PDX Games IX: Western Pre-Turkic Empire

[Ifreann]

You try keeping a mob of pissed off people under control when they see banners on the horizon.
Not to mention that "friendly" fire has always been a thing.

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

I don't think that revolting peasants have a hierarchical military structure. I think it's more that people get mad and wreck shit up.

[Danubian Peoples]

Does anyone know what happens if you seize the Byzantine Empire as an Emperor/empress? As in, get a claim to the title and press it? I know that the Byzz Empire has restrictions on having other Empire-level titles (can't set as primary, stuff like that). Want to know for future reference. Oh and because I may be able to snag some acheivements in my Maghreb game.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You try keeping a mob of pissed off people under control when they see banners on the horizon.
Not to mention that "friendly" fire has always been a thing.

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

Do you think Byzantines were blond white people? Do you think the first thing that distinguishes Romans from Muslims in the Middle Ages is skin colour?

You and I need to have a talk about historical accuracy...

[North German Realm]

You try keeping a mob of pissed off people under control when they see banners on the horizon.
Not to mention that "friendly" fire has always been a thing.

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

The problem is, you're mistaking peasant revolts and popular uprisings with military-grade civil wars. This isn't some Barons' War where the Barons recognize the French are their friends. This is a bunch of pissed off people looking for blood before they are inevitably all nailed to crosses on the roads to Rome.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Shoutout the 19k Seljuk rebels who marched into my kingdom and slaughtered 9/10ths of my army for seemingly no reason then went back in. Not even fighting the seljuks so its not a mutual conflict.

It's because Paradox - for some fucking reason - thinks rebels should be hostile to everybody, not just the people they're rebelling against.

Why would Orthodox rebels rising up against Sunni rulers be hostile to Orthodox rulers? It makes no sense. I'd love to give them a fucking hand, but they want to kill me on sight for some unexplainable reason.

My army replenished quite quickly enough actually and i was able to win the war i was fighting against another sunni faction in Arabia so it wasnt too bad. Still fucking annoying tho.

[Bralia]

Some interesting development insights are coming along with the Stellaris patch notes in this Dev Diary.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Stellaris Federations Breakdown video

The guy narrating the juggernaut and mega ship yard is evil. Just look at him and how he talks. Evil.

[Bralia]

Stellaris Federations Breakdown video

The guy narrating the juggernaut and mega ship yard is evil. Just look at him and how he talks. Evil.

Seems normal to me. I'm concerned about the last guy holding a Blorg in his hand. Man screams filthy fucking xeno-lover.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ive never been soo attached to this little icon as i am now. I took on the Seljuks head on and beat them to capture Mecca and Medina, moral authority for Shia went from 8% to 76% and i formed the Shia Caliphate.


Yeah bois, maybe i can finally convert a province now and stop these damn heretics.


Germany is indeed at it again

[Dome Artan]

(Image)

Ive never been soo attached to this little icon as i am now. I took on the Seljuks head on and beat them to capture Mecca and Medina, moral authority for Shia went from 8% to 76% and i formed the Shia Caliphate.


Yeah bois, maybe i can finally convert a province now and stop these damn heretics.


Germany is indeed at it again

Stick it to em Swabia

[Slutsk Horde]

(Image)

Ive never been soo attached to this little icon as i am now. I took on the Seljuks head on and beat them to capture Mecca and Medina, moral authority for Shia went from 8% to 76% and i formed the Shia Caliphate.


Yeah bois, maybe i can finally convert a province now and stop these damn heretics.


Germany is indeed at it again

Thocomer?

[Ism]

Stellaris Federations Breakdown video

The guy narrating the juggernaut and mega ship yard is evil. Just look at him and how he talks. Evil.

Seems normal to me. I'm concerned about the last guy holding a Blorg in his hand. Man screams filthy fucking xeno-lover.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[The Huskar Social Union]

(Image)

Ive never been soo attached to this little icon as i am now. I took on the Seljuks head on and beat them to capture Mecca and Medina, moral authority for Shia went from 8% to 76% and i formed the Shia Caliphate.


Yeah bois, maybe i can finally convert a province now and stop these damn heretics.


Germany is indeed at it again

Thocomer?

Its a nomadic Realm, has a bunch of tributaries.

[The Imperial Reach]

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

again you ignore the history of friendly fire. It's NEVER that straight forward.

