PDOX Games VIII: Communism Will Win

[Bralia]

Johan's fuckin' BACK, baby! I've missed the days when EUIV devs were communicative and teaser-prolific.

'Marines force limit'

Do... Can we make army-ships now then that can go on both coastal land and sea then?

I suspect we're going to get a special unit type that works like HoI4's marines in terms of their ability and how limited they are.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Oh no, who's going to take over I:R then?

[Ifreann]

Johan's fuckin' BACK, baby! I've missed the days when EUIV devs were communicative and teaser-prolific.

'Marines force limit'

Do... Can we make army-ships now then that can go on both coastal land and sea then?

SPEHSS MEHREENS

[The Huskar Social Union]

'Marines force limit'

Do... Can we make army-ships now then that can go on both coastal land and sea then?

SPEHSS MEHREENS

TODAY THE ENEMY IS AT OUR DOOR

[Ifreann]

SPEHSS MEHREENS

TODAY THE ENEMY IS AT OUR DOOR

- a French general pointing across the Channel

[Auze]

I just hope the Dominicans, who are stated to be inquisitors, would actually do some inquisitioning and not just be a worse copy of the Benedictines.

Inquisitions started after the timeframe of Crusader Kings though. That said, I do find it funny that Dominicans sometimes get burnt at the stake by Christian Rulers because reasons lmao.

While the Spanish Inquisition didn't start until 1492, the first inquisitions appeared in France in the 12th century. Besides that, if Devil Worshipers can take over half of the medieval world, Inquisitions can start a little early. Maybe make it so that if Devil Worshipers are activated in game, so are Dominicans. Otherwise, Dominicans appear in 1100s by event, not unlike the how the Assassins work. Right now, societies aren't so much "Monks and Mystics" as they are "2 identical groups of Monks and a helluva lot of Mystics".

My court chaplain said they worshipped the devil. What am I gonna do? Not believe him?

Or even worse. Tolerate other religions and the beliefs the followers of that religion hold? Sounds dreadful.

Considering Devil Worshipers are OP monsters that will sacrifice everyone they can, I think in we should probably hold off on the tolerance for a few centuries...

[Xuloqoia]

SPEHSS MEHREENS

TODAY THE ENEMY IS AT OUR DOOR

WE KNOW OUR DUTY AND WE WILL DO IT. WE FIGHT FOR OUR HONOR AS BLOOD RAVENS, AS SPACE MARINES, AND WE FIGHT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR! AND IF WE DIE THIS DAY IN GLORY, WE DIE HEROES' DEATHS, BUT WE SHALL NOT DIE, NO! IT IS THE ENEMY WHO WILL TASTE DEATH AND DEFEAT!

Or something along said lines.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

And Johan immediately drops the bombshell that corruption from territories, something which min-max world conquerors have been petulantly whining about for forever, is being removed.

DEAR GLOB, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

I don't get where CK3 is going with its "make your own degenerate heresy" route. I mean, it's to appeal to the Alabamans, but where is the history?!

I know Paradox is in the business of making sandboxes, but when I play a count of Ulm in 1111 AD, I'm playing a representation of a real person. Sure, there is madness like the Satanists and the supernatural cheese (Aztecs, need I say more), but but the game is firmly grounded in real, actual history and it portrays history more realistically, and with more choices, than pretty much every other game I have played.

In my opinion, CK3's option to create your own heresy that can do anything and everything, and then call it any Abrahamic faith you want, etc. etc. etc., is so far detached from history that it's not worth calling CK3 historically based at all.

Give me one example of a secular RULER that did something like that. A Byzantine Emperor embraced iconoclasm, but it wasn't his invention. Almost all religions that weren't born of schisms and splits and sects were founded by a person without temporal political power (e.g. Zoroaster, the Buddha, Jesus Christ, etc.). By all means, let's have our fun with our Papal Horses and restoration of the Bon Religion as Mongolian Vikings, but please, don't cast aside the fact that you are simulating history.

What is the real life justification for creating your own psychotic heresy? Was this ever done in RL? Is it even remotely plausible?

[Danubian Peoples]

I don't get where CK3 is going with its "make your own degenerate heresy" route. I mean, it's to appeal to the Alabamans, but where is the history?!

