Where are all the Religious topics in Modern Cartoons?

[Stanmenistan]

Cartoons have come a long way in the past decade. Modern children's cartoons seem unafraid to tackle any topic, whether it be Feminism (see My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, Legend of Korra, DC Super Hero Girls (both 2015 and 2019), She-Ra and the Princesses of Power etc.), LGBTQ characters (see Steven Universe, Legend of Korra, Star vs. the Forces of Evil, The Loud House and most of the previous shows I mentioned), Mental Illness (Steven Universe Future, Adventure Time etc.), and Racism (Monster High, Zootopia etc.)

However, one complex topic that cartoons do not often explore nowadays that they once often did in the 90s and 2000s is Religion. I'm not talking about strictly religious cartoons like Veggietales, The Miracle Maker, The Prince of Egypt, Joseph:King of Dreams and Muhammad: The Last Prophet. I'm talking about nominally secular cartoons including characters partaking in religious practices like in X-Men The Animated Series, Static Shock, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Rugrats and Proud Family. Religion is a major part of many people's lives, so why the resistance now? Where are all the Religious Characters and elements in modern cartoons?

[Minoa]

Reverend Lovejoy and Ned Flanders in The Simpsons. I know that Todd, Todd, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me? is one of the latest episodes to address religion.

[Stanmenistan]

Reverend Lovejoy and Ned Flanders in The Simpsons. I know that Todd, Todd, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me? is one of the latest episodes to address religion.

Good point, but I was talking more your nominally all-ages cartoons, rated TV-Y, TV-Y7(-FV) or TV-PG that are aimed at kids. The Simpsons is aimed at teens and adults.

[Myfanwyski]

kinda disappointed that it's kids cartoons- but kinda not- as I'll share it anyway-

https://twitter.com/DavidJWood2/status/ ... 9313813510

[Stanmenistan]

kinda disappointed that it's kids cartoons- but kinda not- as I'll share it anyway-

https://twitter.com/DavidJWood2/status/ ... 9313813510

I am discussing animated cartoons or animation, not newspaper cartoons

[Anollasia]

I'm not surprised that there aren't more religious themes in secular cartoons, especially in today's political climate and the fact that religion can be a divisive topic, unlike something such as mental illness.

I haven't watched too many cartoons from the 2010s and I can't think of any episodes with religious themes. This is a bit older, but the only thing I could think of is the cartoon Arthur. The character Francine is Jewish and so is her family. There was an episode where she has a bar mitzvah and one where she is fasting for Yom Kippur.

[Stanmenistan]

I'm not surprised that there aren't more religious themes in secular cartoons, especially in today's political climate and the fact that religion can be a divisive topic, unlike something such as mental illness

LGBTQ rights, Feminism and Racial tensions are also divisive topics in today's political climate, and we see modern cartoons tackle those all the time. Why the reluctance on Religious diversity, especially when cartoons in the 90s and 2000s weren't so afraid to touch on the topic? There are POC, LGBTQ+ and Feminists of every faith and none.

I haven't watched too many cartoons from the 2010s and I can't think of any episodes with religious themes. This is a bit older, but the only thing I could think of is the cartoon Arthur. The character Francine is Jewish and so is her family. There was an episode where she has a bar mitzvah and one where she is fasting for Yom Kippur.

Francine is a girl so technically it would be a Bat Mitzvah (that's the one for girls). Arthur is another example of Cartoons could address Religious themes in the 90s/2000s but not in the 2010s, an age of so-called diversity and increased representation on the animation front.

If you haven't watched many cartoons from the 2010s, IDK why you are here. I guess the closest thing would be Avatar The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra taking inspiration from Asian Religious/philosophical concepts like Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and Confucianism, but as A:TLA and Korra are set in constructed worlds, they don't literally represent those real world beliefs on-screen.

Rebecca Sugar is Jewish right? Why wasn't there a Steven Universe episode where Steven has a Bar Mitzvah? (If any SU fans want to correct me on this, let me know)

[Voxija]

Maybe it is because modern cartoon writers think talking about religion is like propaganda and will interfere in whatever the parents want their children to believe. That probably isn't what's happening, since I don't think a Hanukkah episode will make a Christian kid want to become Jewish.

Or maybe the writers are terribly politicized and are only unafraid of tackling controversial topics when those topics are ones they agree with. However, this hypothesis assumes most writers for kid's cartoons are leftist. An aspect of this theory is that maybe writers want to teach tolerance and that you shouldn't hate people for stupid reasons, but the cartoon writers don't think religion is a stupid reason to hate people.

Anyway, that situation is sad, not least because I'm Jewish and I would have loved more Jewish characters in my cartoons growing up.