Naz, we're talking about a time when massive armies moved at a snails pace and showed everyone within a 50 mile radius who they were by the sigils on their flags. Friendly fire in the heat of battle is one thing; there's plenty of fucks running around trying to kill each other, the adrenaline is pushing you into to survival mode, and you've got so much blood and dirt in your eyes you're not even sure if you're swinging at a bear or just a very fat and hairy man.

But you have to be a special kind of stupid to look at a bunch of guys who look absolutely nothing like your enemy and think "baddies!".

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

I don't think that revolting peasants have a hierarchical military structure. I think it's more that people get mad and wreck shit up.

Which is why regular provincial peasant revolts being hostile to everyone makes perfect sense. People who start rioting because their local count didn't burn that ugly woman they thought was a witch are clearly not very reasonable nor intelligent.

Kingdom liberation and religious liberation revolts, however, are another story entirely. Such a uniformed purpose requires proper leadership and clearly defined goals. Why would Miaphysite Christians - who've risen up against an oppressive Sunni ruler that has seen fit to try and punish them for their religious beliefs - be hostile to fellow Miaphysite Christians? More importantly, why can't a Miaphysite ruler sympathetic to their cause send a messenger with an offer of aid? It makes no sense.

Why would Berbers rebelling against a foreign, Bedouin occupation not accept aid from their fellow Berbers in this endeavor?

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

Do you think Byzantines were blond white people? Do you think the first thing that distinguishes Romans from Muslims in the Middle Ages is skin colour?

You and I need to have a talk about historical accuracy...

I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world Arabs and Greeks look nothing alike. That doesn't mean Byzantines were tall, pale, golden-haired Nords but you'd have to be half-blind to confuse one with a fucking Arabian.

I don't think the first thing that distinguishes Romans from Muslims in the Middle Ages is skin color, no. But that's probably because the Middle Ages only happened when Romans stopped being a thing and Islam isn't a race.

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

The problem is, you're mistaking peasant revolts and popular uprisings with military-grade civil wars. This isn't some Barons' War where the Barons recognize the French are their friends. This is a bunch of pissed off people looking for blood before they are inevitably all nailed to crosses on the roads to Rome.

Comparing the Third Servile War to the peasant revolts in CKII isn't very apt, imo. The former occurred when furious slaves - who outnumbered their masters significantly and had grown sick of mistreatment by them - rebelled and tried to either find their freedom or exact vengeance.

The latter occurs whenever you ban performers from local festivals.

And again, for regular peasant revolts it makes sense. For kingdom & religious liberation it does not.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Alright ive given up on this monarch journey, i got gold in two of the challenges, but the one to control Yemen is doing my head, i have no idea if im doing it correctly or not as the last time i did a challenge like this i had to literally have every barony under my control and im getting a bit sick and tired of having to crack down on that over and over and im not doing it for 100 years.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world Arabs and Greeks look nothing alike. That doesn't mean Byzantines were tall, pale, golden-haired Nords but you'd have to be half-blind to confuse one with a fucking Arabian.

I don't think the first thing that distinguishes Romans from Muslims in the Middle Ages is skin color, no. But that's probably because the Middle Ages only happened when Romans stopped being a thing and Islam isn't a race.

Islam is not a race, you say, after using Arabs as a Muslim stand-in.

Comparing modern-day Greeks and Arabs as a way to compare old Byzantine Romans and Medieval Muslims is also not really academic, is it?

And you insult me, sir. The Byzantines continued to call themself Roman until the day Constantinople was taken.

[The Imperial Reach]

I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world Arabs and Greeks look nothing alike. That doesn't mean Byzantines were tall, pale, golden-haired Nords but you'd have to be half-blind to confuse one with a fucking Arabian.

I don't think the first thing that distinguishes Romans from Muslims in the Middle Ages is skin color, no. But that's probably because the Middle Ages only happened when Romans stopped being a thing and Islam isn't a race.

Islam is not a race, you say, after using Arabs as a Muslim stand-in.

Comparing modern-day Greeks and Arabs as a way to compare old Byzantine Romans and Medieval Muslims is also not really academic, is it?

And you insult me, sir. The Byzantines continued to call themself Roman until the day Constantinople was taken.