I know Paradox is in the business of making sandboxes, but when I play a count of Ulm in 1111 AD, I'm playing a representation of a real person. Sure, there is madness like the Satanists and the supernatural cheese (Aztecs, need I say more), but but the game is firmly grounded in real, actual history and it portrays history more realistically, and with more choices, than pretty much every other game I have played.

In my opinion, CK3's option to create your own heresy that can do anything and everything, and then call it any Abrahamic faith you want, etc. etc. etc., is so far detached from history that it's not worth calling CK3 historically based at all.

Give me one example of a secular RULER that did something like that. A Byzantine Emperor embraced iconoclasm, but it wasn't his invention. Almost all religions that weren't born of schisms and splits and sects were founded by a person without temporal political power (e.g. Zoroaster, the Buddha, Jesus Christ, etc.). By all means, let's have our fun with our Papal Horses and restoration of the Bon Religion as Mongolian Vikings, but please, don't cast aside the fact that you are simulating history.

What is the real life justification for creating your own psychotic heresy? Was this ever done in RL? Is it even remotely plausible?

Well the closest thing to a real ruler doing that would be Henry VIII and the Church of England. I'm not even sure if it counts because

1.The split occured in 1534, well out of the reach of CK2 (and probably CK3)'s end date
2.The grounds for such a split already existed before Henry VIII did so

I'm getting the above info from Wikipedia. You can find the article here.

Anyway, I have a question to ask. Am I a loser if I disable Horse Lords to weaken nomads? I'm just tired of Khazars, Magyars, whatevers waltzing onto Kiev, St Petersburg, wherever and wrecking up my stuff. I mean, I kinda feel deficient when i play CK2. Just now I had a game end horribly because nomads raided my lands into nonexistence, meaning I somehow had no troops which encouraged my vassals to revolt. I had reformed Slavic by then and the leader of the revolt was an Old Slavic heretic (plus I was the religious head, Temporal), but for whatever reason my Holy Order just kept disappearing on me.. They had 2000 troops compared to my 300. My max troop count was 4000. Maybe I'm just a wimp, a failure, a degenerate. I mean, a competent person whose right in their mind wouldn't let this happen. I mean, I can't even read the AI correctly half the time. A different run had my spymaster assasinate me, despite my being his friend. Another time my court physician turned traitor despite him having 58 opinion. He of course disfigured me and therefore offed me. Even then he was 'treating' me for cancer, which I swear should not be catchable at 22. Am I retarded or something? I read on a Reddit thread that this game doesn't deal unwinnable hands and that any and all situation is supposed to be winnable. In other words, human error is the only fault. I'm the only fault. I'm the idiot. Is that the case? And if so should I just give up?

[TURTLESHROOM II]

EUIV's Women in History Free DLC was integrated into the base game in a surprise patch and, naturally, the sexists have come out in droves.

Do you seriously think the problem people had with "Women In History" was because it gave examples of actual people that made actual contributions to mankind? Of course not, no one's going to deny that behind every great man is a greater woman, and that women have long performed behind the scenes roles that made all the difference. (My maternal grandmother and my mother's father's mother both are archetypes of this "silent world changing servant". Without either of them, my family would be nowhere close to what it is.)

The problem with the "Women In History" thing was not that it talked about women in history. I for one liked the inclusions and learned a lot in the Events they provided. Some of the Events, such as getting a female general or a woman staging a coup d'état, made for an interesting game indeed, and again, I always love to learn about new things.

The problem was that, 1) it was a DLC and made to look important instead of simply adding in the new Events into the base code, 2) that it is another example of identity politics separating the accomplishments of X minority from the eternally expendable, generic, white man instead, and 3) they announced it like a big deal, because Paradox has 'gotta get some brownie points with the people whining their game is politically incorrect!

The entire matter was political correctness. If Paradox wasn't trying to make a statement that says "LOOK AT US GUYS WE'RE INCLUSIVE!!1!!1! REPRESENTATION!!!", they would have added all of these Events in silence. Outside of the change log, we'd never know it until we get exciting new Events, pathways, and characters introduced into the fold until we played it.

Someone would then write "Hey, I got a new Event about X WOMAN'S NAME. I'm surprised she was included, she did Y really important thing! That was a really good event!".