[Port Myreal]

(...) Where are all the Religious Characters and elements in modern cartoons?

Examples of cartoons featuring religious customs:
Christmas
Halloween
Easter
Saint Patrick's Day
Saint Valentine's Day
Día de Muertos
Hindu traditions

[The Imperial Reach]

Religion is a complex topic to tackle. Many adults have problems with it, let alone children. It's no surprise cartoon writers don't want to feel like they're pushing kids into religious beliefs. For most kids religion isn't a major part of their lives so they might assume it will be difficult for children to broach such a vast and complex subject.

(...) Where are all the Religious Characters and elements in modern cartoons?

Examples of cartoons featuring religious customs:
Christmas
Halloween
Easter
Saint Patrick's Day
Saint Valentine's Day
Día de Muertos
Hindu traditions

Halloween was never a religious holiday and other than Hindu traditional holidays all of those holidays have been so heavily secularized that you can hardly call them 'religious holidays' anymore.

[Stanmenistan]

Maybe it is because modern cartoon writers think talking about religion is like propaganda and will interfere in whatever the parents want their children to believe. That probably isn't what's happening, since I don't think a Hanukkah episode will make a Christian kid want to become Jewish.

In my experience, A Rugrats Passover didn't want to make me convert, nor did seeing The Simpsons episodes dealing with Krusty the Clown's Jewish heritage. But it did make me learn a little more about Jewish culture and religious practices. Can't modern cartoons do the same?

maybe the writers are terribly politicized and are only unafraid of tackling controversial topics when those topics are ones they agree with. However, this hypothesis assumes most writers for kid's cartoons are leftist. An aspect of this theory is that maybe writers want to teach tolerance and that you shouldn't hate people for stupid reasons, but the cartoon writers don't think religion is a stupid reason to hate people.

I guess having both Obsessive Anti-SJW conservatives and Militant Secularist Intersectional Radfem SJW Liberals mad at your kids cartoon would be too much, apparently.

Anyway, that situation is sad, not least because I'm Jewish and I would have loved more Jewish characters in my cartoons growing up.

Indeed. Seeing Christianity portrayed in a more positive light in X-Men:TAS helped me accept my Christian heritage. There's always Rugrats, Arthur and The Simpsons for good representation of Judaism in cartoons.

Religion is a complex topic to tackle. Many adults have problems with it, let alone children. It's no surprise cartoon writers don't want to feel like they're pushing kids into religious beliefs. For most kids religion isn't a major part of their lives so they might assume it will be difficult for children to broach such a vast and complex subject.

And yet, kids shows in the 90s and 00s used to explore Religious topics all the time. Why the resistance now? Flick on and watch cartoons on CN, Nick or Netflix and see if the concept of real world religions is even mentioned. The silence is deafening. And just because for most kids religion isn't a major part of their lives, doesn't mean it shouldn't be represented. For some kids, it will be a more major part of their lives and/or may be more relevant at certain times of year (holidays like Christmas, Easter, Hannukah, Passover, Ramadan, Diwali etc.) or at certain events (baptisms, weddings, funerals). Lesbian and Gay parents aren't part of most kids lives either and we see them in modern cartoons all the time (no offense to Lesbian or Gay Parents, I have no problem with the LGBT+ community or with Lesbian or Gay people raising children (as long as they are supportive and treat their child well); just saying most kids are raised by a heterosexual couple of a man and woman (I said most not all); many LGBT+ people are also people of faith, Stonewall says LGBT people of Faith need to be more represented in popular culture, and to quote Esmeralda I thought we all were the children of God)

[The Imperial Reach]

Maybe it is because modern cartoon writers think talking about religion is like propaganda and will interfere in whatever the parents want their children to believe. That probably isn't what's happening, since I don't think a Hanukkah episode will make a Christian kid want to become Jewish.

In my experience, A Rugrats Passover didn't want to make me convert, nor did seeing The Simpsons episodes dealing with Krusty the Clown's Jewish heritage. But it did make me learn a little more about Jewish culture and religious practices. Can't modern cartoons do the same?

maybe the writers are terribly politicized and are only unafraid of tackling controversial topics when those topics are ones they agree with. However, this hypothesis assumes most writers for kid's cartoons are leftist. An aspect of this theory is that maybe writers want to teach tolerance and that you shouldn't hate people for stupid reasons, but the cartoon writers don't think religion is a stupid reason to hate people.

I guess having both Obsessive Anti-SJW conservatives and Militant Secularist Radfem SJW Liberals mad at your kids cartoon would be too much, apparently.

Anyway, that situation is sad, not least because I'm Jewish and I would have loved more Jewish characters in my cartoons growing up.