It wouldn't quite make much sense for medieval peasants to say something like "Byzantine Empire" and "Arabs", now would it? The dated terminology was entirely in-character. I'm sorry if something that was so clearly obvious managed to pass right over your head.

And if you have a time machine that can take us back to 1081 so we can see how closely Greeks and Arabs looked alike then by all means let's go. Until then I'm going by depictions of the two and, no, sorry, not seeing any resemblance.

[Genivaria]

"Sir, an army approaches!"

"What is their complexion?"

"Fair."

"The color of their hair?"

"Fair."

"How are they dressed?"

"Eastern Roman."

"What do their banners bear?"

"Images of Christ, symbols of the Eastern Roman Empire, and Christian Crosses."

"From where are they coming?"

"The border with the Eastern Roman Empire."

"Well, it's obvious they're filthy Mahomedans. Let's go slay the whole lot of 'em."

The problem is, you're mistaking peasant revolts and popular uprisings with military-grade civil wars. This isn't some Barons' War where the Barons recognize the French are their friends. This is a bunch of pissed off people looking for blood before they are inevitably all nailed to crosses on the roads to Rome.

I mean perhaps but you're also talking about a group of people who probably recognize their fellow religious folk across the border as kin not as an enemy.

[Danubian Peoples]

Speaking of this color stuff you guys are discussing, do you find it hard to differentiate between Crusader Kings 2's various face packs? Because I do. Despite the insane number of face packs that apply to races in the Europe region, all of it inevitably gets lost to me for some reason. All I know is that the Greeks start looking more hip in the 900s and the Germans have weird hats. And my marriage strats of taking the random genius bastard in France over the local king's child is not helping.

[Renoa]

Speaking of this color stuff you guys are discussing, do you find it hard to differentiate between Crusader Kings 2's various face packs? Because I do. Despite the insane number of face packs that apply to races in the Europe region, all of it inevitably gets lost to me for some reason. All I know is that the Greeks start looking more hip in the 900s and the Germans have weird hats. And my marriage strats of taking the random genius bastard in France over the local king's child is not helping.

I can't tell Anglo, French, or German portraits from one another, but most of the rest are pretty easy. Celts look like troll dolls, Iberians look like baked potatoes, Norse men and women all look like the exact same person with different hair cuts and dyes, Russians look like what you would expect from a caricature of Russians, Turks look like wax dolls, and Italians look like a Sylvester Stallone figurine that was left too close to an open flame.

[Bralia]

A universal translator has been applied to the Stellaris patch notes.

[Danubian Peoples]

1. If possible, get the Ark of the Covenant. It usually spawns in Ethiopia in the inventory of a random courtier. If the guy is in your court, then you simply find reason to kill him and inherit the Ark for yourself. If not, then invite him via favor or bribe and kill him then. Don't worry, it won't melt your face off.
2.The Iron Crown of Lombardy is laughably easy to come buy sometimes. While there are other historical artifacts that frequently fall into dissuse due to faction demands and civil wars, the Iron Crown is the only one that has no restrictions. All you need to do is invite its current holder to your court, and kill them. You can also get an event to extract the nail from within the Iron Crown, though this has a 10% chance to break it.
3.Monastic societies. They'll frequently put artifacts on display, which can be used as opportunities to steal the artifact in question. As a christian, you get everything from the Crown of Thorns to the Image of Edessa using this. Unfortunately you'll either need to shell out loads of cash (price scales with income) or 'grab it and run' be confronted and made to duel someone. And even if you win the duel, you can still get caught.
4.Hermetics. AAside from Magnum Opuses and Ingredients, you'll ocassionally get an event where you and some of your Hermetic buddies get together and invent something. It can be either learning, prosperity or warfare focused. And you'll either get a powerful province modifier or an artifact. Since this guide assumes you want the latter, simply choose which focus you want and go with the risky option. You'll guns and compasses with this.
5.There are 2 bloodlines which are useful for this. One of them can be gained via legendary journey, and the other can be forged by winning 15 wars. Both increase the likelihood that your character will loot artifacts in sieges I assume. Since legendary journeys are risky and random, it's much easier to found the foreign wars one. Just don't be eligible for the Warrior Philosopher or the True Christian Knight bloodline, and you'll get it 100%.