That's how it should have been done. Instead, we got showboating, politically correct garbage and yet another ironic example of saying that minorities have to receive special recognition and days set aside for their glorification. This reinforces the idea that they aren't important enough to receive the same breath as a white man. In turn, it reinforces the idea that white men are not special. There will never be an exclusive day for white men. There will never be an award only for whites. Whites must share everything with minorities, but minorities can have their own exclusive day. All should get that treatment, OR none should get that treatment.

The Events were great. It's the way they were delivered that angered people. Get that right.

You don't appease the kind of crowd Paradox tried to appeal to by removing Deus Vult and making a spectacle out of the Women In History Events, and you CERTAINLY don't apologize.

You double down.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Well the closest thing to a real ruler doing that would be Henry VIII and the Church of England. I'm not even sure if it counts because

1.The split occured in 1534, well out of the reach of CK2 (and probably CK3)'s end date
2.The grounds for such a split already existed before Henry VIII did so

I'm getting the above info from Wikipedia. You can find the article here.

No, that totally counts. Good example!

---

Anyway, I have a question to ask. Am I a loser if I disable Horse Lords to weaken nomads? I'm just tired of Khazars, Magyars, whatevers waltzing onto Kiev, St Petersburg, wherever and wrecking up my stuff. I mean, I kinda feel deficient when i play CK2.[/url]

Yes. Utterly. Get good.

but for whatever reason my Holy Order just kept disappearing on me.. They had 2000 troops compared to my 300. My max troop count was 4000.

With the exception of Sunnis against Shi'ites, Holy Orders don't fight members of their religious group unless the enemy also happens to follow a heresy of your religion. They will fight all other religion groups, though.

Maybe I'm just a wimp, a failure, a degenerate. I mean, a competent person whose right in their mind wouldn't let this happen. I mean, I can't even read the AI correctly half the time.

Yes, yes, absolutely not. GET GOOD.

Even then he was 'treating' me for cancer, which I swear should not be catchable at 22.

Cancer has no age, no race, no sex, and no mercy. You can get it at any time, anywhere.

Am I retarded or something?

Not at all. You just need more practice.

I read on a Reddit thread that this game doesn't deal unwinnable hands and that any and all situation is supposed to be winnable.

Incorrect. While it always feels the game is stacked to the player, Paradox asserts that its Random Numbers Game is actually random. You simply get shafted by luck of the draw. Trust me, that happens to me every time I play EU4 and is why I never survive until 1500 AD in most games.

In other words, human error is the only fault. I'm the only fault.

No, you can get shafted due to no fault of your own.

Is that the case? And if so should I just give up?

No, don't give up! Keep trying!

[Fuyujima]

I don't get where CK3 is going with its "make your own degenerate heresy" route. I mean, it's to appeal to the Alabamans, but where is the history?!

Paradox has never cared about history, there's a ton of anachronisms and plain errors in their games about historical religions, events, etc. and that's alright, because most people wouldn't play a 100% historically correct strategy game. You immediately diverge from history the moment you start playing. I have no attachment to anywhere on the CK2 map and I've always been interested in how religions are formed, so this will be much easier than having to mod a new religion in. I assume that for people who don't feel the same way that I do, there will probably be a game rule to turn that option off.

[Danubian Peoples]

Well the closest thing to a real ruler doing that would be Henry VIII and the Church of England. I'm not even sure if it counts because

1.The split occured in 1534, well out of the reach of CK2 (and probably CK3)'s end date
2.The grounds for such a split already existed before Henry VIII did so

I'm getting the above info from Wikipedia. You can find the article here.

No, that totally counts. Good example!

---

Anyway, I have a question to ask. Am I a loser if I disable Horse Lords to weaken nomads? I'm just tired of Khazars, Magyars, whatevers waltzing onto Kiev, St Petersburg, wherever and wrecking up my stuff. I mean, I kinda feel deficient when i play CK2.[/url]

Yes. Utterly. Get good.

but for whatever reason my Holy Order just kept disappearing on me.. They had 2000 troops compared to my 300. My max troop count was 4000.

With the exception of Sunnis against Shi'ites, Holy Orders don't fight members of their religious group unless the enemy also happens to follow a heresy of your religion. They will fight all other religion groups, though.

Maybe I'm just a wimp, a failure, a degenerate. I mean, a competent person whose right in their mind wouldn't let this happen. I mean, I can't even read the AI correctly half the time.

Yes, yes, absolutely not. GET GOOD.

Even then he was 'treating' me for cancer, which I swear should not be catchable at 22.