Indeed. Seeing Christianity portrayed in a more positive light in X-Men:TAS helped me accept my Christian heritage. There's always Rugrats, Arthur and The Simpsons for good representation of Judaism in cartoons.

Religion is a complex topic to tackle. Many adults have problems with it, let alone children. It's no surprise cartoon writers don't want to feel like they're pushing kids into religious beliefs. For most kids religion isn't a major part of their lives so they might assume it will be difficult for children to broach such a vast and complex subject.

And yet, kids shows in the 90s and 00s used to explore Religious topics all the time. Why the resistance now? Flick on and watch cartoons on CN, Nick or Netflix and see if the concept of real world religions is even mentioned. The silence is deafening. And just because for most kids religion isn't a major part of their lives, doesn't mean it shouldn't be represented. For some kids, it will be a more major part of their lives and/or may be more relevant at certain times of year (holidays like Christmas, Easter, Hannukah, Passover, Ramadan, Diwali etc.) or at certain events (baptisms, weddings, funerals). Lesbian and Gay parents aren't part of most kids lives either and we see them in modern cartoons all the time (no offense to Lesbian or Gay Parents, I have no problem with the LGBT+ community or with Lesbian or Gay people raising children (as long as they are supportive and treat their child well); just saying most kids are raised by a heterosexual couple of a man and woman (I said most not all); many LGBT+ people are also people of faith, and to quote Esmeralda I thought we all were the children of God)

I honestly don't know, sorry. You'd have to ask an animator why religion goes so undiscussed in modern children's animation. Maybe they believe it simply isn't a child-friendly topic? Lot of people seem to have a problem with children being brought up religious for some reason, maybe they're trying to avoid a controversy like that?

[Stanmenistan]

(...) Where are all the Religious Characters and elements in modern cartoons?

Examples of cartoons featuring religious customs:
Christmas
Halloween
Easter
Saint Patrick's Day
Saint Valentine's Day
Día de Muertos
Hindu traditions

Let's analyse that for a minute; while you are correct in saying that modern cartoons still have characters celebrating Religious holidays, typically nowadays they do it in the secularized forms with little to no acknowledgement of the cultural and religious history/custom of the holidays. I was focusing mostly on TV animation rather than Animated Feature films or animated shorts, but all three are worth discussing here.

Speaking of, The Book of Life was another great take on Dia De Los Muertos in animation form.

Examples of cartoons featuring religious customs:
Christmas
Halloween
Easter
Saint Patrick's Day
Saint Valentine's Day
Día de Muertos
Hindu traditions

Halloween was never a religious holiday and other than Hindu traditional holidays all of those holidays have been so heavily secularized that you can hardly call them 'religious holidays' anymore.

Whilst overall your statement "all of those holidays have been so heavily secularized that you can hardly call them 'religious holidays' anymore" is something I'd agree with, you did make a few errors.

Halloween was derived from Samhain, a holiday in the religion of the Ancient Celts. When Great Britain was Christianized, it became the Christian holiday All Hallows Eve. So saying Halloween was never a religious holiday is simply inaccurate. Dia De Los Muertos still has some religious connotations too, being derived from a mix of Native Mesoamerican beliefs and Spanish Catholicism. So that's another exception.

Overall, however, it would be nice to see modern cartoons acknowledge both the religious and secular sides of the holidays, like they used to.

[Stanmenistan]

I honestly don't know, sorry. You'd have to ask an animator why religion goes so undiscussed in modern children's animation

No need to apologise. This was meant to provide fans of animation, especially those of the 90s, 2000s and 2010s a way to compare contrast how diversity and representation has gone down in this area, whilst increasing in others (more female characters, more LGBTQ+ characters, more characters of different ethnicities). If I could talk directly to Rebecca Sugar, the writers of Arthur, or the writers of The Loud House, I would. But I can't (for now), so the next best thing is discussing the topic with fellow animation lovers.

Maybe they believe it simply isn't a child-friendly topic?

That's what a lot of people believe about LGBTQ+ people, and cartoons have no problem showing LGBTQ+ characters. Why not show us some religious weddings (whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan or any other creed or faith). There are LGBTQ+ people of every faith as well as none.

Lot of people seem to have a problem with children being brought up religious for some reason, maybe they're trying to avoid a controversy like that?

Only Richard Dawkins and other militant atheists would have a problem with a kids cartoon showing a character going to a Religious Baptism, wedding or Funeral. And again, LGBTQ+ characters in cartoons are also pretty controversial, so the idea "they're trying to avoid a controversy " seems unlikely.

[Latin Islands]

Maybe religion isn't mentioned often out of concern of being mistaken as an educational or propagandist piece of work...or the animators aren't just (that) religious and see no reason to give it prominence...or the moral guardians might raise a racket and bring lawsuits and other forms of controversy...or the networks have a policy that prevents discussing it.