[North German Realm]

1. If possible, get the Ark of the Covenant. It usually spawns in Ethiopia in the inventory of a random courtier. If the guy is in your court, then you simply find reason to kill him and inherit the Ark for yourself. If not, then invite him via favor or bribe and kill him then. Don't worry, it won't melt your face off.
2.The Iron Crown of Lombardy is laughably easy to come buy sometimes. While there are other historical artifacts that frequently fall into dissuse due to faction demands and civil wars, the Iron Crown is the only one that has no restrictions. All you need to do is invite its current holder to your court, and kill them. You can also get an event to extract the nail from within the Iron Crown, though this has a 10% chance to break it.
3.Monastic societies. They'll frequently put artifacts on display, which can be used as opportunities to steal the artifact in question. As a christian, you get everything from the Crown of Thorns to the Image of Edessa using this. Unfortunately you'll either need to shell out loads of cash (price scales with income) or 'grab it and run' be confronted and made to duel someone. And even if you win the duel, you can still get caught.
4.Hermetics. AAside from Magnum Opuses and Ingredients, you'll ocassionally get an event where you and some of your Hermetic buddies get together and invent something. It can be either learning, prosperity or warfare focused. And you'll either get a powerful province modifier or an artifact. Since this guide assumes you want the latter, simply choose which focus you want and go with the risky option. You'll guns and compasses with this.

To add, you can also join the Wolf Warriors and reach level 2 and fight with 15 foreign lords to get the regular conquest bloodline. Both help with looting artefacts, which is -I've found- a lot more satisfying than inviting and killing people.

[Danubian Peoples]

1. If possible, get the Ark of the Covenant. It usually spawns in Ethiopia in the inventory of a random courtier. If the guy is in your court, then you simply find reason to kill him and inherit the Ark for yourself. If not, then invite him via favor or bribe and kill him then. Don't worry, it won't melt your face off.
2.The Iron Crown of Lombardy is laughably easy to come buy sometimes. While there are other historical artifacts that frequently fall into dissuse due to faction demands and civil wars, the Iron Crown is the only one that has no restrictions. All you need to do is invite its current holder to your court, and kill them. You can also get an event to extract the nail from within the Iron Crown, though this has a 10% chance to break it.
3.Monastic societies. They'll frequently put artifacts on display, which can be used as opportunities to steal the artifact in question. As a christian, you get everything from the Crown of Thorns to the Image of Edessa using this. Unfortunately you'll either need to shell out loads of cash (price scales with income) or 'grab it and run' be confronted and made to duel someone. And even if you win the duel, you can still get caught.
4.Hermetics. AAside from Magnum Opuses and Ingredients, you'll ocassionally get an event where you and some of your Hermetic buddies get together and invent something. It can be either learning, prosperity or warfare focused. And you'll either get a powerful province modifier or an artifact. Since this guide assumes you want the latter, simply choose which focus you want and go with the risky option. You'll guns and compasses with this.

To add, you can also join the Wolf Warriors and reach level 2 and fight with 15 foreign lords to get the regular conquest bloodline. Both help with looting artefacts, which is -I've found- a lot more satisfying than inviting and killing people.

I dunno why, but that fight 15 foreign wars bloodline has been super-easy when playing as a pagan, and not so easy when playing as a christian feudal. I'm guessing it's their OP CBs and the fragmented nature of your targets in most 'play as a pagan' starts. Also many thanks for the addition to the list. Although you can also get a similar bloodline via legendary journey IIRC. Anyway, I will be adding it to the post.

[North German Realm]

I dunno why, but that fight 15 foreign wars bloodline has been super-easy when playing as a pagan, and not so easy when playing as a christian feudal. I'm guessing it's their OP CBs and the fragmented nature of your targets in most 'play as a pagan' starts. Also many thanks for the addition to the list. Although you can also get a similar bloodline via legendary journey IIRC. Anyway, I will be adding it to the post.

It's less due to OP CBs and more due to the fact most pagan realms are small and surrounded by other small pagan realms. So if you play as one of the 867 Denmarks, you're basically surrounded by a bunch of Slavic, Swedish and Norwegian realms, and a single Feudal realm that is under attack by someone 24/7. Its even easier if you're a vassal, because attacking your fellow vassals count as a foreign war. I think.

And yeah, but I prefer not to take the Legendary Journey bloodline, because it basically blocks you from getting any ambition bloodlines as long as you have it.