Cancer has no age, no race, no sex, and no mercy. You can get it at any time, anywhere.

Am I retarded or something?

Not at all. You just need more practice.

I read on a Reddit thread that this game doesn't deal unwinnable hands and that any and all situation is supposed to be winnable.

Incorrect. While it always feels the game is stacked to the player, Paradox asserts that its Random Numbers Game is actually random. You simply get shafted by luck of the draw. Trust me, that happens to me every time I play EU4 and is why I never survive until 1500 AD in most games.

In other words, human error is the only fault. I'm the only fault.

No, you can get shafted due to no fault of your own.

Is that the case? And if so should I just give up?

No, don't give up! Keep trying! [/quote]
K, I understand. You can say the game is 'at fault' and not be loser. But I'm gonna need more concrete advice than 'get good.' Like, how do you deal with nomads for instance? They ransack your holdings so hard that's it's not even funny. If it was this IRL then how come places like Russia exist today? Another thing. I mentioned that the leader of the revolt was an Old Slavic heretic. How is that not grounds for a holy order fighting them, especially if I'm the religious head? I'm guessing those were vassal troops who just so happened to not be heretics. That's frankly kinda dumb, but okay I guess.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Paradox has never cared about history, there's a ton of anachronisms and plain errors in their games about historical religions, events, etc.

Never attribute to malice what can attributed to stupidity. Or, in this case, what is simply laziness. It took until this year to add the Qarmatians, which I believe were excluded because they sacked Mecca, which is "offensive".

and that's alright, because most people wouldn't play a 100% historically correct strategy game.

To me, it's about the big picture things and not just the subtleties. It must remain grounded in history, and where it isn't, it either needs to have a good explanation or be one heck of a good time.

You immediately diverge from history the moment you start playing.

Fair enough.

I assume that for people who don't feel the same way that I do, there will probably be a game rule to turn that option off.

I hope so too, but let's be honest, for all my desire to be historical, I know myself well enough to know that I'll be putting in CHRISTIANITY AS A MUSHROOM CULT. That, my good man, has got me FLOORED.

[Serrus]

Also Khurmatza and Mazdaki are other historical examples of the custom-heresy thing.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Also Khurmatza and Mazdaki are other historical examples of the custom-heresy thing.

Those were created by rulers? I'm interested in learning more about that.

[North German Realm]

Inquisitions started after the timeframe of Crusader Kings though. That said, I do find it funny that Dominicans sometimes get burnt at the stake by Christian Rulers because reasons lmao.

While the Spanish Inquisition didn't start until 1492, the first inquisitions appeared in France in the 12th century. Besides that, if Devil Worshipers can take over half of the medieval world, Inquisitions can start a little early. Maybe make it so that if Devil Worshipers are activated in game, so are Dominicans. Otherwise, Dominicans appear in 1100s by event, not unlike the how the Assassins work. Right now, societies aren't so much "Monks and Mystics" as they are "2 identical groups of Monks and a helluva lot of Mystics".

Or even worse. Tolerate other religions and the beliefs the followers of that religion hold? Sounds dreadful.

Considering Devil Worshipers are OP monsters that will sacrifice everyone they can, I think in we should probably hold off on the tolerance for a few centuries...

I mean, fair enough. Mind you, I agree that the two Orders are surprisingly OP (in that they help you stack a fuckload of virtues) but still not as OP as Satanism which essentially lets you kill anything and anyone (nearly) free of charge.

[Purpelia]

I mean, fair enough. Mind you, I agree that the two Orders are surprisingly OP (in that they help you stack a fuckload of virtues) but still not as OP as Satanism which essentially lets you kill anything and anyone (nearly) free of charge.

Have they changed it since I last played? Because all I ever got out of it is my characters getting crazy, deformed or both and generally being ruined.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

While the Spanish Inquisition didn't start until 1492, the first inquisitions appeared in France in the 12th century. Besides that, if Devil Worshipers can take over half of the medieval world, Inquisitions can start a little early. Maybe make it so that if Devil Worshipers are activated in game, so are Dominicans. Otherwise, Dominicans appear in 1100s by event, not unlike the how the Assassins work. Right now, societies aren't so much "Monks and Mystics" as they are "2 identical groups of Monks and a helluva lot of Mystics".

Considering Devil Worshipers are OP monsters that will sacrifice everyone they can, I think in we should probably hold off on the tolerance for a few centuries...