(Solely opinions.)

[Purpelia]

LGBTQ rights, Feminism and Racial tensions are also divisive topics in today's political climate, and we see modern cartoons tackle those all the time. Why the reluctance on Religious diversity, especially when cartoons in the 90s and 2000s weren't so afraid to touch on the topic? There are POC, LGBTQ+ and Feminists of every faith and none.

No, they really aren't. They appear divisive. And to the common man they very well might be. But as far as the powers to be go, and remember these are the people funding media and deciding what gets aired, they've already decided what the "correct" answer is and that everyone who disagrees should just be shouted down and beaten into accepting it. Religion on the other hand is far more problematic.

[Stanmenistan]

Maybe religion isn't mentioned often out of concern of being mistaken as an educational or propagandist piece of work

And yet, Two Superhero shows (one from Marvel and one from DC; Not to mention the X-Men:Evolution Holiday Special addressed religious elements), A Disney musical movie, a surreal comedy/slice of life cartoon and a sitcom all used religious elements without the fear of being mistaken as an educational or propagandist piece of work.

or the animators aren't just (that) religious and see no reason to give it prominence...

Well, AFAIK in most cartoons, it's mentioned either around the Holidays (Christmas, Hannukah, Passover, Easter etc.) or other major life events (Baptisms, Weddings, Funerals). Many people will go to Church, Synagogue or other places of Worship during these times even if they do not regularly go to these places.

To quote another 2000s Cartoon:

Fry: You guys worship an unexploded nuclear bomb?!
Vyolet: Yeah, but nobody's that observant. It's mainly a Christmas and Easter thing.

or the moral guardians might raise a racket and bring lawsuits and other forms of controversy...

Isn't freedom of religion a human right? Don't children of all religious backgrounds deserve to see their traditions depicted onscreen?

or the networks have a policy that prevents discussing it.

Well, they sure didn't use to.

(Solely opinions.)

Thank you sir.

[Stanmenistan]

LGBTQ rights, Feminism and Racial tensions are also divisive topics in today's political climate, and we see modern cartoons tackle those all the time. Why the reluctance on Religious diversity, especially when cartoons in the 90s and 2000s weren't so afraid to touch on the topic? There are POC, LGBTQ+ and Feminists of every faith and none.

No, they really aren't. They appear divisive. And to the common man they very well might be.

The difference between merely "appearing divisive" and actually "being divisive" is subjective at best, but more commonly negligible.

But as far as the powers to be go, and remember these are the people funding media and deciding what gets aired, they've already decided what the "correct" answer is and that everyone who disagrees should just be shouted down and beaten into accepting it

Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

For goodness sakes, 71% of African-Americans are Protestant Christians, Mexican Americans are mostly Catholics, 61% of Korean Americans are Protestants, 65% Of Filipino Americans follow Roman Catholicism and another 21% practice Protestantism. There are Christian Feminists and Egalitarians, Jewish Feminists, Muslim Feminists, Mormon Feminists,Buddhist Feminists, Sikh Feminists, Neopagan Feminists and Feminists of other faiths as well. There are LGBTQ+ people of all different faiths as well. Stonewall even says LGBT people of Faith need more representation in popular culture.

Religion on the other hand is far more problematic.

But why? There are many Religions and Spiritualities across the globe. The majority of the world's population practices some form of Religion. Do they not need representation?

[Purpelia]

The difference between merely "appearing divisive" and actually "being divisive" is subjective at best, but more commonly negligible.

Quite the contrary. Many things that appear settled are in fact divisive and controversial, so much so that people loath to bring them up. And many things that appear controversial are in fact settled apart from a small group of very loud loons. Google the "Flat Earth Society" for an example of the latter. Or indeed LGBTQP rights.

Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

For goodness sakes, 71% of African-Americans are Protestant Christians, Mexican Americans are mostly Catholics, 61% of Korean Americans are Protestants, 65% Of Filipino Americans follow Roman Catholicism and another 21% practice Protestantism. There are Christian Feminists and Egalitarians,, Jewish Feminists, Muslim Feminists, Mormon Feminists,Buddhist Feminists, Sikh Feminists, Neopagan Feminists and Feminists of other faiths as well. There are LGBTQ+ people of all different faiths as well. Stonewall even says LGBT people of Faith need more representation in popular culture.

I am going to ignore this as it makes zero sense and I can't figure out why you said it.

But why? There are many Religions and Spiritualities across the globe. The majority of the world's population practices some form of Religion. Do they not need representation?

