timid and satisfied with the power they had but the Sith were constanly pushing the envolope. I admire the Sith and belive had the jedi actually let them explore the dark side the galaxy would be at peace. Luke in the original canon made his jedi order exactly like that. You could follow the path of the dark side but still be apart of the force. I believe luke would have ended the radical Sith movement

Have you, like, never consumed any Star Wars media outside of the TV shows and movies? Because the Sith have always been evil. Pure and simple. That's not Jedi propaganda; they have literally always been pure evil. Lucas himself said as much. The old EU said as much. Even Disney says as much.

It's not a matter of "equal forces" or "respect my religion" no matter how much they try to push it on us. The Dark Side is quite literally a blight on the galaxy that needs to be destroyed. It is pure evil embodied, plain and simple. With the Dark Side comes pain and suffering; death and destruction. Dark Side users are evil. It's really not up for debate.

The Dark Side is evil.

Dude there now way in hell I got all the information from just the clones wars.
If the clone wars were that detailed and lore focused on with it would have been a lot more interesting.
Also I don't accept the end for with is just death. Doesn't fit in with all the things that happened in the EU. With and their force spirit linger and hood sway thousands of years after their death. Did you not remeber the Ragnos resurrection story line from the New republic? And what about Treya and Reven both of them influence the force in ways that ripple through the ages. While I wouldn't want to be a sith I would want to study them because there are some epic things they do and fairly logical opproaches they have to certain situations that I completly agree with. They aren't evil...the jedi kill just as many people every time there is a republic crisis and let slavery ravage none important planets for the sake of republic luxuries. No side can coaim the moral high ground in the prequals or the old republic. The empire commited the same atrocities the Republic commited and the Sepratist made. You can't really say one is better.

Oh and from this point on just assume that i m not talking about disney(unless I'm crapping on it) because I'm one of the peopl here that really hate disneyS lore.

[The Imperial Reach]

Have you, like, never consumed any Star Wars media outside of the TV shows and movies? Because the Sith have always been evil. Pure and simple. That's not Jedi propaganda; they have literally always been pure evil. Lucas himself said as much. The old EU said as much. Even Disney says as much.

It's not a matter of "equal forces" or "respect my religion" no matter how much they try to push it on us. The Dark Side is quite literally a blight on the galaxy that needs to be destroyed. It is pure evil embodied, plain and simple. With the Dark Side comes pain and suffering; death and destruction. Dark Side users are evil. It's really not up for debate.

The Dark Side is evil.

Dude there now way in hell I got all the information from just the clones wars.
If the clone wars were that detailed and lore focused on with it would have been a lot more interesting.
Also I don't accept the end for with is just death. Doesn't fit in with all the things that happened in the EU. With and their force spirit linger and hood sway thousands of years after their death. Did you not remeber the Ragnos resurrection story line from the New republic? And what about Treya and Reven both of them influence the force in ways that ripple through the ages. While I wouldn't want to be a sith I would want to study them because there are some epic things they do and fairly logical opproaches they have to certain situations that I completly agree with. They aren't evil...the jedi kill just as many people every time there is a republic crisis and let slavery ravage none important planets for the sake of republic luxuries. No side can coaim the moral high ground in the prequals or the old republic. The empire commited the same atrocities the Republic commited and the Sepratist made. You can't really say one is better.

Oh and from this point on just assume that i m not talking about disney(unless I'm crapping on it) because I'm one of the peopl here that really hate disneyS lore.

Bro, the lore is a fucking mess. Let's be honest here. We've had hundreds of different people messing with it because Lucas never properly cleared up certain things in his universe, leaving lots of holes and confusion. It's important to note the Lucas never really cared about the EU stuff; he never considered it canon nor did directly oversee everything they did. He served in an advisory capacity for some of the various EU works but he didn't have a hands-on approach to everything besides specific rules against things like Wookiee Jedi. For the most part, he let the EU run wild and while this gave us lots of high-quality stuff it also meant he wasn't there to clarify certain things 100% of the time leaving room for numerous retcons, contradictions, and inconsistencies. The EU was, in general, pretty great but it still had holes in it.