I mean, fair enough. Mind you, I agree that the two Orders are surprisingly OP (in that they help you stack a fuckload of virtues) but still not as OP as Satanism which essentially lets you kill anything and anyone (nearly) free of charge.

Orders have become especially OP since Holy Fury added saints. Getting into an Order just blasts you straight into sainthood, and it's probably the only way to efficiently stack all the variables in your favour.

[North German Realm]

I mean, fair enough. Mind you, I agree that the two Orders are surprisingly OP (in that they help you stack a fuckload of virtues) but still not as OP as Satanism which essentially lets you kill anything and anyone (nearly) free of charge.

Have they changed it since I last played? Because all I ever got out of it is my characters getting crazy, deformed or both and generally being ruined.

I mean it still does that too, but it also helps you get rid of your enemies, quite possibly get wicked saint, and is just cool in RP.

I mean, fair enough. Mind you, I agree that the two Orders are surprisingly OP (in that they help you stack a fuckload of virtues) but still not as OP as Satanism which essentially lets you kill anything and anyone (nearly) free of charge.

Orders have become especially OP since Holy Fury added saints. Getting into an Order just blasts you straight into sainthood, and it's probably the only way to efficiently stack all the variables in your favour.

I mean, they also make sure your wards (i.e. successors) get virtues too. And help with finding friends. And help make you a saint, yes.

On another note, I think my game's bugged. Literally any person who has a bloodline can trace their bloodline to one of my characters who was a Grand Crusader and a Saint. Including people who died before my game started. Including the bloody founders of said bloodlines. Rurik and Ragnarr both are descended from my character who died in the 930s :/
Has anyone faced this problem, and how can I fix it?

[Grenartia]

Have they changed it since I last played? Because all I ever got out of it is my characters getting crazy, deformed or both and generally being ruined.

I mean it still does that too, but it also helps you get rid of your enemies, quite possibly get wicked saint, and is just cool in RP.

Orders have become especially OP since Holy Fury added saints. Getting into an Order just blasts you straight into sainthood, and it's probably the only way to efficiently stack all the variables in your favour.

I mean, they also make sure your wards (i.e. successors) get virtues too. And help with finding friends. And help make you a saint, yes.

On another note, I think my game's bugged. Literally any person who has a bloodline can trace their bloodline to one of my characters who was a Grand Crusader and a Saint. Including people who died before my game started. Including the bloody founders of said bloodlines. Rurik and Ragnarr both are descended from my character who died in the 930s :/
Has anyone faced this problem, and how can I fix it?

Time Travelling Saint with an Incest Fetish.

[North German Realm]

I mean it still does that too, but it also helps you get rid of your enemies, quite possibly get wicked saint, and is just cool in RP.


I mean, they also make sure your wards (i.e. successors) get virtues too. And help with finding friends. And help make you a saint, yes.

On another note, I think my game's bugged. Literally any person who has a bloodline can trace their bloodline to one of my characters who was a Grand Crusader and a Saint. Including people who died before my game started. Including the bloody founders of said bloodlines. Rurik and Ragnarr both are descended from my character who died in the 930s :/
Has anyone faced this problem, and how can I fix it?

Time Travelling Saint with an Incest Fetish.

Interesting as the idea of that is (The guy was actually a Kinslayer who literally brutally massacred seven of his children in duels so his genius youngest child could inherit and then repented and had the Kinslayer Trait removed by paying gold because the Pope was his friend) it doesn't help me fix the bug lol

[Valrifell]

Really bothers me that the game heavily reduces the odds of getting two dynastic saints.

One game I had a relatively mediocre character who cheated on his wife to produce a son months before death and was made a Saint. Unfortunately, my lovely Dominican character who had all the seven virtues and several other redeeming qualities was not made a Saint because of the first loser.

Really ruined my roleplay with the saintly Emperor I was playing as.

[Grenartia]

Really bothers me that the game heavily reduces the odds of getting two dynastic saints.

One game I had a relatively mediocre character who cheated on his wife to produce a son months before death and was made a Saint. Unfortunately, my lovely Dominican character who had all the seven virtues and several other redeeming qualities was not made a Saint because of the first loser.

Really ruined my roleplay with the saintly Emperor I was playing as.

Pope: "You may be good, but you will never be as good as this worthless lump of shit."