Because it's something of a special case socially speaking. On one hand it is without doubt that religion does some vary bad things to society and eats it away like a cancer. It's arbitrary rules reduce quality of life for its members. And it promotes a holier than thou attitude that makes said members wish to enforce those rules on others ruining their lives as well. And of course it promotes the sort of us vs them mentality that leads to isms. At the same time however religion means a lot to a lot of people. It is a part of our history, culture, tradition and very being in more ways than even us atheists like to admit. And it is when properly tamed and civilized in many ways perfectly benign and even beneficial. It can promote good morality, charity and social cohesion among other things. This all makes it a thorny subject full of contradictions. And one not easily tacked in a critical sense without offending one or all sides in the debate.

And thus it's simply not an issue we as a society have come to a definitive answer about. Therefore making it "unsafe" to talk about if all you want is to make something for children to cash in on.

[Stanmenistan]

The difference between merely "appearing divisive" and actually "being divisive" is subjective at best, but more commonly negligible.

Quite the contrary. Many things that appear settled are in fact divisive and controversial, so much so that people loath to bring them up. And many things that appear controversial are in fact settled apart from a small group of very loud loons. Google the "Flat Earth Society" for an example of the latter. Or indeed LGBTQP rights.

I know about that. But if cartoon creators are willing to touch on these other topics, whether they merely "appear divisive" or are actually "truly divisive" , why not Religion? There were a few Muslim Characters in the background of We Bare Bears but they weren't main character in any episode AFAIK nor did we see them partake in any Islamic traditions (e.g. Salat and Qibla, Ramadan, Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha, Why she wears a hijab etc).

Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

For goodness sakes, 71% of African-Americans are Protestant Christians, Mexican Americans are mostly Catholics, 61% of Korean Americans are Protestants, 65% Of Filipino Americans follow Roman Catholicism and another 21% practice Protestantism. There are Christian Feminists and Egalitarians,, Jewish Feminists, Muslim Feminists, Mormon Feminists,Buddhist Feminists, Sikh Feminists, Neopagan Feminists and Feminists of other faiths as well. There are LGBTQ+ people of all different faiths as well. Stonewall even says LGBT people of Faith need more representation in popular culture.

I am going to ignore this as it makes zero sense and I can't figure out why you said it

I was just pointing out there are feminist and women of faith, BAME/"Ethnic" people of faith and even Religious LGBTQ+ people. By representing only one side of them, you make them more one-dimensional and inaccurate. You're not showing the world's diversity in full. Watch this video for more explanation.

But why? There are many Religions and Spiritualities across the globe. The majority of the world's population practices some form of Religion. Do they not need representation?

Because it's something of a special case socially speaking. On one hand it is without doubt that religion does some vary bad things to society and eats it away like a cancer. It's arbitrary rules reduce quality of life for its members. And it promotes a holier than thou attitude that makes said members wish to enforce those rules on others ruining their lives as well. And of course it promotes the sort of us vs them mentality that leads to isms. At the same time however religion means a lot to a lot of people. It is a part of our history, culture, tradition and very being in more ways than even us atheists like to admit. And it is when properly tamed and civilized in many ways perfectly benign and even beneficial. It can promote good morality, charity and social cohesion among other things. This all makes it a thorny subject full of contradictions. And one not easily tacked in a critical sense without offending one or all sides in the debate.

And thus it's simply not an issue we as a society have come to a definitive answer about. Therefore making it "unsafe" to talk about if all you want is to make something for children to cash in on.

X-Men The Animated Series and The Hunchback of Notre Dame explored both the negative and positive sides of Religion. Nightcrawler is a devoutly religious hero, being a Mutant Monk, while Brother Reinhardt and the villagers are antagonists and also deeply religious. Both Quasimodo and Esmeralda are portrayed as believers in THOND, but so was main antagonist Frollo. If cartoons in the 1990s could do it, what's stopping modern animation?

[State of Turelisa]

Religion is never seen to be featured in any children's cartoon. Why? Because there's an emergent agenda that aims at creating a new cultural hegemony, an ideal world of celebrated, and indeed encouraged diversity.
A pluralist and moral relativist world (excepting traditionalism, of course) where any sexual perversion is an inalienable aspect of one's identity, and any psychiatric disorder mere 'neurodivergence.'
A progressive culture where religion is superseded by a secular humanist impulse which seeks to advance human autonomy and strives to place the laws of nature within it.
This grotesque vision aims at realising itself through desensitizing propaganda introduced to children in the form of light entertainment, such as that which is displayed below -

[Stanmenistan]

"Religion is never seen to be featured in any children's cartoon"

Well, it was in the 90s and 2000s (see X-Men The Animated Series, Static Shock, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Arthur,Rugrats and Proud Family. It was more ]"Religion is never seen to be featured in any Modern children's cartoon (from the 2010 to today, basically).