But he is on record as stating that the Dark Side was always meant to be a cancer; pure evil. That the Jedi--though flawed--were right in that Balance in the Force existed only when the Dark Side was completely absent and as the Sith were an embodiment of the Dark Side they must be destroyed totally and utterly in order for true balance to be restored. This is what Lucas himself stated and, in his own words, he never considered anything outside his own movies to be *his* version of Star Wars. If he liked something in the EU he'd add it in himself, and he did this with several of the Prequels, but otherwise he considered a different version of Star Wars than from the one he created - i.e., fan fiction. This understanding of the Force--that Lucas himself explained--was what he intended to be the truth, and none of his movies contradict this view. Every single one of them portray the Sith and the Dark Side as pure evil. That's precisely why they show the story from a Jedi perspective and why there is no mention of a "Light Side" in any of the movies.

This understanding, as originally devised by the creator of Star Wars himself, has been lost in the EU because the EU was not directly made by Lucas. He oversaw some projects and was occasionally heavily involved in some but ultimately he did not dictate how they worked and usually allowed the teams working on them creative liberty to do as they please without interference barring rare exceptions. Now, given this fact, it can be and has been argued that this meant the entire EU was technically non-canon. Lucas took a rather unorthodox approach to dealing with this stuff in that he didn't outright say it wasn't canon but rather that it wasn't *his* version of the canon. In other words, he didn't really care. For him there were the movies he made and nothing else but he let everybody else pick their own stuff. Most of the writers respected each other's works leaving the EU a lot more consistent than it otherwise would have been, but it was also divergent in ways from what Lucas intended. This wasn't always a bad thing as Lucas had some shit ideas at times (like midichlorians) and was known for retconning and creating inconsistencies of his own.

But the original workings of the Force were that there was only the Force and the Dark Side, which presented an imbalance. The Force itself was meant to be balanced by default; the Dark Side--a force of corruption created from attempting to bend the Force to a user's will--tipped the scales out of balance and in favor of darkness and evil. The Jedi treated the Force as a companion, while the Sith treated the Force as a tool. The latter ended up corrupting both their bodies and souls as they distorted the Force for the use of personal gain, the suffering and pain of others, and wanton death and destruction. The Jedi kept balance as they respected the Force. When the Dark Jedi began to pervert it for ignoble causes, they created an imbalance and pretty much ruined everything so they got exiled and became the Sith later on. The Jedi were not "Light Side" because there was no "Light Side"; there was only the Force. This was the way it was always meant to be. The fact that much of the EU contradicts this is totally irrelevant, because the EU was not a product of George Lucas himself. He himself said as much: the movies are his story, the rest are other stories by other people doing their own thing. They're not in his canon.

Now if you want to follow the popular belief that the Dark Side is one half of a whole, that's your prerogative. But don't peddle this "the Sith aren't evil" bullshit because even the EU doesn't agree with that assertion. The Dark Side is virtually never right. The Dark Side is deception, destruction, torture, and death. These are traits of what the Dark Side represents. There are no Dark Side users who do no inflict unnecessary suffering on others. It's literally impossible to be aligned with the Dark Side and not be evil in same way, shape, or form. Even if you accept the Light v. Dark dualistic dichotomy that still doesn't change.

And, frankly, the fact you openly admit you sometimes agree with what the Sith do is pretty fucking disturbing (though maybe I shouldn't be surprised considering you quoted Joseph fucking Stalin in your signature for fuck's sake) considering what they do is enslave entire species, bombard planets until they're uninhabitable, wage genocidal campaigns of ethnic cleansing and extermination, orchestrate wars of conquest of a galactic scale, torture their enemies for information, callously butcher civilians to achieve an objective (or sometimes just for fun), constantly scheme and plot to betray one another and their allies, and a bunch of other totally heinous and downright pure evil supervillain shit all the time. Don't bring the Jedi into this. They aren't perfect, no, and they do bad things too, yes, but their entire philosophy does not revolve around powermongering and domination. The Sith Code does. They are cruel tyrants, butchers, backstabbers, and ruthless killers by default. No matter what way you try to twist the Sith Code this is what they will always be. They were born out of the fusion of the Dark Jedi's dangerous lust for destructive knowledge for personal gain and vanity with the violent, savage warrior culture of the original Sith species on Korriban. These two things created a dangerous death cult of blood thirsty fascists that have been doing nothing but destroying entire worlds, erasing history and culture, and causing endless pain and suffering for no other reason than "MUA HA HA HA, I WANT MORE POWER AND I'll KILL TRILLIONS TO GET IT!"

I really don't get what is so hard to understand about this...