My Little Pony went from having the Ponies practice actual Christmas traditions in the 2000s to a Winter Holiday completely detatched from any real world religious connotations (even getting rid of the name Christmas and Xmas (Xmas also has religious connotations behind it, the X being derived from the Greek spelling of Jesus' name and mas being derived from mass, regardless of what crackpots say)) in the 2010s version.

Why? Because religion contradicts an emergent agenda which aims at promoting an ideal world of celebrated, and indeed encouraged diversity, where pluralism (excepting traditionalism, of course) relativism and secular humanism become the dominant cultural hegemony via propaganda introduced to children in the form of desensitizing entertainment

Again, Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

[Purpelia]

I know about that. But if cartoon creators are willing to touch on these other topics, whether they merely "appear divisive" or are actually "truly divisive" , why not Religion? There were a few Muslim Characters in the background of We Bare Bears but they weren't main character in any episode AFAIK nor did we see them partake in any Islamic traditions (e.g. Salat and Qibla, Ramadan, Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha, Why she wears a hijab etc).

Because there is a huge difference between the two. If your work addresses things that are "apparently divisive" but not really than you are progressive and woke or what ever other fancy adjective modern people use to describe someone whose behavior is to be praised. After all you are "addressing" a real "issue". It has all the hero points of addressing a real issue with none of the actual real risk. So including that in your work is an easy and cheap way to earn points. And networks love that because it allows them to earn point as a network.

Real truly divisive issues on the other hand can only ever earn you ire as one half of your audience will be offended because of your message and the other because they don't want to be preached to. Either way you lose. And people with money don't want to lose and thus they don't want to give you the money you need to make your work or let you air it on their network.

I was just pointing out there are feminist and women of faith, BAME/"Ethnic" people of faith and even Religious LGBTQ+ people. By representing only one side of them, you make them more one-dimensional and inaccurate. You're not showing the world's diversity in full. Watch this video for more explanation.

I don't see how that follows from what you said but w/e. It's not something I really care about beyond restating the very obvious. Media is NOT high art. It's NOT some sort of sublime intellectual pursuit. It's commercial entertainment. A consumer good like any other. Right or wrong, just or unjust, even true or false have no meaning in it. All that has meaning is what sells or rather what the people in control of what gets published think sells.

Televised media is plain and simply junk food for the eyes. Just look at Ancient Aliens if you need any more proof of this principal.

X-Men The Animated Series and The Hunchback of Notre Dame explored both the negative and positive sides of Religion. Nightcrawler is a devoutly religious hero, being a Mutant Monk, while Brother Reinhardt and the villagers are antagonists and also deeply religious. Both Quasimodo and Esmeralda are portrayed as believers in THOND, but so was main antagonist Frollo. If cartoons in the 1990s could do it, what's stopping modern animation?

That's showing religion, not addressing it. There is a huge difference.

Unlike with some other topics like homosexuals for example (a group of people so small that statistically you are unlikely to actually meat one) religion is already omnipresent in our lives. Everyone knows about it and everyone knows someone who at least claims to practice it. So just showing it is as devoid of any meaning as showing the sunrise. Addressing religion would mean to question it, to put it in the spotlight and ask difficult questions about it. And you can see why obviously nobody wants to do that.

Again, Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

Note when reading that I am not american and will thus use certain terms such as conservationism NOT in their american meaning but the actual dictionary meaning. As in, conservatism in particular means resistance to change and desire to conserve things as they are. As opposed to the american meaning of "what ever the republicans say".

Actually yes, it very much is. Just not always in the direct way you think. Indeed, the direct clash of some religious fanatics with homosexuals and their ilk is just a secondary and not really important part of the actual clash in question.

In actual fact the two mindsets of religiosity and modern liberalism, where modern is defined as everything started during the Enlightenment and continuing to this day, are simply diametrically opposed. The former emphasizes group belonging and group loyalty and thus encourages certain things such as social conservatism, rigidity of social norms and most importantly preference of a higher purpose as personified by a deity and/or its demands to self indulgence and self actualization. It's all about the group, belonging to the group and the demonstration of loyalty to said group through self deprivation. Rituals such as fasting, circumcision, abstaining from certain foods or alcohol, use of special greetings and gestures, dress or behavioral codes and rituals in general all exist for that purpose.

Modern (again, enlightenment and later) liberalism on the other hand is all about the self. It is about self actualization, self indulgence, individuality ultimately living a happy and productive life in the here and now. That's where the whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness bit comes in. Thus it emphasizes the self over the group, the constant questioning and reevaluation of social norms and ceremonies and ultimately put the self on a pedestal, conceding to the group and its interests only the bare minimum required to ensure prosperity and safety to said self.

Thus the two are intrinsically opposed. The two literally represent philosophical counters to one another. Indeed, modern liberalism first appeared as a direct response to and in direct opposition to religion. And this is why you can have a religion that is fine with homosexuals or what ever other thing you can think up. Indeed you can even have a religion without gods. Just look at Communism or Nationalism who replace god with concepts such as the nation, people or the working class. All of this is because none of those things are not an intrinsically vital part of religion and can thus not represent an actual real threat or disturbance to it in their own right. Rather it is the push for change, the push to question social norms and attitudes and to make right today things that were wrong yesterday which is the threat. Because these run as a direct counter to the conservatism inherent to and arguably central to religion.


TLDR: Liberalism can be summed up as "The individual is king and society should adapt to fit the desires and whims of the individual." where as religion can be summed up as "The group/society is king and the individual should adapt to fit it." And this is why they clash. The modern talk of "social justice" and LGBTQP rights is just the battle of the day and not the reason for the war.

[Snakeden]

I loved the Rugrats specials growing up and thought they were a great kids' intro to Jewish holidays/events. I wouldn't mind at all if modern cartoons brought up different religions now and then--providing there is a reason for them to do so, anyway. A cartoon with humans in a representation of our world would be fine having Christmas; there is, to my knowledge, no Jesus Pony in MLP and therefore no reason to have something called Christmas or talk of mangers and Bethlehem stars or Santas. Changing it to a simple winter holiday was a good move there*; there are multiple winter holidays and there is historical precedent that people stick celebrations in winter as a way to get through the misery of a cold dead season while waiting for spring. And while I'd be okay with some Christian representation, I wouldn't want the existence of religious information in cartoons to only be about Christianity, or to be poorly researched/misinformed representations of non-Christian religions. At that point, the cartoon creators would need to just take all the real world religion back out and try again when they can handle the responsibilities of showcasing multiple kinds of belief systems and doing so correctly.

* I note that I haven't seen MLP before and am going off the one poster's mention, and therefore am assuming they didn't still have the very-clearly-a-Christmas-tree trees and presents and Santa Pony or something. If they did, I'm disappointed.

[Stanmenistan]

I know about that. But if cartoon creators are willing to touch on these other topics, whether they merely "appear divisive" or are actually "truly divisive" , why not Religion? There were a few Muslim Characters in the background of We Bare Bears but they weren't main character in any episode AFAIK nor did we see them partake in any Islamic traditions (e.g. Salat and Qibla, Ramadan, Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha, Why she wears a hijab etc).

Because there is a huge difference between the two. If your work addresses things that are "apparently divisive" but not really than you are progressive and woke or what ever other fancy adjective modern people use to describe someone whose behavior is to be praised. After all you are "addressing" a real "issue". It has all the hero points of addressing a real issue with none of the actual real risk. So including that in your work is an easy and cheap way to earn points. And networks love that because it allows them to earn point as a network.

Real truly divisive issues on the other hand can only ever earn you ire as one half of your audience will be offended because of your message and the other because they don't want to be preached to. Either way you lose. And people with money don't want to lose and thus they don't want to give you the money you need to make your work or let you air it on their network.

The difference between being actually divisive and truly divisive seems semantic IMO. Don't all these Liberal Hipsters support Muslims? The least these cartoons do could be acknowledging the history and traditions of the Religion itself.

I was just pointing out there are feminist and women of faith, BAME/"Ethnic" people of faith and even Religious LGBTQ+ people. By representing only one side of them, you make them more one-dimensional and inaccurate. You're not showing the world's diversity in full. Watch this video for more explanation.

I don't see how that follows from what you said but w/e. It's not something I really care about beyond restating the very obvious. Media is NOT high art. It's NOT some sort of sublime intellectual pursuit. It's commercial entertainment. A consumer good like any other. Right or wrong, just or unjust, even true or false have no meaning in it. All that has meaning is what sells or rather what the people in control of what gets published think sells.

Televised media is plain and simply junk food for the eyes. Just look at Ancient Aliens if you need any more proof of this principal

No reason something can't be both commercial entertainment and have some deeper meaning or message. My Little Pony, Equestria Girls, Monster High, Ever After High, DC Superhero Girls 2015 and various other toyetic cartoons may be merchandise driven, but they also try to have morals and messages (often in metaphor form) that viewers can apply to their everyday lives. They show disputes between Friends, parental and peer pressure,

X-Men The Animated Series and The Hunchback of Notre Dame explored both the negative and positive sides of Religion. Nightcrawler is a devoutly religious hero, being a Mutant Monk, while Brother Reinhardt and the villagers are antagonists and also deeply religious. Both Quasimodo and Esmeralda are portrayed as believers in THOND, but so was main antagonist Frollo. If cartoons in the 1990s could do it, what's stopping modern animation?

That's showing religion, not addressing it. There is a huge difference.

Again, I don't get your semantic difference here. What is the difference between "showing" and "addressing"?

I'd just like to see some acknowledgment of the subject of Religion in modern animation, which could take the form of either "showing" or "addressing" from your POV.

Unlike with some other topics like homosexuals for example (a group of people so small that statistically you are unlikely to actually meat one) religion is already omnipresent in our lives. Everyone knows about it and everyone knows someone who at least claims to practice it. So just showing it is as devoid of any meaning as showing the sunrise. Addressing religion would mean to question it, to put it in the spotlight and ask difficult questions about it. And you can see why obviously nobody wants to do that

LGB People are approximately 4.5% of the Cisgender population, Trans people are 0.6%. But they are more open and more acknowledged in today's society. And again, many LGBTQ+ people are Religious.

Again, Liberal, Pro-LGBT+, Pro-Feminist, Pro-Ethnic Diverse Representation=/=Anti-Religious.

Note when reading that I am not american and will thus use certain terms such as conservationism NOT in their american meaning but the actual dictionary meaning. As in, conservatism in particular means resistance to change and desire to conserve things as they are. As opposed to the american meaning of "what ever the republicans say".

Actually yes, it very much is. Just not always in the direct way you think. Indeed, the direct clash of some religious fanatics with homosexuals and their ilk is just a secondary and not really important part of the actual clash in question.

In actual fact the two mindsets of religiosity and modern liberalism, where modern is defined as everything started during the Enlightenment and continuing to this day, are simply diametrically opposed. The former emphasizes group belonging and group loyalty and thus encourages certain things such as social conservatism, rigidity of social norms and most importantly preference of a higher purpose as personified by a deity and/or its demands to self indulgence and self actualization. It's all about the group, belonging to the group and the demonstration of loyalty to said group through self deprivation. Rituals such as fasting, circumcision, abstaining from certain foods or alcohol, use of special greetings and gestures, dress or behavioral codes and rituals in general all exist for that purpose.

Modern (again, enlightenment and later) liberalism on the other hand is all about the self. It is about self actualization, self indulgence, individuality ultimately living a happy and productive life in the here and now. That's where the whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness bit comes in. Thus it emphasizes the self over the group, the constant questioning and reevaluation of social norms and ceremonies and ultimately put the self on a pedestal, conceding to the group and its interests only the bare minimum required to ensure prosperity and safety to said self.

Thus the two are intrinsically opposed. The two literally represent philosophical counters to one another. Indeed, modern liberalism first appeared as a direct response to and in direct opposition to religion. And this is why you can have a religion that is fine with homosexuals or what ever other thing you can think up. Indeed you can even have a religion without gods. Just look at Communism or Nationalism who replace god with concepts such as the nation, people or the working class. All of this is because none of those things are not an intrinsically vital part of religion and can thus not represent an actual real threat or disturbance to it in their own right. Rather it is the push for change, the push to question social norms and attitudes and to make right today things that were wrong yesterday which is the threat. Because these run as a direct counter to the conservatism inherent to and arguably central to religion.


TLDR: Liberalism can be summed up as "The individual is king and society should adapt to fit the desires and whims of the individual." where as religion can be summed up as "The group/society is king and the individual should adapt to fit it." And this is why they clash. The modern talk of "social justice" and LGBTQP rights is just the battle of the day and not the reason for the war.

Yes, I'm very aware of the schism between Enlightment and Romanticist Philosophers, and its continued influence on the modern day.

Regardless, lots of Pro-Social Justice types support Islam and the freedom of Muslims as well as other minority religions (or rather, Religions which are minorities in the West; Islam and Hinduism may be minor Religions in the Western World, but on a global scale they are two of the most popular) to practice their beliefs. And many Religions are highly individualistic. For example, People in Western countries tend to be more individualistic than communitarian. The authors of one study proposed that this difference is due in part to the influence of the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. They pointed specifically to its bans on incest, cousin marriage, adoption, and remarriage, and its promotion of the nuclear family over the extended family.

The Legend of Aang and The Legend of Korra drew much of its storytelling inspiration from various South Asian, Southeast Asian and East Asian religious systems/spiritualities and/or philosophies (though it should be pointed out that there is no clear distinction between the two in Eastern thought) such as Shintoism, Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism. But this was filtered through a secondary world setting, decoupling them from real world.

Why not show us genuinely Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Neopagan etc. characters in modern cartoons, practicing their holidays and other beliefs? It doesn't need to be in every moment or every episode, but more often, please! In modern animation, the silence is deafening.